Stock IC limit Q's

[Pantaloon007]

87 5spd
3" BIC recirc
3" test pipe
3" exhaust to ebay fart can
MBC set at 9psi
K&N filter/adapter
no fuel upgrades
Car runs excellent, no overheating, idles perfect, have done all prevent. maint/tune up stuff. 130K on original motor.

I have an eManage w/ inj. harness ready to go in, and I have a shitload of 2" and 2 1/2" IC piping laying around from past projects also ready to go in. I'm looking at getting a WB before I do this next layer of work.

My question is once I put in the piping, eManage, WB, and turn up the MBC to ~12psi, can I keep the stock IC? Im curious at what point is an AM IC the necessary choice. Money is not a main concern, but Im not into buying upgrades for the hell of it or the bling factor. If you saw my cars paint, youd know that. Ive done a bunch of searches like I usually do, but for some reason no one has a direct answer to this direct question. Some search results say 300-350 HP is the limit, some say its good to 15-16psi and not to replace it unless you go lex AFM and 550's. It seems the opinions are all over the place.

Thanks for informed answers

 

[Poodles]

It's been a while, but last I knew the most power made on a stock IC was 400-500HP...

It's one of the best stock IC's for it's time and unless you're on an upgraded turbo it's pointless to change it IMHO...

 

[turbo87targa]

87 5spd
3" BIC recirc
3" test pipe
3" exhaust to ebay fart can
MBC set at 9psi
K&N filter/adapter
no fuel upgrades
Car runs excellent, no overheating, idles perfect, have done all prevent. maint/tune up stuff. 130K on original motor.

I have an eManage w/ inj. harness ready to go in, and I have a shitload of 2" and 2 1/2" IC piping laying around from past projects also ready to go in. I'm looking at getting a WB before I do this next layer of work.

My question is once I put in the piping, eManage, WB, and turn up the MBC to ~12psi, can I keep the stock IC? Im curious at what point is an AM IC the necessary choice. Money is not a main concern, but Im not into buying upgrades for the hell of it or the bling factor. If you saw my cars paint, youd know that. Ive done a bunch of searches like I usually do, but for some reason no one has a direct answer to this direct question. Some search results say 300-350 HP is the limit, some say its good to 15-16psi and not to replace it unless you go lex AFM and 550's. It seems the opinions are all over the place.

Thanks for informed answers

I was told it doesn't even do a real good job above stock boost, especially in hotter states.

 

[Poodles]

Off JBL's site:

***I have ran a few tests on this system with one stock intercooler and the stock turbo. I used a VDO boost gauge and two SunPro temperature gauges. With my boost controller set to 15 psi at the intake manifold (it has it's own sensor to maintain the proper setting at the manifold) and the VDO tapped in approximately six inches before the intercooler in the PVC pipe, the boost measured 15 psi, just as it should. Then with the VDO tapped in approximately six inches after the intercooler in the PVC, the boost pressure was measured again with the same results, 15 psi indicating no measurable pressure drop from the intercooler.
After this, I took the two temperature gauges and plumbed the sensor probes into the same holes that the pressure measurements were taken in (of course the holes had to be enlarged). With one gauge six inches before and one gauge six inches after the intercooler, the temperature readings were taken at highway runs in fifth gear. It should be noted that these readings were taken in fifth because there was not enough time in other gears to get a reading. On 15 psi runs and 68 degree ambient temperatures, the temperatures before the intercooler reached just under 295 degrees Fahrenheit. This is the section between the turbo and intercooler, and the hottest section in the system (and no, the PVC does not melt or deform)! At the other temperature sensor, after the intercooler, the readings peaked at slightly less than 150 degrees Fahrenheit. That is very good in my opinion, considering the heat that is put out of the stock turbo at 15 psi. I would estimate that the stock turbo is only about 60% efficient at 15 psi and would not recommend running this level of boost with the stock turbo on a regular basis. This test was simply to test the PVC/stock intercooler efficiency. I believe that the stock intercooler system is actually better than most people think. I believe that the pressure drop reported is due to the stock intercooler pipes, not the intercooler it's self.

Sadly the link he has on the site to someone else's tests of different intercoolers is missing...

 

[supradjza80]

I thought I read somewhere that even at stock boost, 6.8 psi, the stock intercooler produces a 3 psi pressure drop. Meaning the turbo is producing 9.8 psi but the manifold is only seeing 6.8. So while it may cool the air well it may be producing an abnormally high pressure drop in doing so.

If this is incorrect or I misread this ( I dont remember where I saw it but I definetely read it somewhere) please correct me.

 

[Zumtizzle]

The flow rates of the stock intercooler are horrid if i remember right.

 

[Rennat]

well if thats true, then my turbo is putting out 8psi to the intake manifold (where my boost gauge is hooked to, along with stock)

so that means my turbo is pushing out 11psi?... doubt it.

 

[grimreaper]

STOCK-410 CFM
SPEARCO-770CFM
SSAUTO-870CFM
make sure you read the thread, they are #'s for comparison.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10779

 

[GrimJack]

Correct, the stock unit has a rather large pressure drop. Most folks upgrade the IC piping and intercooler at the same time, simply because it's easier than trying to rework the piping again for a new intercooler later.

 

[adampecush]

back in the day, most of us only changed the pipes because there wasn't the huge influx of cheap chinese made intercoolers available...forcing us to either shell out >$1000 or keep the stocker.

 

[Poodles]

And looks like nobody read my post...

Zero pressure drop was seen when he tested. You'll probably have even worse flow with the left to right flow intercooler kits that have 180 degree bends in them and a couple more feet of piping...

 

[supradjza80]

And looks like nobody read my post...

Zero pressure drop was seen when he tested. You'll probably have even worse flow with the left to right flow intercooler kits that have 180 degree bends in them and a couple more feet of piping...

No, I did read your post. I see it says that but I am saying I also read from a different source a completely opposite opinion/result...

Who is JBL, is he someone well known for good scientific testing? Not calling BS but there are a lot of people in this world I would not trust for good scientific testing duties. Whether or not this proves either of us right is unknown, but until I know the source for the data I would be wary of it. (ie if it is somebody like IJ or Jdub I would be much quicker to believe the data...)

Like I said earlier I read about the large pressure drop but I cannot remember where...maybe somebody knows of a link showing my side of the story. maybe the correct answer is somewhere in the middle, who really knows without actually testing it.

 

[IJ.]

JBL= John Lunsford

Usually had good info but in this particular case I can't vouch for it either way as I've never measured a stock IC (or owned/used one for that matter)

I would imagine a LOT of the pressure drop/flow restriction would come from the ridiculous Toyota IC Pipes.

 

[MA70witBoost]

JBL= John Lunsford

Usually had good info but in this particular case I can't vouch for it either way as I've never measured a stock IC (or owned/used one for that matter)

I would imagine a LOT of the pressure drop/flow restriction would come from the ridiculous Toyota IC Pipes.

ok, i have the lipp intercooler piping. figured that woulda removed any of the factory restrictions (wasn't thinking about the pressure drop from the piping) but im still running a stock intercooler. Starting to wonder about the stock intercooler myself. I coulda sworn i read somewhere they were good to 30psi. Now im curious. Theres a spearco replica available for $200 so its not that big a deal to upgrade.

 

[Poodles]

My point is, the stock IC with decent piping will take anything a CT will throw at it. It's pointless to upgrade unless you're going with a larger turbo...

 

[Nick M]

And a better turbo needs less of an intercooler.

 

[MA70witBoost]

My point is, the stock IC with decent piping will take anything a CT will throw at it. It's pointless to upgrade unless you're going with a larger turbo...

upgraded as in bigger aftermarket turbo right? not a 60-1 CT26?

 

[GrimJack]

JBL= John Lunsford

Usually had good info but in this particular case I can't vouch for it either way as I've never measured a stock IC (or owned/used one for that matter)

I would imagine a LOT of the pressure drop/flow restriction would come from the ridiculous Toyota IC Pipes.

Could be. The fellow I got my information from was a guy who put a 7M in his pickup truck. No room for the traditional IC, so he left it out and ran the charge pipe straight into the intake. Engine was stock, pushed the usual 6.5 - 7 psi in the Supra he grabbed it out of, and 11 - 12 psi in the truck. However, he had junked the IC pipes, too, so it could easily be due to that.

 

[Pantaloon007]

So basically what Im hearing is if Im not going to upgrade to either a higher A/F ratio CT26(57-1, 60-1, etc.) or another turbo altogether, then all I need to do is change the charge pipes to get better cooling and flow.

Agreed?

 

[jtran8]

So basically what Im hearing is if Im not going to upgrade to either a higher A/F ratio CT26(57-1, 60-1, etc.) or another turbo altogether, then all I need to do is change the charge pipes to get better cooling and flow.

Agreed?

Replace stock intercooler pipes with 2." intercooler hard pipe will automaticly increase 2psi of boost without adjust anything if you already had 3." turbo back exhaust ( it only flow better not cooler) . i've ran stock intercooler+stock intercooler pipe and stock ct26 ; stock intercooler +2." intercooler hard pipes and stock ct26 ; spearco style intercooler +2.5" intercooler hard pipes and 57trim ct26 . If you just want to run stock ct26 and under 14psi of boost , stock intercooler + 2." intercooler hard pipes are good enough , but if you ever upgrade your ct26 or go with bigger turbo then bigger intercooler and 2.5" intercooler pipes at the same time is recommended .