Ridiculous 1000HP 7M Street MK3 Build

[NegativeGeForce]

So now that the head is pretty much done I decided to get started on the short block. Ive been saving this block for about a year. It came out of a 1990 with 31k miles on the clock. Whether the odometer was rolled back or not I don't know, but the bearings look good. I will be taking the disassembled motor to engine lab this week.

 

[IJ.]

Make sure they magnaflux it and pay close attention to the steam holes in the deck and the main bearing webs at the base of the bores

 

[NegativeGeForce]

Engine block machine work has started. Engine lab will be doing the following

• clean & inspect block
• resurface block
• install billet mains and line bore/hone
• torque plate bore/hone to fit .5mm o/s forged pistons
• replace oil pump driveshaft bearings
• polish oil pump driveshaft journals
• polish crankshaft
• precision race balance assembly

The race balance alone is $540 with a discount they gave me :icon_surp

Also, i bought an os giken triple plate clutch. it's on its way. Engine Lab needs the crank, a piston, a rod, crank damper and clutch to do the race balancing.

gonna spend the weekend boxing up my r154 to be sent to Marlin Crawler for a full build

Meanwhile im fiddling with the turbo setup ill be using. Drewgo manifold, s366 borg warner, precision 44m wg. I will probably be running the sound performance quick spool valve as well. I was going to build a custom manifold but decided I didnt want to deal with it and for my power goals the drewgo is enough.

 

[din904]

I'm curious to what exactly is your race balance consist of. I recently rebuilt my short block and my machine shop told me that six-cylinder engines are inherently balanced and that only v type engine use bob weights for balancing. The only balancing they did was to zero balance the crankshaft by itself. The weight of the pistons and rods all where exactly the same using cp pistons and Crower rods not Brian. The flywheel is also zero balance and the damper is from ati so you don't balance it. The damper goes on only when doing final assembly. I really don't know what they could be doing to justify charging you $540 dollars?

 

[din904]

Maybe someone with some experience on this can chime in

 

[NegativeGeForce]

I'm curious to what exactly is your race balance consist of. I recently rebuilt my short block and my machine shop told me that six-cylinder engines are inherently balanced and that only v type engine use bob weights for balancing. The only balancing they did was to zero balance the crankshaft by itself. The weight of the pistons and rods all where exactly the same using cp pistons and Crower rods not Brian. The flywheel is also zero balance and the damper is from ati so you don't balance it. The damper goes on only when doing final assembly. I really don't know what they could be doing to justify charging you $540 dollars?

Everything you just mentioned is spot on and I am aware of it all. The reason I am doing this is because my pauter rods are 9% lighter than stock and pistons are gonna be different weight as well (still deciding on the pistons). Because im installing lighter components the entire assembly needs to get rebalanced esspecially since I am going to be reving this thing to 9k+. This might not matter if your doing a stock rebuild but a build at this level almost requires it if you want the motor to last at sustained high rpm.

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[NegativeGeForce]

Maybe someone with some experience on this can chime in

Counter weights on the crank are balanced to counter weight stock components. Change stock components and everything gets out of balance. Its pretty simple. It probably doesnt affect the inline 6 as much if just reving to 6500 but im going to 9k+.

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[NegativeGeForce]

As far as the flywheel and damper being required for balancing. Well the balancing is done at high speed. Without the balancer and flywheel the crank will flex differently and throw off the computer balancer.

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[din904]

My rods and pistons where 250 grams lighter per cylinder so as long as all of your weights are the same your good. I just don't want to see you over pay for something your not getting. A quality set of pistons and rods are going to be balanced right out of the box. The reason I went with crower over the pauter rods is because someone had some clearance issues with the rods and oil pump at high rpm's. I also plan on turning high rpm's but I'm limiting it to 8500. You might want to do some research on the rods I wish I had some more info for you but It's been a couple years since I did some research on the pauter rods if I remember correctly it was the oil pump shaft and rod that had interference problems at that rpm. Good luck Great build so far

 

[NegativeGeForce]

My rods and pistons where 250 grams lighter per cylinder so as long as all of your weights are the same your good. I just don't want to see you over pay for something your not getting. A quality set of pistons and rods are going to be balanced right out of the box. The reason I went with crower over the pauter rods is because someone had some clearance issues with the rods and oil pump at high rpm's. I also plan on turning high rpm's but I'm limiting it to 8500. You might want to do some research on the rods I wish I had some more info for you but It's been a couple years since I did some research on the pauter rods if I remember correctly it was the oil pump shaft and rod that had interference problems at that rpm. Good luck Great build so far

Don't let anyone tell you that you dont need to balance your rotating assembly. You should research into high speed computer assembly balancing. Even an inline 6 can benefit from it. Ive done my research. All high end 2jzs and rb26 motors that ever last get computer balanced. 250 grams is a huge change in engine harmonics at high rpm and will induce more vibration and accelerated bearing wear. I intend to have this engine make stupid power and last forever so that is why im doing the balancing.

As far as the pauter rods. Thats the first time ive heard of this problem. Many people have ran them without issues.

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[NegativeGeForce]

Heres a link that better explains why u should balance when fitting new rotating assembly parts. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...Should-you-get-the-rotating-assembly-balanced

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[din904]

Yea I questioned the guy at the machine shop on the weight difference and he said that the pistons cancel each other out in weight. I will definitely look into it some more thanks. The pauter rods are wide so at high rpm's you get some crank flex which causes the interference problems. I do know people use them without problems I just didn't want to take that chance but I did come across two builds that had the same problem but that being said who know's what or who built there motor. Just something to think about I"m hoping my motor stays together for long time also. Glad to see you sticking with the 7m and not taking the easy way out. lol

 

[NashMan]

My last motor was balanced as well but just so you know all the blanching is done in the inside of the motor not fly wheel or balancer

so if you choose to swap out your clutch just install one that is balanced and it will be like ya never swapped any thing out

 

[NegativeGeForce]

din904, you are right the inline 6 is inherently balanced but remember it was only statically balanced 25 years ago. Who knows how far off it is from factory and with all the new components fitted. Just putting it back together without even checking is a chance youre taking and it could potentially be a mistake. It would be a mistake for me for sure. A machine shop that tells you it doesnt need to get balanced probably doesn't know anything about modern dynamic balancing. Speed balancing is the modern way of getting very close to 0 balance. When we are talking about 10,000 rpm, 5 grams can put an additional hundreds of pounds of weight on the crankshaft.

Not much information online about this, but any experienced engine build will tell you this should be done if you are doing a serious build. Another link I found http://perpetualbalance.com/content/precision-balance-vs-street-balanced-engines

Im going to try and get a 'before' and 'after' blue print sheet from engine lab of the balancing just to show you guys how far off it is.

 

[din904]

My engine is also balanced what I was questioning was the method my machinist told me you don't use bob weights on an inline 6 just v6 or v8 ect. On an inline motor you weight your pistons and adjust to the lightest one and the rods you do the same checking your big and small ends then you zero balance your crankshaft and do the same thing for your flywheel. I was told the same thing in two different machine shops in town that do performance built engines. Anyway I was just making sure I was not misinformed or maybe someone was over selling you on something.I will continue to follow your build and look forward to that 1000+ hp dyno sheet

 

[NashMan]

Why you pay them to re-setup up the machine with bob weights and copping the stock rods and pistons ?????

The place I go use's bob weight when combining the dampener and fly/clutch combo
if it's just block alone then just balances out the weight then balances crank shaft by it's self


even the billet main caps have me wondering now since to dissimilar metal's


I did pickup that crank griddle and I think that will do the job just fine

 

[IJ.]

If they don't dynamically balance find a better machine shop... :nono:

 

[NegativeGeForce]

i've been eyeing tig welders for a while to fab up my exhaust, intercooler pipes, etc. decided to pick up an Alpha Tig 200x. It's a chinese machine but from my research these machines are getting soo good you can't really tell their welds apart from high end miller or lincoln. This particular tig was just recently released about 2 months ago. http://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-...=UTF8&qid=1385006176&sr=8-1&keywords=alphatig I would get a miller or lincoln but I don't weld enough to justify the cost to be honest. I'll let you guys know how this machine works out for me. I have done alot of mig before and some tig but this will be my first practical project with tig.

also got the os giken triple plate today. I bought a decent used one from tubbie on these forums. This thing is f'n heavy as hell (~30lb with flywheel) and feels like it can take a direct hit from an RPG. Plan is to use this clutch for a while and then probably order the rebuild kit for a later rebuild. Didn't think it would look this good after cleaning it.

 

[NashMan]

^ 700 to rebuild

I had one and sold it it's just too bloody heavy I find

5mm over all on pads

and 1 mm with of pad eather side

and at about 40% osg recommends to get them rebuilt and will hold 600 torq on slicks and 40% it will be lower

 

[NegativeGeForce]

^ 700 to rebuild

I had one and sold it it's just too bloody heavy I find

5mm over all on pads

and 1 mm with of pad eather side

and at about 40% osg recommends to get them rebuilt and will hold 600 torq on slicks and 40% it will be lower

only 600tq on a triple? I believe its close to holding 800tq on a triple and 600 on a twin.