So where's all the weight???

[Poodles]

Thank you, thank you!! I'll be here all week!

















































Unless IJ bans me...

 

[MK3.0dudeman]

What fun is that. The supra has a great suspension design and is a good chassis, the only downfall is the weight. And I don't really like the supra engines anyway, too heavy and too long.

And it may have been designed as a comfort highway cruiser, but that doesn't mean it can't be awesome at a lot of other things.

And trust me, I kind of know what I'm doing.

Yeah, I totally understand what you mean. But like I said in the last post, I keep falling into Supras. The first one was a good friend's and he needed to get rid of it. The second one was on a local forum and cheap and right near the same friend's school, so I got him to pick it up for me. And this one that's coming, the owner of Englishtown actually bought for me. And at our last event, I picked up the car, and had one of the other guys that was at the event, told me his friend had another one that he was trying to give away. So maybe when I have more space, I'll grab that one too. If I had the space, I would just stockpile them until more people realize how awesome they can be, and then sell them and make some money back.

Wiisass this is why your the most bad ass supra owner on supra maina.

I have similar goals with getting my car this light but none of this will happend till I get a better job and get a beater.I also want to have a race car that every now and than take out on the street.

Tim PM me your phone number if you don't mind maybe one day I'll take a drive out to your shop and if you really wouldnt mine maybe I could even help you work on your car and just learn a few things.

cool threa btw I will stay tuned

 

[foreverpsycotic]

Wiisass, any way to create manual crank lexan windows?

 

[Poodles]

anything is possible with enough money...

 

[Wiisass]

I've tried to trade talk with anyone doing any racing with their mk3 the past couple years and so far the list is pretty short. I did talk to a guy in Wi. that has done quite a bit of modifying and has has comp. prepped mk3 (7M) below 3000 lb. He mentioned the standard lightened parts and some chromoly replacements (bumber supports, etc.)
I think sub 3k is possible (especially with hard top) but might be tougher with the targa (wonder if the additional bracing can be removed?) Any ideas folks come across, please share.

Dan's onto something here, the car has some great design features and a solid suspension platform but a big drawback (reason more folks haven't stuck with competition in them) is the weight.

Really, at that weight I think the car would feel excellent. I'm probably ~280 whp and ~3500lb empty now and it's fun outrunning much lighter 944's and other more 'capable' cars, I think sub 3200 lb. would really make it a much more potent car.

1J, you transporting gold bricks in that thing? 4k empty sounds very heavy.
Brian W

Who's Dan?

And you need to cut some weight out of that car and it will make it a lot more fun and a lot better on brakes, tires, etc. Or are you running in a certain class and can't do stuff like that?

Sub 3k shouldn't be too hard with a Targa either. I mean if the cage is well built, you can get rid of a lot of OE bracing if everything is tied together right. And then if they'll let you run without the roof on that's even more weight lost. Arm restaints weigh a lot less than the roof.

here is good way to shead some weight alot as well

see the spention/sub frames on the mk3 are freaking heavy thus with all the new cars 350z most of every bmw use aulmin for sub frames and lower amres ect

It would be a great way, but it would also be expensive. The subframes aren't too bad alone, but everything does add up. But any custom subframe would be a lot of time and money.

The front lower A-arms look to weigh a lot, those could be remade out aluminum or just a tubular constuction.

The spindals front a rear have got to weigh a ton, but I doubt you could remake them in any cost effective manner...

My brother weighed the A-arms, but I don't remember what they weighed. I think it was 25-30lbs. Aluminum would be a bad idea for the lower arms, just because of the loads and that the arms has large bending loads from the shock/spring. But a tubular construction would be nice.

Spindles would be nice. But you're right, cost would be a huge factor. I took apart one of the rear uprights the other day. I still need to weigh the parts, but I think there might be some things that could be done to save a little weight.

Wiisass, any way to create manual crank lexan windows?

It's possible, I haven't looked into the doors too much, but I think there will be some options. But it might be more work than it's worth. I'm sure there will be a couple things that could be done, but I don't think most people will like them or want to spend the money to do it a better way. And it would have to use stock glass windows. Frameless windows with lexan like to get a little sloppy at higher speeds.

 

[AGlobalThreat]

So leave the side windows as glass, and replace the windshield, rear, and rear 1/4 windows with lexan.

A lighter subframe in the front would be awesome. I've also been waiting for someone to make some fiberglass fenders but there doesn't seem to be enough interest for anyone to take the time to mold and produce them.

And as far as aluminum bolts go, if you're going to spend the money for aluminum, why not spend the money for titanium..?

CFX hoods weigh 14 lbs or less.

Wiisass I will be contacting you via PM in the near future so we can discuss my new TIP coilover setup that I want you to build for me. After I finish the harness and redistribute some weight to the rear I will have the car corner weighed and we will go from there (I'm constantly debating lexan windows, removing power steering, and chopping the dash/removing the door panels).

In my eyes less is more, and I'm glad to see so many other supra owners feel the same way.

 

[Wiisass]

I wouldn't replace the windshield with lexan. Besides not being legal for a lot of sanctioning bodies, it would just get screwed up real quick on a car that gets driven frequently.

But sides and hatch are definitely going to be done.

Lighter subframes would be great, but the cost might be high. I would definitely like to do it, but I think it's going to have to wait until at least winter before I will have the time to really put into it.

Fiberglass fenders would be nice, but they might not save much weight. The stock fenders aren't that heavy, but then again, a couple pounds is still a couple pounds. But I don't want to pay $500 for a couple pounds of weight savings. If there were cheap good and wider fenders available for a good price, then it might be worth it. I would like to get the S2 fenders, but I don't know on weight and how much wider than stock they really are.

Replacing the bolts is kind of ridiculous at this level. And as I said before, a lot of the places that I will still have bolts, you would not want aluminum ones. Titanium would work in those spots, but again the cost.

The hood is a good place to save weight. A CFX hood would be nice. But since they aren't available anymore, I am going to try something new and hope it works out.

About the damper setup, sounds good, just get in touch when you're ready and we can put something sweet together.

I don't know if I would remove power steering without modifying the rest of the steering setup. If you're doing a true manual rack, then that could be nice, but anything less and I don't know if it would be worth it. But lexan and modifying/removing interior stuff would be good. I have some plans for the dash that will hopefully cut some weight and look sweet at the same time, so hopefully that will work out.

I agree, less is more, especially for what I'm building this car for. I would like to build a more streetable/daily driving lighter weight supra at some point though. Something that would keep carpet and some of the niceties that I will be removing. Get it down into the 3100-3200 range with good power and make it handle well and look pretty and be reliable. Something that will compliment the race car very nicely. But that won't happen until after the racecar.

 

[Poodles]

did someone say fiberglass fenders?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYO...ryZ36475QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not much out there, that's all I've been able to find.

It's easy to get weight off the back of the car, so the front is where you need the work. Everyone always looks past making the engine lighter...

Sheetmetal FFIM would be a LOT lighter than the stock setup. Sheetmetal cam covers, billet aluminum brackets, ect would shave a ton of weight off the engine...

 

[Ma70.Ent]

I don't know if I would remove power steering without modifying the rest of the steering setup. If you're doing a true manual rack, then that could be nice, but anything less and I don't know if it would be worth it.

Well is there any negative effect/consequence from removing all the P/S related components and keeping the current rack, other than it being hard to steer?

 

[xarewhyayen]

should be a cool build. wheres the car at? RT? i wanna see how its coming along .

 

[WhtMa71]

For shits, my 7mgte/r154 complete engine(all accessories,turbo,everything!.. both full of oil, etc...) attached to a pallet wrapped in saran wrap. Shipping weight was 775lbs..

 

[kjj512]

should be a cool build. wheres the car at? RT? i wanna see how its coming along .

The car just arrived from RT yesterday they brought it back from Englishtown for us. I should have a build thread up for it tonight. (Just for reference I am Wiisass's brother)

775 lbs for the full 7mgte seems about right. I think I remember seeing a number close to that before.

 

[Poodles]

If you've ever had one apart you know how heavy the stock manifolds and brackets are...

 

[kjj512]

If you've ever had one apart you know how heavy the stock manifolds and brackets are...

I was actually thinking it weighed more with everything still on it, and yes I have taken them apart more times and too often then I would have liked.

 

[AGlobalThreat]

I wouldn't replace the windshield with lexan. Besides not being legal for a lot of sanctioning bodies, it would just get screwed up real quick on a car that gets driven frequently. But sides and hatch are definitely going to be done.

What about the weight distribution? I'm trying to keep weight in the rear; there's a lot more I can remove back there but I'm trying to get closer to 50/50 while still dramatically lowering the overall weight of the car.

Btw nothing is legal these days anyways, you can get scratch resistant lexan and take good care of it, and then replace it if/when the time comes.

 

[one jay]

So a bare chassis only weighs 550lbs. I was kind of surprised, I thought it was going to be a lot more. I was looking around for a weight list/thread but didn't see it anywhere. And figured everyone might be interested in this. It was an 87 hardtop and everything was off of it except for a couple plastic tabs and some of those small rubber pieces.

But now this gives me more hope of keeping the car as light as possible. With the right parts, I think it's definitely doable. I'm shooting for 2800lb race weight with the cage and everything. It's obviously going to be more race car than street car, but it's going to be street driven, so I'm not going as crazy with some things as I normally would.

So we'll see what happens. At least I know how much I'm starting with.

glass

front seats

motor

 

[IJ.]

glass

front seats

motor

This DIDN'T require 3 seperate posts.... :nono:

 

[Wiisass]

did someone say fiberglass fenders?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYO...ryZ36475QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not much out there, that's all I've been able to find.

It's easy to get weight off the back of the car, so the front is where you need the work. Everyone always looks past making the engine lighter...

Sheetmetal FFIM would be a LOT lighter than the stock setup. Sheetmetal cam covers, billet aluminum brackets, ect would shave a ton of weight off the engine...

Yeah, but those fenders are ugly. And they don't say if they're wider than stock and they don't tell you how much they weigh. The metal fenders alone aren't that heavy and there's a possibility that those could be as heavy or heavier than the stock fenders.

I'm not looking past making the engine lighter. I'm getting rid of the iron block. That will save a ton of weight there.

But if you're keeping it, there's still stuff you can do. It just can be hard or expensive after you get rid of all the easy stuff.

Well is there any negative effect/consequence from removing all the P/S related components and keeping the current rack, other than it being hard to steer?

The rack isn't designed to work like that and it would make steering harder than if you were using a real manual rack. I don't know if the rack will fail earlier or anything like that. I just don't think there's a point to removing it all without making any other changes.

For shits, my 7mgte/r154 complete engine(all accessories,turbo,everything!.. both full of oil, etc...) attached to a pallet wrapped in saran wrap. Shipping weight was 775lbs..

775lbs, well that's a lot.

What about the weight distribution? I'm trying to keep weight in the rear; there's a lot more I can remove back there but I'm trying to get closer to 50/50 while still dramatically lowering the overall weight of the car.

Btw nothing is legal these days anyways, you can get scratch resistant lexan and take good care of it, and then replace it if/when the time comes.

I would rather have the car light enough that I could add ballast to than to keep unneeded parts in the car just for the sake of static balance. Like, I would rather have the car weight 2700lbs and have a 60% front weight distribution, so then I could add 100-200lbs of ballast to the back, still have a lightweight car and be able to tune the weight distribution of the car.

And a non-ideal weight distribution can be accounted for. It's not good, but it's not as bad as people think. And 50/50 isn't the greatest thing in the world either. There's so much more that goes into it. And with front engined cars that get stripped, it's can be match the weight removal in the front with how much you remove from the back.

There are more extreme things that you can do, moving radiators and cooling systems, cutting stuff out of the front of the car, moving the engine back, moving the driver back, etc. There's a lot you can do to improve the weight distribution.

But I would rather have a lighter car with a balance I could tune than a heavier car with a decent balance.

glass

front seats

motor

What is the point of this post?

 

[MK3.0dudeman]

so lets say I start striping my car.How do I know when I get 50/50 balance.Also I know our cars are front heavey and there not 50/50 but dose any body know what the balance of a hard top is?

 

[IJ.]

Weighbridge: Front wheels on the scale get weight

Turn the car around put the rear wheels on weigh again done.