Oil Advice from the autozone employee

iwannadie

New Member
Jul 28, 2006
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gilbert, az
SrBigbutt;1374023 said:
This thread is LOL. Its a given that Autozone sucks. Thats whey they have nice websites, so you can find parts online and say. Give me this!! I know you have it!! I fight myself from taking the keyboard away from them quite often.

I like napaonline, you can print out a shopping list with all their part numbers. I went there one time with the list and the guy looked at me funny, then asked where I got this list. He had no clue you could go online and print out such a thing.
 

SrBigbutt

New Member
Apr 26, 2009
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Thats funny. I don't have my Napa Stores near me. They usually never have the part I need in stock and they take forever to get it.

Oreilly's website will show which store has it in stock. Which is pretty nice. I've learned to check online first, check availability, get part #, see picture and verify before I pay.
 

rayall01

New Member
Oct 10, 2008
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iwannadie;1374030 said:
I like napaonline, you can print out a shopping list with all their part numbers. I went there one time with the list and the guy looked at me funny, then asked where I got this list. He had no clue you could go online and print out such a thing.

Yeah, but can you get German Castrol 0W30 there?
 

Zazzn

l33t M0derat0r (On some other forum) n00blet here
Apr 1, 2005
972
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i read jdubs oil thing as well, and it still wasn't enough to convince me on syntenic.

The key sticking point is I don't leave oil in my engine long enough to let the addiatives break down.
Also it costs 3x the price of regular oil so i would rather change 3x more often
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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Feb 10, 2006
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Zazzn;1374087 said:
i read jdubs oil thing as well, and it still wasn't enough to convince me on syntenic.

The key sticking point is I don't leave oil in my engine long enough to let the addiatives break down.
Also it costs 3x the price of regular oil so i would rather change 3x more often


Why doesn't that surprise me :rolleyes:

Most people change their oil way too often...guess you are no exception Zazzn. Let me guess: You "like" to run nice clean oil.

Just in case you don't know, the SAE (you know, the Society of Automotive Engineers) did a study a number of years back that showed that frequent oil changes increased wear on an engine. That running an oil (especially a synthetic) well over the usual 3K change interval reduced wear on an engine. The key is filtration...you have to use a good one.

Of course I'm not going to be able to convince you of this...after all, you probably have your mind made up. ;)
 

TomFraser

New Member
SrBigbutt;1373977 said:
I don't doubt that you can go 8,000 miles between oil changes. But if I were to buy a used car. (A Supra at that) Wouldn't changing the oil be one of the first things you do. Atleast I would. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. But I would like a fresh start and know when my maintenance intervals should be.

I changed all fluids except the coolant and oil, I knew the oil and coolant had been changed because the engine had been removed to have the surfaces decked for a new headgasket (he has all receipts/work orders/estimates)

Coolant is coming next, I will replace all hoses, get a new radiator, water pump, thermostat, etc. while I'm doing it
 

Mk3runner

Supramania Contributor
Nov 19, 2006
2,033
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Nor Cal
we need to gather all the oil thread bs and merge into one and sticky. it was just yesterday the 1qt over in pan was discussed yet I see no need to...

Jdub, along with others have countless times stated facts on top of facts on how "we" can all benefit and strengthen our oil systems and all components. If someone chooses to think differently, no problem. but I myself have tried and successfully upgraded my oil capabilities on my 7M. I stand by 1qt over.

as for vatozone, crackgen *kragen for those that didnt get it* half assed performance shops that try to bs their so called knowledge.. you can all kiss my ungrateful pasty white butt lol. It pays and saves to research your own work you do on your cars, either it be oil, coolant, spark plugs, pumping gas, or even hanging a slightly crappy scented pine tree off the mirror.

lol, autozone has nice stuff along with everywhere else, but beware lol. they know hardly anything. .....snaps haha, I was ranting. sorry.
 

Justin727

T-virus infected
Best thing to do is see if the store managers are Mexican. If they are then theres your problem with spanish only labeling.

Sir if that is the case that is a form of racial profiling by the store only wanting to appeal to hispanics..

I am not racist towards mexicans because according to my birth certificate I am "mexican"
 

lewis15498

Don't blame ebay cheapass
Sep 28, 2008
1,397
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Raynham, Massachusetts, United States
jdub;1374091 said:
Why doesn't that surprise me :rolleyes:

Most people change their oil way too often...guess you are no exception Zazzn. Let me guess: You "like" to run nice clean oil.

Just in case you don't know, the SAE (you know, the Society of Automotive Engineers) did a study a number of years back that showed that frequent oil changes increased wear on an engine. That running an oil (especially a synthetic) well over the usual 3K change interval reduced wear on an engine. The key is filtration...you have to use a good one.

Of course I'm not going to be able to convince you of this...after all, you probably have your mind made up. ;)

Why is that? Does the oil need like a break in period or something? I'm sure your right, just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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Feb 10, 2006
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There's not a whole lot to wrap your mind around Lewis, but you do have to get past the "legends" and "myths" that are rampant about motor oil. And understand that the oil your Grandfather used is nowhere near the same animal as a modern motor oil.

Some background: A modern motor oil is 70-80% oil (base stock) and the rest is additives. Additives include anti-wear, dispersant, viscosity index improver, anti-foam, corrosion inhibitor, detergent, friction modifier, antioxidant, and others. The larger the viscosity spread (i.e. a 5W-50 vs a 10W-30) the more additives required to achieve it, in this case viscosity index improvers or modifiers. What you think is oil is really a carefully formulated lubricant that has all the additives it needs to perform or exceed API specifications.

Enemies of motor oil are oxidation, heat, and shear...any of these can shorten the life of the oil significantly. Oxidation from piston blowby, combustion byproducts, fuel/coolant dilution, soot, etc. result in the formation of free radicals that attack the carbon chain inherent in the oil molecule. This puts larger demands of the detergents and when they deplete, the oil can no longer keep the engine clean. Excessive heat assists this breakdown process and will also cause excess viscosity loss or migration of a multigrade oil toward a single grade. Shear is a mechanical process where the oil is squeezed out between to mating surfaces...the cams, piston rings, and oil pump are the primary culprits. Basically shear results in a viscosity loss which can eventually affect the bearings, which rely on a hydrodynamic film. Two of the three can be owner improved by using a better oil (modern oils fit this bill) and control heat (use an oil cooler). Shear is controlled by the engine design engineers.

Most the stuff you hear about oil comes from long ago and by word of mouth...mechanics and parts guys being the #1 source. The oil changed...the info did not. There was a time when you needed to change your oil fairly frequently...it simply could not handle it. The additives were not as good and the base oil was not as highly refined. The engines didn't help either...looser tolerances caused shear which breaks oil down. Few cars had oil cooler either, further contributing to the problem. The 3000 mile OIC was thus born and has been preached ever since...especially by the fast oil change guys that want you spending $$$ in their shops every 3000 miles.

The Supra owners manual is a case in point for OIC...it recommends a 2,500 miles under severe (operating on rough muddy roads) conditions or 5,000 miles under normal conditions. Even 20 years ago the engineers figured out that motor oil could exceed the 3,000 miles preached by mechanics, parts guys and Jiffy Lube...and, that is using a conventional motor oil. Modern cars have bumped that interval higher to 7500 miles (or more). Of course, the Jiffy Lube guys are going to come up with all kind of reasons why you should ignore all that and change at 3,000 miles...the main reason is they want in your wallet.

Fast forward to today and you still see the same old crap...doesn't matter that a modern synthetic has detergents, antioxidants, viscosity improvers and friction modifiers that are superman compared to 20 years ago. A PAO or ester based synthetic (all with identical molecule chains) using these additives result in triple the life span. Conventional wisdom tells you if the oil is getting dark, it's dirty and needs to be changed...in reality the oil is doing it's job and it getting dark is proof of that.

To finally answer your question, the anti-wear additives change chemically as the oil is heat cycled. It makes it more effective as it bonds with the base oil and friction modifier additives. Wear metals in analysis drop over time as a result.

None of that matters to guys like Zazzn who relies on "respected members of the community" or "my shit hot mechanic" for advice on oil. The problem is none of these guys can back it up or tell you why they run this oil or that oil. You hear "I like nice clean oil"..."my mechanic told me"..."I feel like it's better". Never mind the facts, it's all about how you feel this oil is doing and it getting dark is all the proof you need to run out and change it.

My response is whatever blows your skirt, but when you hear me tell someone that they can take a PAO or ester based synthetic to 8,000 miles easy, that is based on average conditions, average maintenance, an average air/oil filter and a stock (or no oil cooler). These oils can (and do) well exceed that OIC...if you use a bypass oil filter, you can make the argument for never changing the oil and simply doing part drains and add make-up. Oil analysis has proved it time and again...I really don't care what the ignorant have to say.


Cliff Notes:
- Modern motor oils are an order of magnitude better than when most oil "myths" started
- Anti-wear additives become more effective as the oil is heat cycled
- The fast oil change shops keep the 3,000 mile OIC alive so they can get your $$$
- A good conventional motor oil will go 5,000 miles and a synthetic 8,000 miles easy under average conditions
- Most parts guys, mechanics and even some "respected members of the community" don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to oil
 

KicknAsphlt

Occasional Peruser
SrBigbutt;1374023 said:
This thread is LOL. Its a given that Autozone sucks. Thats whey they have nice websites, so you can find parts online and say. Give me this!! I know you have it!! I fight myself from taking the keyboard away from them quite often.

What's really funny is when you walk in with a part number (and they CAN look up by P/N) an they STILL ask you what car it goes to -- you just want to slap the shit out of them and yell, "It's fucking irrelevant you nimrod!" :evil2:
 

KicknAsphlt

Occasional Peruser
jdub;1374091 said:
Why doesn't that surprise me :rolleyes:

Most people change their oil way too often...guess you are no exception Zazzn. Let me guess: You "like" to run nice clean oil.

Just in case you don't know, the SAE (you know, the Society of Automotive Engineers) did a study a number of years back that showed that frequent oil changes increased wear on an engine. That running an oil (especially a synthetic) well over the usual 3K change interval reduced wear on an engine. The key is filtration...you have to use a good one.

Of course I'm not going to be able to convince you of this...after all, you probably have your mind made up. ;)


Back when I had my '87 N/A, there was a sticker on the factory air filter housing that said, "change oil every 10,000 miles for standard driving conditions, 5,000 for heavy conditions." 'Bout blew my damn mind reading that from a car that was 19yrs old at the time.
 

ms07s

TORGUE!
Sep 29, 2007
1,083
0
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Memphis,Tn
Supras ahead of their time...if you use domestics as a measure.

Having no actual automotive knowledge seems the trademark of AZ staff. I do love to call them for parts that don't exist, crankshaft for a 89 rx-7, radiator for a 67 bug, ect

I knew a tech who went 10K between oil changes using ultra cheep dealership 10w30 dino oil. 200K and still running. If the 3k myth was true that truck would have died long long ago.
 

Jeff Lange

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 29, 2005
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jefflange.ca
KicknAsphlt;1374472 said:
Back when I had my '87 N/A, there was a sticker on the factory air filter housing that said, "change oil every 10,000 miles for standard driving conditions, 5,000 for heavy conditions." 'Bout blew my damn mind reading that from a car that was 19yrs old at the time.

Not sure about all of the stickers on the car for different years, but even my AE86 has a 10,000 mile / 16,000 km oil change interval. Toyota actually lowered that over the years, by the time the 93/94 Corolla came out Toyota was at a 7500 mile / 12,000 km oil change interval.

On new models Toyota recommends 5,000 miles or 8,000 km, or half what they recommended in 1986.

I stick with what Toyota recommends for my 2009 Corolla, as I like to have records to prove maintenance for warranty purposes. After the warranty is up, I will likely change to longer intervals on synthetic.

Jeff
 

deabionni

The Lurker
Sep 16, 2007
431
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Kalkaska, MI
jdub;1374091 said:
Why doesn't that surprise me :rolleyes:

Most people change their oil way too often...guess you are no exception Zazzn. Let me guess: You "like" to run nice clean oil.

Just in case you don't know, the SAE (you know, the Society of Automotive Engineers) did a study a number of years back that showed that frequent oil changes increased wear on an engine. That running an oil (especially a synthetic) well over the usual 3K change interval reduced wear on an engine. The key is filtration...you have to use a good one.

Of course I'm not going to be able to convince you of this...after all, you probably have your mind made up. ;)

Here's your post about the SAE oil change intervals, Jdub, and here's the SAE report that you posted:

Originally Posted by ://www.sae.org
"Title: Extended Oil Drain Intervals - Conservation of Resources Or Reduction of Engine Life (Part I)"
After reading that you may never change your oil again at even 10,000 miles!

There are millions of miles of oil analysis that not only prove short duration changes increase wear but also result in a lack of additive activation in the motor. If you own a Jiffy Lube then I would expect you to subscribe to the "3,000 mile Mentality" myth.

Oil additives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time i.e. longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!

Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000 kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the concern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade.

If you doubt the 10K oil change intervals perform an oil sample at 1,000 miles. Most cars with a fresh sump of oil will peak out at the 1,000 mile mark. After that the wear metals may increase by only 5-10% over the course of 10,000 miles! Nearly 90% of the engine wear occurs in the first 1,000 miles on an oil change! Increasing oil change frequency increases the duration your engine spends in the activation period of the additives and greatly increases the damage in your motor from failing to follow the guidelines of the manufacturer.

Just looking at iron in a VW motor typical readings are around 20-35 ppm after 15,000 miles of use maximum on a motor that has more than 60,000 miles. The oil filter is not capable of filtering this much metal simply because the wear metals are so small they can't be filtered from the oil. Also because there is so little wear metal you do not get wear as a result of the metal being suspended in the oil.

Dispersant's require time to bond to the wear metals and byproducts in your engine oil. As byproducts such as soot (gasoline or diesel make soot just different sizes which discolor the oil) are created additives coat them and prevent them from clumping and becoming larger. Typical soot particles in diesel oil are in the nanometer range in terms of size 10 times smaller than what any bypass filter can even capture which is rated at 2 microns absolute. Your oil filter in your motor is rated at capturing particles in the 7 micron range with only a 75% first pass rating...Bottom line is your car would last forever if you change the oil every 20,000 miles and NEVER replace the oil filter simply because your motor is not making enough metal or by-products to ever get captured! Oils especially those for diesels can handle upwards of 8% soot, that my friend is a LOT of soot! To put that in perspective a typical motor after 25,000 miles without an oil change or filter change will only have 1% soot in the oil. This oil will appear tar black yet the oil still has 80% of its rated levels of protection remaining!

Most oils are limited by time in the sump rather than miles due to sulfur in the fuel. Most gasoline motors can safely go 2 years between changes when using quality oils formulated for extended drains such as Mobil 1 0w40 and Truck and SUV 5w40. These oils along with those sold as VOW 506.01 have very high TBN ratings that neutralize acid formation for upwards of two years (1 year in diesels due to higher sulfur content which causes the acids).

Here's the deal, forget the myths about frequent oil changes and basing your perceptions on how the oil looks. The best advice is use a quality oil and drain it at the specified interval. The worst thing you can do to a modern car is over maintain it, yes this is possible due to the very specific regimen that VW engineers figured out to keep your car running at peak performance with maximum durability.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
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Valley of the Sun
Thanks for ferreting that out for me...much appreciated. However, I doubt it will convince certain individuals that subscribe to the "clean oil myth"...opinions are much more important than any SAE study (this is not the only one). Just ask em, it's much more cost effective to run a conventional oil in a high heat turbo engine vs a synthetic and change it 3 times more often. Duh...it's obvious hey :sarcasm:


honestabe;1374465 said:
All hail jdub's novel. BTW, thanks for the cliff notes, it's too late to read all that.

I know that sometimes I get a bit long winded on this stuff, but the devil is in the details. Hopefully it will help a few people to make the right decision vs listening to the "feel good" crap and opinion floating around about oil. If you guys want me to knock it off, it will save me the time and effort. One thing's for sure, don't listen to the parts guy...LOL!
 

deabionni

The Lurker
Sep 16, 2007
431
0
0
Kalkaska, MI
jdub;1374599 said:
If you guys want me to knock it off, it will save me the time and effort.

I'd prefer that you don't knock it off! :)

I'd rather listen to one person who knows what he's talking about, and has sources to back it up; then to listen to ten people who pull stuff out of their butts.

Keep preaching the truth, brother! :D