The boys are coming home from Iraq

dulobast25

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"That's true if you don't believe it but beat and kill..no just rape and I don't read the media or have "strong contacts" who assure this to me..I live there I saw this"

I'm wasnt saying it wasnt true. But on fox news back in 2004 it was on special report or a guest on fox that his sons would kidnap married women and rape them and drop off the bodies at their front door.

at any rate i dont think that make saddams son any better or worse, i'l glad they are gone. at this point its a distinction without a difference.
I will find a link online about the activites of hios 2 sons and bring it back here..
 

dulobast25

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Jul 14, 2005
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ATTN NICK LOL

"It isn't black and white, it is right and wrong."

Ok, Nick try this on, the iraq war was wrong.

And in some ways strategicallly stupid
.

"Funny, Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, and Peter Jennings didn't say these things. Why don't you see what Iraqi's have to say about it."

Dan, Tom and Peter are members of the media, they are not "THE media"
And i will find archive to support your assertiaons that these 3 men never saiud anything about the activities of saddams sons regarding the rape rooms etc.


If you want to use iraqi word or opinion as a basis for assertions here, we should also ask them if they want the us wrong. The polls show they do..I dont see you holding to polls that support.

"Do yourself a huge favor and learn a little bit about the subject."

Nick lets not start being lofty, it doesnt become you. You havent supported you case with reasonable rationale here, dont start the perosnal stuff becasue most american AND iraqi can see right thru this war and the sum total of the results. Americans and iraqis..folks on both ends by a vast margin regret we went in. Period. Put that in ur pipe an..well smoke it
 

dulobast25

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"You shouldn't. As SupraCentral took out of context, the lord told the Israeli army to run through certain nations. He told them "do not feel guilty over what I am having you do" And you shouldn't either."

oh boy..
uh i do feel guilty to "run thru certain nations"
i just dont feel guilty about killing saddams sons..again the duality thinking is plaguing you, brother

"That is true. Nobody is denying it..."

not ture many repug pundit on foax have denied that. anyone smart knows its true.

"Iraq would like to not have us there permanently. Soldiers do not want to be there permanently. The President does not want them there permanently. But you must finish securing the country before leaving.

Yes like colin powel said, you break it, you buy it..the prob is american didnt want to break it and they didnt want to buy it. They wanted to enter afgh. And when they were convince bin laden was in cahoots with saddam, they were sold a bill of goods and they now feel hoodwinked. And i dont beleive bush doesnt want the soldier there permamnently. C'mon, first it was shock and awe and now its open ended. we are biulding record breaking sized embassies there. I guess that for a temporary stay.. i guess no timetable it due to the temporary nature of the war. uhh yeah. Now whose drinking kool aid?


Quote:
and what has already been to say the least a hatred of western culture anf values has been intensified by our presence in iraq. It was not but has BECOME the forfront of the war on terror.

What is your evidence? I have been there. That isn't what I remember. See the response above.

I dont have a digital readout if thats the evidence you want. Ive met people from there as i'm sure you talked to people while there. The attitude towards western culture was one thing. Out freedom and education opportuniites are aomething altogehter different. I never met someone who wanted to bomb the us or anything that shitty but i will tell you that to folks i have met and studied with ..the view of western culture, let just say frowned up upon to put it mildly.I guess we were attacked on 9-11 becasue we were loved? Hmm sound doubtful. And no they dont hate our freedom. Hatred casued 9-11 and our presence in iraq ha sstirred up a hornets nest. And the more you f-ck with it the more stings you should expect. The more you stir sh-t the more it stinks.


"Why not before? Why couldn't Clinton do it? That is where most of the intelligence came from. Where you doing anything in the 90's besides watching MTV? When he threw out UN weapons inspectors, what did you think. And yes, 9-11 was a wake up. Bush should have been concerned with securing the country, what he is now doing, instead of on the campaign trail. All politicians do it, and only for PR resasons."

Thats precisely my point, if the right blames clinton for doing nothing how can bush not be held responsible, especially if the torch was handed to him. That is logically flawed. Face the fact nick that 9-11 happended on bush's watch, and you cannot have it both ways. Fact of the matter is although plenty of blame can go around, tis happended on bushe watch and buck stop on his desk and he failed to do anything until we were attacked. Maybe has things been different it would have had a diff outcome, but bush did nothing when he entered office and the right that pins it on clinton must also pin it on bush. As far as the intellgence was concerned bush stated he didnt know they would use planes or that that he planned to strike the us..but the memo handed to him b4 9-11 according to condi rice clearly warned him. If he is so clear and absolute, well then then bushs should have went in sooner. That being said, the war in afg was incomplete and our emphasis should have been there. the preemption idea is simply flawed. america doenst support it, the world doesnt either.
Nick, i dont watch videos, as i think they are a waste of time and the content on mtv is simply dissappointing, what our media decency has become is well it is simply distasteful. But please layoff the perosnal attacks. I'm not into mtv or anything like that. I was getting a education and working if you must know....
The weapons inspectors, well hans blix thinks they should have been allow to complete their jobs, but i guess maybe the liberal media fooled me into thinking that he siad that.

"Quote:
If u want to label it as "if it wrere up to liberals saddam would still be in power" that would be ur label. I think what most americans are saying that they like the outcome but not at this cost.

See above."

It must be hot in here what above did u want me to check, gettysberg?

"The DoD report is about 59,000 injured in some way."

thanks for the current update, the number i keep hearing are 20+k seriously injured..i guess seriously injured and injured in some way are vague terms. Point noted

"I don't blame you for wanting their death. It is only natural. As Lucas creation Sidious stated..LOL But vigilantism is not acceptable. Legal course is. And Hussein was in material breach of UN Resolution 1441, for those of you on the left. "

Most american wanted bin laden, not saddam. Most american wanted vengeance, thats what bush wanted. I havent meat a perosn who didnt want bin laden caught or killed. Simple bait and switch. get americans to want bin laden"dead or alive" and then ur surprised folks wanre dbin laden dead or alive. Americans were manipulated into authorizing bush to avenge the 9-11 deaths. Americans aren allowing bush to have this power becasue it is "right "to contian saddam..come on. If vigilantism in non acceptable then bush wouldnt use terma ike dead or alive. 1441 or otherwise the us isnt the lone force to go around and correct the planets wrongs. they are members of the un... and need to act as such. Period. Isnt wasnt bush's decision to make to enforce 1441. and if so again why not when he was elected in huh?
whether the intelligence was flawed or not the inspecotrs would have provided something evident, especally if the intelligence was weak. all the more reason the have let them stay.
 

amd_hcds

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Well For those who think that it's better that the us soldiers go out of iraq the answer is no and for those who think they should stay the answer is no too! Weird but true that's the problem in Iraq all the questions are unanswered and all questions are answered by yes & no in the same time.. If the US forces leave iraq there's gonna be a civil war. If they stay there's never gonna be a goverment that's gonna take control of the country so it's pretty much like if we're moving in a closed circle.
 

rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
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amd_hcds said:
Well For those who think that it's better that the us soldiers go out of iraq the answer is no and for those who think they should stay the answer is no too! Weird but true that's the problem in Iraq all the questions are unanswered and all questions are answered by yes & no in the same time.. If the US forces leave iraq there's gonna be a civil war. If they stay there's never gonna be a goverment that's gonna take control of the country so it's pretty much like if we're moving in a closed circle.

Hmmm. No offense, but it sounds like it's time for the Iraqi people to fight for themselves.
 

dulobast25

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Jul 14, 2005
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"Well For those who think that it's better that the us soldiers go out of iraq the answer is no and for those who think they should stay the answer is no too! Weird but true that's the problem in Iraq all the questions are unanswered and all questions are answered by yes & no in the same time.. If the US forces leave iraq there's gonna be a civil war. If they stay there's never gonna be a goverment that's gonna take control of the country so it's pretty much like if we're moving in a closed circle."

That the most insight ive seen on this thread. Yeah ita a jacked up quagmire, or better saud dilemma..were dammed if we do and damed if we dont. if the govt is unstable we failed it civil war, we fail..we have put ourselfs in a vey tough one...I hope next time we enter a country in this manner we more thourough understanding of just this very type of catch 22 before we go in. Sometime is life ther are no clear cut solutions, someting the right answer is half on each side..this in one such occasion. As contrary to what other peopl on this thread say, with only a few exceptions were ALL atrue american on this thread and nobody here has been trusted with the position to dictate who is american and who isnta true american. Nick even though i dont share your thoughs i feel we share the fact that we are americans that have love of country..
 

dulobast25

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Whos the flip-flopper now, Nick! We have O-reilly and fox news analyist sayignt hat execution of the war was an "F". bill reoilly is saying that the u.s may fail at the mission in iraq. From what i see, the conservatives and libertarians are backtracking fromt his war. Hmm. Maybe you guys are finally coming aroung to what we knoew all along. Eat som humble pie. The point isnt that its goo we r losing in iraq. Whats good is that folks are realizingt the fact that the iraq invasion was flawed from the beginning. It good that the wool has been pulled from our eyes. And now your precious President now is lying again saying that the plan has NEVER been tay the course. And now they are flip-flopping and blaming it on dems..and this was a prase THEY coined themselves. Thats the problem with the 2 word culture. it catches on..to idiots.

Flip-flop
last throws
WMDs
stay the course
fuzzy math
cut- and run

These are example. what idiots like you Nick repeat in clubs and bars and online to repeat, without thought of your own in response to liberals who actually think on their own.
So now the pres is cutting and running from his own strategy and now he want to withdraw troops and now they are talking about a TIMELINE !
jeez. You guys are hypocrits. And now i'm noticing that bush supporters are shutting up. I feel sorry foy those who simply couldnt look past the jingoism. Those who couldnt wake up and smell the hubris, the arrogance of this foreign and domestic policy...
Well Nick. what do you have to say for your pres..who by the way is losing ground weekly on his rating of doing his job..becasue he hasnt done his job since day 1. Finally the country sees his for what he is. Bill frist doesnt even want conservatives to mention and to distance themselves from iraq. LOL Nick I hope you make better choices in ur private life.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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response to liberals who actually think on their own.
Which ones? I don't know any. You regurgitate everything you hear from the LEE's.

Why don't you come out and say that you wish the murdering tyrant was back in power. (Hitler, Stalin, and Hussein)
 

Aaron J Williams

Make It So!!!
Jul 23, 2006
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+100 nick!

amd_hcds - Your posts are always insightful, thank you. The situation is a pickle, no doubt but I am confident that we will leave Iraq a better place than when we arrived.

dulobast25 - You seem to me like a smart, informed person despite your complete inability to spell or construct sentences. Luckily there is a current situation that I would love to hear your solution for, North Korea's nukes. What's your plan? You can go on and on bashing Bush but do you have a better way, a better plan? How would YOU diffuse the North Korean threat which Bill Clinton created while Madeline Albright sipped champagne with Kim Jong Ill?
 

RHDMK3

that's it!
Sep 30, 2006
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What pisses me off about this current administration is that while I was not for going into Iraq originally I think that we'd be doing our fallen comrades & their families a dis-service by "cutting and running", anyhow something that really chaps my ass is that as big of a fuck up as the war is the administration wont admit that they fucked up! This arrogance over this and the fact that people are losing their lives, fathers, sons, husband, wives, etc.. over this really pisses me off.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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Aaron J Williams said:
+100 nick!

amd_hcds - Your posts are always insightful, thank you. The situation is a pickle, no doubt but I am confident that we will leave Iraq a better place than when we arrived.

dulobast25 - You seem to me like a smart, informed person despite your complete inability to spell or construct sentences. Luckily there is a current situation that I would love to hear your solution for, North Korea's nukes. What's your plan? You can go on and on bashing Bush but do you have a better way, a better plan? How would YOU diffuse the North Korean threat which Bill Clinton created while Madeline Albright sipped champagne with Kim Jong Ill?

A pickle?? :nono:

Who actually sold what to N. Korea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qxfbIQPF9w&mode=related&search=
Clinton?? lol...


Who sold WMD's to Saddam??
rummy-saddam-s.jpg
 

dulobast25

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First of all you guys fucked this thing up when we awrned you not to do it. The buskc stops with the pres, not us. And he wont admit he fucked up. It isnt our responsibility to correct the fuck up of those who ignored us in the fisrt place. It is your mess and you need to clean it the hell up. Nice try. So enought with the "unless ur plan is better" speech. You had a chance to listen to reason since your side was in power. With power comes responsibility and now WE have to get us out...and bush saying that the war will be decided by the next president....Bushs words have damned himself.
I figured you pro war, pro bush, pro repubs couldnt address the current status of your pres and the future of this war. Start by answering the questions i asked you way back about the insurgency in its last throes and bush not spending that much time on bin laden etc. Then i will answer your N. korea question.
Face it, the wheels are falling off of bush media spin machine.

North Korea, Iran, and Iraq are all different and should be handled on a case by case basis. The conservative mentallity that "well, its better than to do nothing, or well it's all screwed up and since you didnt agree, than what would you do...etc. Thats besides the point. The facts are we didnt have just reason to go in, it was ill-timed, ill-planned and the american people were led to believe items that were not the case all w/o evidence and this was at the hands of this admin.
Not hes telling us that staying the course was NEVER the plan. Americans all know what he meant and what we heard.
Simply bolt and arrogant. He must feel American are gullible.
 
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Aaron J Williams

Make It So!!!
Jul 23, 2006
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Joel W. said:
A pickle?? :nono:

Who actually sold what to N. Korea...

Clinton?? lol...

Actually, you are right, Clinton didn't sell, he gave North Korea a reactor for free.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/7/164846.shtml

Heavy water reactors produce weapons-grade plutonium. Light water reactors are known as "proliferation-resistant" but they are not "proliferation-proof".

Here's one about John Kerry lying about Madeline Albright lying to congress about Clinton's failed diplomatic agreement with N Korea.
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200310221200.asp

Who set up the framework allowing Rumsfeld to sell reactors to N Korea?
I'll give you a hint - She gave an autographed basketball to Kim Jong Ill.
 

Aaron J Williams

Make It So!!!
Jul 23, 2006
67
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Luck, Wisconsin
dulobast25 said:
Start by answering the questions i asked you way back about the insurgency in its last throes and bush not spending that much time on bin laden etc. Then i will answer your N. korea question.

First off, I couldn't find the questions you are talking about but i'll try to address the quote above. Bush and his people HAVE admitted to mistakes. They are human, unlike your god Bill Clinton.

Cheney made his "last throes" statement because Iraqis held elections, ratified a constitution, and created a government for themselves. Do you not think those things are significant? Are they not a deterrent to insurgents and a comfort to peaceful iraqis?

And while we are on the subject, the "insurgents" are not iraqis for the most part. They are islamic jihadis from all over the world who are there to fight "The Great Satan" and bring sharia law to the rest of the world like their imams told them to. Their stated goal is to convert you to islam by force, enslave you, or kill you.

Why aren't we focusing on Bin Laden instead of Iraq? I don't know for sure. Maybe we can't get him unless we invade Pakistan, Iran, Syria, or wherever he is. Would you advocate invading Pakistan, Iran, Syria, etc? Do you know where Bin Laden is and are hiding the info because you don't want republicans to have a victory before the upcoming elections? Al Queda is in Iraq and we are fighting them in Iraq. Maybe we don't know where he is because he has become a folk hero to muslims and they are hiding him or they are too afraid to give him up. All we know for sure is that God Clinton had several chances to kill him but didn't.
Osama Bin Laden said:
"Allah ordered us in this religion to purify Muslim land of all non-believers… After World War II, the Americans became more aggressive and oppressive, especially in the Muslim world. American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, and not even women and children. They are the ones who used the bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people."
It kinda sounds like you and him share the same view of America, so why would you want him caught?

Unless you have more questions that need answering, feel free to answer my question. What is your plan to stop the North Korean nuclear threat?
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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Washington
Aaron J Williams said:
Actually, you are right, Clinton didn't sell, he gave North Korea a reactor for free.

Actually, your right about me being right, but he did not give them away or sell them...

The 1994 agreement dickered by Clinton's people traded two light-water reactors, paid for by South Korea and Japan, for a halt in North Korean nuclear development that froze that program for eight years. But Bush and crew came to the presidency disparaging, when they didn't outright despise, all things Clinton.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/opinion/15746829.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200310221200.asp
 

dulobast25

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1)
Aaron J Williams said:
First off, I couldn't find the questions you are talking about but i'll try to address the quote above.

1)Oh he said it. When asked if he made a mistake in the 2004 election, Bush said he couldnt think of ONE!
Either hes a liar or disillusioned.
It isnt likely that he was telling the truth and seriously didnt knwo he made mistakes. if so, he is disillusioned becasue we have gained nothing from our invasion.


1) Bush and his people HAVE admitted to mistakes.

2)They are human, unlike your god Bill Clinton.

2)Clinton is not my god. Is Bush yours?
Name a poll that rates Bill Clintons job Approval rating that is below Bushs
Name a person that thinks tha Bush is a smarter pres than Bush
Find an example of how Bush is more wellspoken than Bush
Compare the amount of scandals under Bush V.S. Clinton
When have the admitted mistakes? If they did it was likely to questions that nobody asked.
This doesnt excuse them for hypocracy
If they made mistake, why are they not being held accoutnable
Any mistake Bush made cost much more money, lives, and credibility than anything Clinton did. I dare you find an example otherwise.
Bush also had a chance b-4 9-1 to do something about Bin Laden and he didnt. He got communcation from the outgoin admin and he did nothing with it. condi rice got memos about Bin Laden Striking and nothing was done. And Since 9-11 he hasnt been caught. And we now owe 30K per man, woman and child. name the mistake that Clinton made that exceeds that of Bush. Not to mention, it happended on Bush's watch. The Buck stops there. At what point does personal responsibility and accountability come in?



3)Cheney made his "last throes" statement because Iraqis held elections, ratified a constitution, and created a government for themselves. Do you not think those things are significant? Are they not a deterrent to insurgents and a comfort to peaceful iraqis?

3)Who told you that elections would make the insurgency stop. Who said a constitution and creating a govt would affect or stop the insurgency? First of all, they were wrong..and soldier paid with their lives and we did with out money. Wheres the accountablily. Where are the admissions and the humility?
The CONSERVATIVE told you this. Where was the evidence? The historical precedent? The proof? the rationale? Who made that prediciton? Must have been folk who didnt know what they were talking about. Its evident in both the qualifications and results and planning on all levels of those who made these claims. They can say it wss "significant" but saying it doesnt make it true. Explain how elections stopped or would have stopped the insurgency. This was stupid on all corners. it doesnt matter if i think it was significant. The fact is there is no casual connection between the two. What matters to me is if it was based on fact, consensus, and results. Thats a no on all 3. So i guess i should then support what i knew was a bad decision. What kind of person would I be if saw a mistake b4 it happened and then didnt speak up?

4)And while we are on the subject, the "insurgents" are not iraqis for the most part. They are islamic jihadis from all over the world who are there to fight "The Great Satan"

4)I know the answer but I will ask anyway. Who is the "great satan"
And This begs the question. If electionswere for the iraqi people and iraqi citizens, how were they supposed to stop the insurgency (who are folks from somewhere else, non iraqi, who based on the defintion of an insurgent in addition to your own statements who would have no interest in voting...)
Explain that line of reasoning. that the problem with this admin. they say thinks that sound reasonable to ignorant people. One has nothign to do with the other. Any any explanation to the contrary would be conjuncture.

5)and bring sharia law to the rest of the world like their imams told them to. Their stated goal is to convert you to islam by force, enslave you, or kill you.

5) Why are we there? First was 9-11 was connected with iraq and saddam which was untrue. Next it was WMDS which they didnt have, again proven untrue. Then it was to remove a brutal dictator which didn justufy the cost and american lives. There are brutal dicators all over the world. And if this was the case, it could have been done another way.
Then it was to bring democracy to the iraqi people.
Well the last one sound like what you said above, in a way.
How did we "bring them democracy"? And why?
We hoped democracy would be an example in iraq and then spread.
Well did they ask for it? No. Did we ask them? No. Did we do it by force? yes. And we hoped democracy would spread, so it sounds like we had an ideology that we beleived was superior by our own measure than we wanted to spread and we did it by force becasue if we asked the answer may have been no, so we did it anyway. The goal was to convert them to a democracy, one that is admitedly bade on chrstianity..(ask oreilly, hannity, limbaugg, Bush, chenney and msot bush supporters. So this amount to us forcing our religously based form of rule on other nations witht he intent of thaving them becoome dmocracies like us and doing so by force. Any whether ist 200k or 650k, we did it over thedead bodies of iraqi citizens. The same citizens that want us to leave and feel our presence is making it worse. The facts are bearing this out. The facts also support that we were not welcome there. So we killed a vast number of their population in an attempt to spread out ideology. Death, rule, govt. ideology, certainty, religious belief. Ethnocentrism. Lack of evidence. It all there. As far as enslaving, athough I admit its not slavery, but it certainly isnt freedom when we can scoop up folk who are simply accuse of being insurgent or part of saddams regime and we can torture them, beat them, humiliate them and kill them..and detain them indefiantely, w/o trial or recourse. Sound like lsavery w/o the forced labor. Provide PROOF that we are doing the same thing in a different form.



6)Why aren't we focusing on Bin Laden instead of Iraq? I don't know for sure. Maybe we can't get him unless we invade Pakistan, Iran, Syria, or wherever he is.

6) Nice try. The reason american want bin laden is becasue Bush said hes responsible and clinton admin agrees. Forgive us for not wanting the guy who both admins say casued this to be dead. You know why we aren focused on Bin laden. becasue Bush said he wasnt that concerned about thim. Either hes Stupid, or a Liar. Either he wants bin laden ad said he didnt. Says he didnt but does, or doesnt and was dumb enought to say it, None of which make him presidental material. He the most powerful man in the world for godsakes. The fact is he was in afgahnistan and thats where we could have and should have gotton him. WE ALL SUPPORTED THE AFGH invasion. In that instance there was casual connection. In that case it made sense. It was reasonable. In addition bus jr. said"after all, the man tired to kill my daddy" Either he was telling the truth, lying, or stupid. Any one makes him unfit 2b the most powerful person in the world.

You bring up another point by suggestion that we should invade every country that may have bin laden. Well thats what funny about the "cruel dictator" rationale. We cant go around attackin every nation to root out "evildoers" ru for it or against it? (using bush either or reasoning)
becareful becasue someon who isnt qualified to make such judgements will label you good or evil rather that, a threat or non threat or someone with a diff on opinion.


7)Would you advocate invading Pakistan, Iran, Syria, etc? Do you know where Bin Laden is and are hiding the info because you don't want republicans to have a victory before the upcoming elections?

8)I dont the repubs to win because they havent provided any evidence of security, but rather endless scandal, corruption and lying. now they are lying and telling us about the stay the course is a democrat fed, quote, when they coined the term. Forgive us for holding the repubs to oneliners they have used for propaganda and repetition for over 3 years.
i dont know where he is hiding, do you? What kind of ? Is that? if i did, Iw ould have turned him in to stip this war I am against, becasue that why they claimed we were there..for the 9-11 connection. You accusations dont make sense. It ISNT MY JOB to know where he is. That is Bush's job and the admins job..not mine, not yours.. that why they are im power. They shouldbe held accountbale for finding or not finding bin laden. Its not the Democrats who put us in this in the first place. it your mess, clean it up. If you cant, when we gain power we will be forced to.
Provide PROOF that we are safer (and plase dont say becasue we havent had an attack since 9-11, such statments are logically flawed)


9)Al Queda is in Iraq and we are fighting them in Iraq. Maybe we don't know where he is because he has become a folk hero to muslims and they are hiding him or they are too afraid to give him up. All we know for sure is that God Clinton had several chances to kill him but didn't.

9) That isnt ALL we know. That statement is a lie or you dont follow waht happended b4 and after 9-11. We know much more than that. We know tha tbush had many chance to get him b-4 AND after 9-11 and hasnt. We know he not concerned about him. We know that WMDS are joke worth to him, we know he beleives the major combat operations in iraq have ended. We know they think the insurgents were in the last throes. We know condi rice in her own words amditted she receive a memo b4 9-11 saying that bin laden was to strike us using airplanes and the bush admint did nothing about it. We know the responbility it his, the buck stop there adn it was on his watch. We know that airplanes mad u -turns int he sky and it was allowed to happen and nothing doen about it. We know MANY things. Dont oversimplify this with"all we know is clinton didnt do anything about it."
We are billions of dollars in debt and have nothing to show for it.

10)It kinda sounds like you and him share the same view of America, so why would you want him caught?

10)See here it goes. i may not share your opinion, but that doesnt make me an bin laden the same or similar in ANY fashion. On what basis do you support this nonsense. I Dont agree with a policy and I say so. I see the country growing into a theocracy and a dictatorship and see a shrinking in rights and freedoms..asll over a guy who we havent caught and who the president sasy he doesnt spend that much time on. The correct word for me in a dissnting American. I dont disagree with America. I disagree with the Bush America. This sint the saem country i grew up in. i gre up under carter, regan, bush 41, and clinton and have never seen the changes that i have seen since this man took office.
Has i eve occurred to you that bin laden has his beliefs based on American forign policy? Have you stopped to think that bin laden doesnt hate our freedom? That was a lie, if he did he would have attacked all free nations. The U.S. in unique in that we are powerful adn we make choice based on our self interest. Sometime that interest goes agains the interest of others. it happens eveytday in life. Some accept it, some dont. Some feel tha the U.S. is a threat. The fact is that in sowm way we are perceived that way and it is becasue of our power, influence and foreign policy. Not our freedom. We were attacked becasue we interfere in parts of the world where other religious do not welcome our involvement. Members of those societies decided to attach us to discourage us from our policies. Plain and simple. America does the same thing. But dont lie about it.
What make America special is that the CITIZENS are NOBILE and we trust that the folks we put into offcie will act on our NOBILITY as a nation. My problem is when those who are given power then use in in wasy that make american look like we dont have good intentions and damn anyone who would sheld light on it. Even attack there own. Difference betwwen you and I is i hodl America to a higher std that you. I expect the best and brightest to preside int he white house. I expect war to be counducted brilliantly. And the argument to be posed make utter sense. Logical sence and using reason. i expect the will of the citizens to be SEEN by the world. Not hidden and replace with other agendas. I Expect not to be mislead or lied to. I expect humility and honset from our leaders. i expect them to be the best. I expect them to be able to speak prper english. i expect them no to make inapproprate references to the suffering, or to dissenting voices. No, sir. I want American to be America, Not the land rule by conservatives.

11)Unless you have more questions that need answering, feel free to answer my question. What is your plan to stop the North Korean nuclear threat?

11)Anwer my questions first. If we conclude that they have the ability to make something that can attack us at thsi distance, we tell them that they have 3 choices, talks, sanctions, or disarm by force. In that order.

If they tell us to fuck off, we send in inspectors.
If they refuse, then we send in military to accompany inspectors.
if we are attacked then we threaten to wage war.
problem is that we have the 150K soldier in iraq. Call it what you want but we do. This puts us in a bad predicament. but thsi should have been thought of BEFORE we committed this amt of solders to one place. That why we are supposed to but qualified people in office to make thes predicitons. Again, they miscalculated. Nevertheless thats the route i would take. If it failed becasue they were not intimidated, it is likely becasue we are int he position to make demands as the US normally is. The world doesnt see us and good decision makers anymore. They see us as a giant who speaks loudly and has a big stick but doesnt have the wisdom to know how to use it...rather than powerful but int he hands of wisdom. WE HAVENT SEEN WISDOM IN THIS WAR. We havent seen wisodm since reagan, bush 41 and clinton.
 

rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
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dulobast25 said:
1)
If they tell us to fuck off, we send in inspectors.
That happened, they kept the inspectors out IIRC
dulobast25 said:
If they refuse, then we send in military to accompany inspectors.
Hmmm, what exactly do you mean by this? Are you advocating sending in a battalion, or even brigade sized element into Iraq by themselves? What do you think the Republican Guard would have done to that element? Further, do you have any idea of the size of the required support element it would take to move said element the 450 miles from Kuwait to Bagdad? I don't think you do.

Your premise is bunk.
dulobast25 said:
if we are attacked then we threaten to wage war.
What about the element that you had sent on this retarded mission? Lambs to the slaughter, I guess.....
dulobast25 said:
problem is that we have the 150K soldier in iraq. Call it what you want but we do. This puts us in a bad predicament. but thsi should have been thought of BEFORE we committed this amt of solders to one place. That why we are supposed to but qualified people in office to make thes predicitons. Again, they miscalculated. Nevertheless thats the route i would take. If it failed becasue they were not intimidated, it is likely becasue we are int he position to make demands as the US normally is. The world doesnt see us and good decision makers anymore. They see us as a giant who speaks loudly and has a big stick but doesnt have the wisdom to know how to use it...rather than powerful but int he hands of wisdom. WE HAVENT SEEN WISDOM IN THIS WAR. We havent seen wisodm since reagan, bush 41 and clinton.

I don't understand your point....at all.