Scott, are you in Moberry Alabama?
Was it this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUVGf8B2yc&feature=user
Was it this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUVGf8B2yc&feature=user
So my Dad got Tazered!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter ForcedTorque
- Start date
Wade I think you miss the point. I will grant you that not every cop will come face to face with a gun toteing maniac in their career. I will also grant you that most days a cops job is pretty routine. However its a simple fact that cops get shot routinely in this country and it usually happens when they let their guard down or fail to follow procedure.
Ever been felony stopped? I have. It sucks. Was I going to do anything? no! were the cops justified in reacting that way? You bet they were. I did as I was told and was released at the scene.
Ever seen the videos of the cops who walk up to the window of a car and before they can say a word are shot point blank in the chest? I have, pretty scary stuff. I bet you dont have to worry about that kind of thing during the course of YOUR day.
I have a childhood friend who was brought up in a law enforcement family. His dad was a cop, his grandfather was a cop...it was a forgone conclusion that he was going to be a cop. One day while stopped to help a stranded motorist a truck veered up onto the shoulder and hit them. Two officers were killed and my friend was critically injured. He never fully recovered and retired.
http://www.911jobforums.com/archive/index.php/t-4908.html
Very few professions face these kinds of incidents as a regular course of their work. Are there more dangerous jobs? sure there are, but very few people are actually the target of killers. Very few people face the hatred of the general public on a daily basis just trying to do their job. If you ask most cops they will say they got into the business to help people, and this is the thanks they get.
Are there bad cops? sure. Are there over-zeolous gung ho power junkies that use the law as an excuse to abuse people. I think thats kind of obvious.
Whats my point? While most cops are lucky enough to not have to face actual critical life and death decisions on a daily basis, the THREAT of every decision possibly leading to critical consequences is enough to make it one of the most difficult jobs in America. I give cops both a wide berth and face to face respect. I have been ont the other side of the law enough to have learned that much in life.
And Jake...That was f'n funny!
Ever been felony stopped? I have. It sucks. Was I going to do anything? no! were the cops justified in reacting that way? You bet they were. I did as I was told and was released at the scene.
Ever seen the videos of the cops who walk up to the window of a car and before they can say a word are shot point blank in the chest? I have, pretty scary stuff. I bet you dont have to worry about that kind of thing during the course of YOUR day.
I have a childhood friend who was brought up in a law enforcement family. His dad was a cop, his grandfather was a cop...it was a forgone conclusion that he was going to be a cop. One day while stopped to help a stranded motorist a truck veered up onto the shoulder and hit them. Two officers were killed and my friend was critically injured. He never fully recovered and retired.
http://www.911jobforums.com/archive/index.php/t-4908.html
Very few professions face these kinds of incidents as a regular course of their work. Are there more dangerous jobs? sure there are, but very few people are actually the target of killers. Very few people face the hatred of the general public on a daily basis just trying to do their job. If you ask most cops they will say they got into the business to help people, and this is the thanks they get.
Are there bad cops? sure. Are there over-zeolous gung ho power junkies that use the law as an excuse to abuse people. I think thats kind of obvious.
Whats my point? While most cops are lucky enough to not have to face actual critical life and death decisions on a daily basis, the THREAT of every decision possibly leading to critical consequences is enough to make it one of the most difficult jobs in America. I give cops both a wide berth and face to face respect. I have been ont the other side of the law enough to have learned that much in life.
And Jake...That was f'n funny!
Reign....WTF :rofl:
I think the real issue with police is they are given more and more power through law. Expecially the nice gray laws that are completely up to the cop's discression.
Exhaust laws, racing laws, ect are all in this boat, and we all know that power corrupts.
One of my best friends is a cop, so I know the perspective, but even he agrees that a lot of cops are assholes.
I think the real issue with police is they are given more and more power through law. Expecially the nice gray laws that are completely up to the cop's discression.
Exhaust laws, racing laws, ect are all in this boat, and we all know that power corrupts.
One of my best friends is a cop, so I know the perspective, but even he agrees that a lot of cops are assholes.
Well, as I stated earlier, I now believe the traffic stop and taser use could have both been justified. But, would someone explain to me why he was not cited for anything at all? Worst case scenario, I think the cops delay in returning which caused my father to have to leave the vehicle was a cop being a dick in turn for being cut off. He baited my Dad to leave the car so he could Taze him. Just my guess
My Dad did see a lawyer today. He was told that his civil rights WERE violated, and he should pursue it. He is going to consider it. But, how much money can a lwyer make if he tells a client to go home and forget about it.
on the other hand Scott, what lawyer is going to take a client that has a hopeless civil case. If the lawyer wants his case he believes he at least has a reasonable chance to win it.
Scott that is terrible! If this where to happen to my farther I would be seeking action against the police dept. Your not in Montgomery are you?
Wade T;1071576 said:
Its not a matter of police actually facing death and bieng involved in gun fights every day, but that theres the chance that at any moment either a normal everyday routine traffic stop, domestic disturbance call, burglary, or any other call could be, or could turn into a life or death situation.
Forced: Im sorry to hear about your father and i hope hes ok, i hope everything turns out for him.
Ckanderson;1071599 said:
piss does not wait!! When you gotta go you gotta go!
I hope your dad makes an example out if this cop....i respect most cops but all your dad had to do was pee for Christ sake!
Yea, I don't dissagree with most of your points Weezl, but MY day consists of going to work and paying TAXES for an ever increasing and burdensome government - including more cops. I have a general mistrust and dislike of all government employees particularly those that carry badges and guns.
And no, I've never been arrested. Hell, I haven't had so much as a speeding ticket since 1997. But, 11 years ago there were fewer cops and far fewer laws reguarding our liberty and personal property, modified cars in this case. Have spent lots of time and $ building a 400+rwhp Mk2 and can't even use it execpt on track days. Why? Cause there's a fucking cop on every block. I don't dare even leave my driveway now w/ the new WA exhaust laws.. And incidentally, I like how the illegal alien gets a free pass by law enforcement.
But in all fairness, cops are more like symptoms of a much larger problem.
And no, I've never been arrested. Hell, I haven't had so much as a speeding ticket since 1997. But, 11 years ago there were fewer cops and far fewer laws reguarding our liberty and personal property, modified cars in this case. Have spent lots of time and $ building a 400+rwhp Mk2 and can't even use it execpt on track days. Why? Cause there's a fucking cop on every block. I don't dare even leave my driveway now w/ the new WA exhaust laws.. And incidentally, I like how the illegal alien gets a free pass by law enforcement.
But in all fairness, cops are more like symptoms of a much larger problem.
gaboonviper85;1072024 said:
He dissobeyed a police officers orders.
Hows the cop to know what the guy was doing as he walked into that building?
The cops use tazers to gain compliance.
he wasn't complying.
Ckanderson;1072366 said:
im pretty sure his dad told the officer he had to piss real bad....officer took his sweet jesus time when it really only takes minuets to run a check....they sit in there fucken car and rub one out while you wait!!!!! the cop had no reason to need compliance from him...dude wasnt wanted...had no priors....cop had no reason to doubt the man....cop should have used discretion but no he was trigger happy!..
i dont know about you but i ALWAYS question authority.....and i do what i think is right....if a cop tells me to jump....i say fuck off....just becasue they wear a badge doesnt mean i have to do everything they say and kiss ass...no sir...i exercise my rights!
i know if this happened to me id be going to jail!!!! id do everything in my power to hurt that cop real bad!
Wade T;1072166 said:
Yes I too see your point Wade, I guess my only responce then is, hate the system not the man behind the badge. MOST cops are fair honest people trying to make a difference while doing a tough thankless job. I give them the credit and respect they deserve....UNTIL they treat me with anything less than the respect I deserve as a tax paying and NOW completely law abiding citizen.
Scott, if something like this happened to my father I would be pissed too. However, Im kind of of your moms thinking and advise he just let it all blow over.
Ckanderson;1072366 said:
I agree with you........to a point. He's an elderly man who could have gone into a stroke from the incident. He has two medically diagnosed widely recognized ailments known to cause incontinence, and this cop baited him to see just how long he's wait until something really had to be done (my opinion). He was not some drunk needing to release his spent beer and that cop damn well knew it. I agree after a 15 minute wait, he had been baited into disobeying the order.
gaboonviper85;1072429 said:
This is my exact thinking!
theWeezL;1072433 said:
My Mom has changed her thinking now, since my Dad talked with a lawyer.
I have a story and video from youtube in a case in Utah where a guy won his case, and he actually deserved what he got. I will post that link shortly.
Reign_Maker;1071604 said:
That was in Yakima. Duh Reign, that was me on my first traffic stop. I thought you knew that.
Corrected:
You're right...since he clearly had no probable cause (based on the fact that there was no arrest, and presumably no on-going investigation). Sounds like harassment under color of authority to me.
Really?
How long were you a cop?
I was an LAPD peace officer for 12 years, and I can assure you... that is not the policy.
Most law enforcement agency's encourage their officers to use "other force options" besides Tasers when confronting people who are unarmed and of "advanced age" or "very young" (67 is not middle age as someone suggested; I don't know of anyone who lives to be 134). But most agency's allow officers to use Tasers to "immediately cease or prevent physical combat, violent acts against a member, other persons or property, or self-inflicted injury."
You're way off the mark... as well as seriously lacking in compassion for an elderly man who needed to use the restroom, and should have been afforded some dignity and compassion...especially in light of what appears to be a "bad stop".
Law enforcement cannot arbitrarily detain a person with no probable cause, and certainly cannot subject presumed-innocent/non-threatening people to the Taser-gun.
I don't think you would make that comment if it were your father.
My advice would be to get a good lawyer and sue in civil court.
Ckanderson;1072366 said:
Ckanderson;1072366 said:
You're right...since he clearly had no probable cause (based on the fact that there was no arrest, and presumably no on-going investigation). Sounds like harassment under color of authority to me.
Ckanderson;1072366 said:
Really?
How long were you a cop?
I was an LAPD peace officer for 12 years, and I can assure you... that is not the policy.
Most law enforcement agency's encourage their officers to use "other force options" besides Tasers when confronting people who are unarmed and of "advanced age" or "very young" (67 is not middle age as someone suggested; I don't know of anyone who lives to be 134). But most agency's allow officers to use Tasers to "immediately cease or prevent physical combat, violent acts against a member, other persons or property, or self-inflicted injury."
You're way off the mark... as well as seriously lacking in compassion for an elderly man who needed to use the restroom, and should have been afforded some dignity and compassion...especially in light of what appears to be a "bad stop".
Law enforcement cannot arbitrarily detain a person with no probable cause, and certainly cannot subject presumed-innocent/non-threatening people to the Taser-gun.
I don't think you would make that comment if it were your father.
My advice would be to get a good lawyer and sue in civil court.
Here's the bottom line. None of us were there, none of know all the facts. We know a couple, but not enough to make a determination as to whether the stop, or the taser were justified. There are too many factors to consider. Mike is correct when he says an officer cannot arbitrarily detain someone. Not sure about other departments, but we are required to tell someone, "You are not in any trouble, you don't have to talk with me, and you are free to leave at any time", if we are making a social contact. But, if a traffic stop was initiated due to Scott's father making an illegal lane change in front of the officer, then he was in fact being legally detained, therefore, was not free to leave.
So let's say Scott's father was being legally detained. Was a taser justified? Only the cop knows the real answer. Would I have tased him? That depends. It depends on many factors. If I tell a guy to stop, and he keeps walking away from me towards his car, or the entrance of a building, and he starts fiddling with something around his waist, how am I supposed to know whether he is unbuttoning his pants cause he has to pee, or is reaching for a gun, or a knife. There is no way I'm going to walk up and go hands on with him, or try mase. I don't care how old he is.
On the other hand, if it was a bad stop.......Oh boy, cha ching!!
So let's say Scott's father was being legally detained. Was a taser justified? Only the cop knows the real answer. Would I have tased him? That depends. It depends on many factors. If I tell a guy to stop, and he keeps walking away from me towards his car, or the entrance of a building, and he starts fiddling with something around his waist, how am I supposed to know whether he is unbuttoning his pants cause he has to pee, or is reaching for a gun, or a knife. There is no way I'm going to walk up and go hands on with him, or try mase. I don't care how old he is.
On the other hand, if it was a bad stop.......Oh boy, cha ching!!
Dunckel;1073089 said:
Well said. Probably the only unarguable fact in this incident.
I think one thing people have to try to understand is that cops are trained to never let their guard down while on duty. From the first day at the academy, til the day you retire, you are constantly reminded that getting too comfortable and taking your own safety, or your partners safety for granted, will get you killed.
Bad guys don't always look like bad guys. With that in mind, I think it only fair to say that a good police officer has to trust his instincts and training when deciding how to deal with a detainee (possible suspect or person of interest), or someone in custody.
Personally, I use any kind of force judiciously, with great apprehension and as a last resort. Most cops I know, honestly feel the same way. I also know that like any other position of authority, there will always be people that abuse it, and not everyone possesses the patience and judgement the job requires.
where I live cops are the bad guy sometimes their more jacked then the people their supposed to catch. but I also believe in people doing their job either its turning a wrench, flipping a burger, or serving and protecting the people. from what I've read the cop in this case was in the wrong. thats with personal issues aside.