oil is shooting up out of the dip stick tube

[suprafanatic]

So yesterday after i had done a few pulls on the road I pulled into a parking lot to hang out with some friends. I poped my hood and noticed oil had been shot up out of the dip stick tube. There was oil straight up from it on the hood, and everything around it had oil on it. It even pushed the dip stick about an inch up out of the tube.. Any ideas why it would be shooting oil out when I do pulls in the car? It doesnt do it everytime I do a pull though.

 

[Hmong_1G]

#1- Excessive blowby.
#2- Dipstick grommet deteriorated.
#3- Excessive pressure ( blowby)

 

[thedave925]

Did you block the vents on the valve covers?
There is a large block vent that plugs into the intakes side valve cover that can use some good vacuum,
If you don't have enough vacuum drawn from them by the intake BEFORE the turbo, the dip stick can pop out under boost.
Check that the lines are good and have solid connections.
There is a large engine block vent that plugs into the intake side's valve cover that can use some good vacuum, figuring out how to upsize the vac line is a good idea.

 

[lewis15498]

I'd be checking my pcv system first

 

[jdub]

Did you block the vents on the valve covers?
There is a large block vent that plugs into the intakes side valve cover that can use some good vacuum,
If you don't have enough vacuum drawn from them by the intake BEFORE the turbo, the dip stick can pop out under boost.
Check that the lines are good and have solid connections.
There is a large engine block vent that plugs into the intake side's valve cover that can use some good vacuum, figuring out how to upsize the vac line is a good idea.

Would you explain how any significant amount of pressure differential (enough to pull vacuum) is produced by the turbo intake pipe, otherwise known as the accordion hose?

Where exactly is this vac line to up-size for the crankcase to cam cover vent?

I'm really excited about the opportunity to hear about a new break through in fluid dynamics :sarcasm:

I'd be checking my pcv system first

This is good advice...especially if you messed with it.

 

[rawmk3]

Would you explain how any significant amount of pressure differential (enough to pull vacuum) is produced by the turbo intake pipe, otherwise known as the accordion hose?

Where exactly is this vac line to up-size for the crankcase to cam cover vent?

I'm really excited about the opportunity to hear about a new break through in fluid dynamics :sarcasm:




This is good advice...especially if you messed with it.

Jdub, you and I have gone round about this a few times now. And to explain both parts lets do this step by step. The PCV system for the 7m is already pretty retarded. The line coming out of the block, up to the head using about a 1" tube is an oil return and part of the PCV system from what I have been able to find so far. Im sure with your extensive literature with the TCCS (Toyota computer control system) will tell us this.

So if those lines are clogged with oil and carbon deposits you are going to have an excess of crank case pressure building. Now I know you will say the 7M and the 4G63 are nothing alike, but the 4G63T has this very problem on 1st gen motors. They build excessive crank case pressure under boost and do 1 of 2 things if not both. They push the dip stick out of the tube and spray oil everywhere, or they leak oil from the valve cover at the oil fill cap.

The oil cap issue is solved by putting 2 of the seals on there to complete a tighter seal, due to age. Then the dip stick is generally solved by using a zip tie and a small hose clamp to hold the dipstick in place and not allowing it to push out.

Now on to the accordion tube. Please explain to me how under boost (or any other time for that case) there is no vaccume drawn from the accordion tube? Its only purpose is to pull air from the AFM to the turbo. There will be a small vaccume draw (especially at boost when the air flow thru there is at max) because the lines run into the accordion tube.

You brought fluid dynamics into this, and fluid dynamics will show you that air moving in one direction will draw more air in to fill the space left by the exiting air. Thus creating vaccume. Now Jdub, I know you know what you are talking about in general, but sir you are very WRONG in this case. It goes air filter, AFM, accordion tube, turbo. Would you care to explain what if no vaccume is produced is happening in the accordion tube? There is not boost there as it is before the turbo, so is the air ambient/stagnant?

To the OP, make sure your PCV system is clean and free of deposits of carbon and oil. Make sure your connections are good and free of cracks. If the dip stick keeps blowing out, use a zip tie and hose clamp to hold it down until you can find out exactly what is causing this issue. You have build up in your crank case, but its either blow by and your piston rings are bad, or your PCV system is clogged and the pressure is blowing out the dip stick tube. Do a leak down test and see if its your rings are bad. Otherwise its likely in yoru PCV system.

 

[rawmk3]

Oh JDUB, high pressure in the crank case and thus PCV system, and low pressure in the turbo tube; aka the accordion pipe is a significant pressure differential.

 

[jdub]

Jdub, you and I have gone round about this a few times now. And to explain both parts lets do this step by step. The PCV system for the 7m is already pretty retarded. The line coming out of the block, up to the head using about a 1" tube is an oil return and part of the PCV system from what I have been able to find so far. Im sure with your extensive literature with the TCCS (Toyota computer control system) will tell us this.

So if those lines are clogged with oil and carbon deposits you are going to have an excess of crank case pressure building. Now I know you will say the 7M and the 4G63 are nothing alike, but the 4G63T has this very problem on 1st gen motors. They build excessive crank case pressure under boost and do 1 of 2 things if not both. They push the dip stick out of the tube and spray oil everywhere, or they leak oil from the valve cover at the oil fill cap.

The oil cap issue is solved by putting 2 of the seals on there to complete a tighter seal, due to age. Then the dip stick is generally solved by using a zip tie and a small hose clamp to hold the dipstick in place and not allowing it to push out.

Now on to the accordion tube. Please explain to me how under boost (or any other time for that case) there is no vaccume drawn from the accordion tube? Its only purpose is to pull air from the AFM to the turbo. There will be a small vaccume draw (especially at boost when the air flow thru there is at max) because the lines run into the accordion tube.

You brought fluid dynamics into this, and fluid dynamics will show you that air moving in one direction will draw more air in to fill the space left by the exiting air. Thus creating vaccume. Now Jdub, I know you know what you are talking about in general, but sir you are very WRONG in this case. It goes air filter, AFM, accordion tube, turbo. Would you care to explain what if no vaccume is produced is happening in the accordion tube? There is not boost there as it is before the turbo, so is the air ambient/stagnant?

To the OP, make sure your PCV system is clean and free of deposits of carbon and oil. Make sure your connections are good and free of cracks. If the dip stick keeps blowing out, use a zip tie and hose clamp to hold it down until you can find out exactly what is causing this issue. You have build up in your crank case, but its either blow by and your piston rings are bad, or your PCV system is clogged and the pressure is blowing out the dip stick tube. Do a leak down test and see if its your rings are bad. Otherwise its likely in yoru PCV system.

First of all I have explained it...you are too hard headed to get it through your noggin. The TCCS book I have has nothing to do with it...what is your point? Just because I have a much higher IQ than you do does not give you the right to make snide comments like this. Your "experience" does not give you the right to post BS in the Tech sections either.

First - I did say the block to cam cover line was a vent and I mentioned nothing about the lines being clogged. I did say the PCV system (agreeing with Lewis) needed to be checked. That entire paragraph is obvious to the most casual observer. Again, what is your point?

Second - The oil cap should have a good seal...it was designed that way. If the dipstick is popping out, it is an indication of a bigger problem...and you want to ghetto rig it with a zip tie? That is typical of your "advice".

Third - Let's talk about the accordion hose. It is simply a pipe to the AFM/air filter, designed for the minimum amount of flow resistance possible. You are saying there is vacuum in the pipe? Tell me with an open end to the filter how this is possible? The only vacuum on the PCV hose is due to venturi effect and the very slight resistance from the air filter...it is very small. (Note: I said "significant" vacuum in my previous post)

What you are missing is the intake hose is not a closed space...it is open to atmosphere at the air filter end. Vacuum (or, lower than atmospheric pressure) requires a closes space or sufficient resistance...there is no way an air filter can provide that resistance. If it did, the car would not run.

BTW - I have never said there was NO VACUUM at the accordion hose...what is there is very tiny (< 1 in/hg) compared to the vacuum produced at the intake manifold/TB (18-20 in/hg).

Fourth - If I talk fluid dynamics, it will be way over your obviously limited knowledge on the subject...so, I'll dumb it down to the point to where even you can grasp the concept.
- Flow will always follow the path of least resistance....in this case it is flow from the air filter to the compressor inlet produced by a bladed wheel.
- The accordion hose is over 2 1/2" in diameter...the PCV hose is 3/4". A huge difference in volume and, therefore, resistance.
- There is no significant (that word again) resistance to flow from the air filter, AFM and accordion hose.
- There is crank case pressure present in the PCV line from the cam covers and reverse flow (under boost) from the TB orifice.

The above are fact...might want to grasp the concept.

Oh JDUB, high pressure in the crank case and thus PCV system, and low pressure in the turbo tube; aka the accordion pipe is a significant pressure differential.

The PCV system on this car relies on TB vacuum for 90&#37; of it's operating range (off boost). When the engine is in boost, crankcase pressure needs a place to go. That is provided by the path to the accordion hose...the reverse flow under boost from the TB orifice assists that flow from the cam cover outlets to the accordion hose. The flow is due to pressure differential from the cam covers assisted by boost pressure from the TB orifice...the tiny vacuum at the accordion hose is not the determining factor.

It's that simple.

I am going to tell you something else Raw...you obviously have a problem with me. Seems like you feel some need to take the "know-it-all" down. You can cut the snide swipes at my knowledge base...no matter what you say to make yourself feel like the big guy here, it's not going to work. Your posts demonstrate a basic lack of fact on a variety of subjects...you seem to feel that your "experience" should somehow make up for it.

You asked to be banned last time and sent me a flaming, rude PM to make that point...if you like, I'll be happy to post it.
If you are going to continue around here you might want to just STFU and learn something.

 

[thedave925]

Fluid dynamics...hmmm. It seems your belittling me with mind boggling knowledge I couldn't grasp if i tried to put it in proper terms. Thats fine, I like that you know the answers. Only makes me wanna learn more

I'm a plumber, i don't know these things in theory. I know layman term.
In the field AKA real life, I can tell you that if you want a natural gas line going to your BBQ, you have to know the demands of draw that bbq has before you start working, yes i do math in my line of work.
If you pick the easy route and steal from the stove with a Tee to supply that backyard bbq, you'll starve the burner of the bbq because it demands more flow than the
SMALL LINE supplying it can provide.
The solution is one of 2 things.
Utilities provide 50psi to the regulator before the meter, and the house sees 4-5psi after the utilities' regulator.
You can up the pressure at the meter and blow all the individual appliance regulators not made for higher pressure in the house costing money and time, cross out that option.

or you bring in a HUGE LINE from the meter to the BBQ, because as the distance increases, the flow decreases.
That way you have enough flow to supply the demands of the BBQ so you can cook your steak in 10 min and not 25.

The same idea applies to IC pipes, bigger equals less resistance equals more flow equals more power.

The same idea is applied shortly after the 7m oil pump when upgrading the hardline Arz fabbed for the community. Bigger equals more flow.

To get more flow, or vacuum in the OP's case, you up size the line and go to the source.

Your correct in that blow-by means there are bigger problems, ie rings, PCV, maybe the o-ring on the dipstick. Find the problem, don't mask it.

I like you jdub. You make me strive to improve myself and help others more properly by helping me lower the amount of halfass answers I give when i do speak up. Its a sadistic pleasure in the discipline.
"Thank you sir, can I have another?" lol
-Dave

 

[jdub]

Dave - you have the right idea
A minor correction, over distance the psi decreases effectively reducing the rate of flow for a given pipe diameter. The larger pipe you speak of is producing the volume necessary to keep that BBQ hot.

One other thing to keep in mind...bigger is not always better on a pipe. IC piping is a perfect example where critical mach becomes a factor to flow. One it's attained, the resistance to flow produced becomes self defeating...bigger pipes help to the point to where the lower psi does not get the air flow to the manifold fast enough. The same will apply to the BBQ.

I'm doomed when it comes to this subject...I designed piping systems for nuclear power plants back in my younger years. I got pretty well versed on efficient fluid flow. I want guys to understand without being overly technical on it...it's the point that matters and how do make this engine run to it's potential.

I'm also a military guy...I have a tendency to be blunt, especially with those that do not want to learn. It comes across as harsh at times, but if I perceive the guy is willing to learn, I also bend over backwards to help...that is in an effort for the guy's self improvement. It pleases me you seem to be taking it that way.

 

[suprafanatic]

To me it seems like if my rings were bad then it would do that every time I boosted hard? and the car would smoke alot. This has happened about 3 times to me but theres been a significant amount of time inbetween those times it happened. Im talking weeks or months in between. Is it possible that there was to much oil put in the car? Also i have a high pressure toga oil pump, so i have much higher oil pressure than a stock 7m. Not sure if that would affect it or not.

My PVC system is set up properly from what I understand. I have A line going from the TB- 2 ports on the valve covers-catch can// Then from the catch can i have a line to the intake pipe. Is this correct?

 

[jdub]

To me it seems like if my rings were bad then it would do that every time I boosted hard? and the car would smoke alot. This has happened about 3 times to me but theres been a significant amount of time inbetween those times it happened. Im talking weeks or months in between. Is it possible that there was to much oil put in the car? Also i have a high pressure toga oil pump, so i have much higher oil pressure than a stock 7m. Not sure if that would affect it or not.

My PVC system is set up properly from what I understand. I have A line going from the TB- 2 ports on the valve covers-catch can// Then from the catch can i have a line to the intake pipe. Is this correct?

Oil pressure has nothing to do with it. Neither will oil level unless you have it waaayyy over filled. A way to determine if you have excessive blowby is to do a compression test.

If I read this right, you basically put a catch can between the cam cover outlets and the accordion hose. Is the can sealed or is there a filter on it?

Have you ever cleaned the PCV orifice in the TB? (or, at least made sure that it's clear)

Might want to read this, especially the last few pages:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43167

IJ did make a post on the 1st page that the more I think about it, the more I have to agree...a catch can is worth FA

 

[rawmk3]

Ummm JDUB a compression test isnt going to judge blow by that would be a leak down test. A leak down test tells you what kind of pressure loss there is in the combustion chamber and thus tells you if you have an issue with rings, or valves.

 

[jdub]

Ummm JDUB a compression test isnt going to judge blow by that would be a leak down test. A leak down test tells you what kind of pressure loss there is in the combustion chamber and thus tells you if you have an issue with rings, or valves.

Ummmm and where does that compression go when the valves are shut during a compression test?

A leak down will provide good info too, but it is not the only method.

It's time for you to stop the pissing contest wise guy.

 

[suprafanatic]

Ummm JDUB a compression test isnt going to judge blow by that would be a leak down test. A leak down test tells you what kind of pressure loss there is in the combustion chamber and thus tells you if you have an issue with rings, or valves.

So does a compression test . . . If theres any leak in compression, from a blown head gasket, bad rings, or valves theres going to be lower pressure, and this shows up on a compression test

 

[jdub]

So does a compression test . . . If theres any leak in compression, from a blown head gasket, bad rings, or valves theres going to be lower pressure, and this shows up on a compression test

He's just trying to provoke me...I apologize for what this guy is doing to your thread. It is going to stop as of now.

 

[suprafanatic]

And it would be great if this nice long argument could stop, Im trying to figure out a problem, If you want to argue about this stuff take it else where. Thank you

 

[suprafanatic]

Jdub, how often have you seen this problem? And is it more often a PCV problem or the Rings?

 

[jdub]

And it would be great if this nice long argument could stop, Im trying to figure out a problem, If you want to argue about this stuff take it else where. Thank you

Raw - you are on notice. You are no longer welcome in this thread.

Jdub, how often have you seen this problem? And is it more often a PCV problem or the Rings?

I've seen it a few times, mostly when the PCV was ghetto rigged. I would do a compression test for peace of mind.

 

[suprafanatic]

ok, I have alittle time today so i'll just check my PCV system out and look for any problems with it. Later this week im going to be changing my spark plugs so i'll do the compression test then. I desperatly hope its not the rings, this motor was just built not to long ago. It was bored out and has Ross pistons and new rings in it. Anywho i'll report what i find with the PCV system later today.