New Engine Set-Up Finally In *PICS*
- Thread starter BoostedFloto
- Start date
BoostedFloto said:
I'm not Jake, but you are absolutely correct...this kind of BS does not belong here. I cleaned the thread up. No more nut swinging, no more BS games. The bottom line is Bill spent a bunch of cash on a block that's not going to work. Basically a re-do...so for you central FL boys, if you got something to add that will HELP get Bill's motor up and running, feel free to post.
Any more of the BS and you'll be hearing from me.
I was asked to take a look at this thread by someone. All I can say is wow, what a heartbreaker.
Engine assemby should involve thorough cleaning and checking of all clearances and correction of any that are out of spec. Cheap ass 7M guys always freak out when I tell them it is going to cost a G to assemble thier engine. I'm not just slapping stuff in and hitting it with a clicker. I actually know it is going to work right when I (or they) turn the key for the first time.
Once an engine is running, any noises should be diagnosed before removal. I'm not sure how you guys mistook piston slap for rod knock but there couldn't have been much of a diagnostic process used to come to that conclusion. It sounds like you still aren't sure if that is the actual problem or not, just going with what IJ said it could be from all the way in Australia.
It looks like a very clean and promising setup for the 7M camp and in the interest of getting it running, I'd recomend someone more thorough/careful/competent do the prep and assembly work. That way it will work the way it should have the first time.
If you don't want to deal with it anymore, PM me a price on the RonR FFI.
Engine assemby should involve thorough cleaning and checking of all clearances and correction of any that are out of spec. Cheap ass 7M guys always freak out when I tell them it is going to cost a G to assemble thier engine. I'm not just slapping stuff in and hitting it with a clicker. I actually know it is going to work right when I (or they) turn the key for the first time.
Once an engine is running, any noises should be diagnosed before removal. I'm not sure how you guys mistook piston slap for rod knock but there couldn't have been much of a diagnostic process used to come to that conclusion. It sounds like you still aren't sure if that is the actual problem or not, just going with what IJ said it could be from all the way in Australia.
It looks like a very clean and promising setup for the 7M camp and in the interest of getting it running, I'd recomend someone more thorough/careful/competent do the prep and assembly work. That way it will work the way it should have the first time.
If you don't want to deal with it anymore, PM me a price on the RonR FFI.
Idealsupra;984331 said:
Just reading the thread and the clearly posted facts therein. Not intended as a personal jab as I don't know you or BoostedFloto from Adam. I just felt bad reading the thread and wanted to point out the ultimate cause for the car still not running so this can stop happening.
chevyeater;984346 said:
*Sigh*... I was going to post a long response...but its just not worth it. Tell your little birdie I said hi.
BoostedFloto;984379 said:
On the contrary, this is an extremely informative thread in my opinion. I know it is painful for you and I'm not trying to rub salt in or anything, just want you to finally get to the payoff of getting it finished after all you have been thru and still stuck with it. You deserve to be enjoying your car.
Brian - these guys have been taking a lot of flack for what turned out to be a situation where they are going to essentially start from square one. I deleted a lot of the BS that was flying around this thread. Bill and Jayson are both frustrated...and rightfully so. Any help you can offer I'm sure will be appreciated
jdub;984393 said:Brian - these guys have been taking a lot of flack for what turned out to be a situation where they are going to essentially start from square one. I deleted a lot of the BS that was flying around this thread. Bill and Jayson are both frustrated...and rightfully so. Any help you can offer I'm sure will be appreciated
I can understand how they are defensive/defeatist at this point but, I'd like to see if we all can put bickering and partisanship aside help get this build back on track. I'd hate to see this end in a for sale thread. That is why I started posting here.
chevyeater;984425 said:
jdub;984436 said:I know
You nailed it...time to regroup and get this motor built!
THIS... I can agree with. Hopefully we can find Bill a newer block and crank so we can get this GOOD machine shop to do all the work and get this thing together and running right!
For the record the previous engine pulled pretty damn nicely at only about 10psi...felt really strong. Just had that god awful piston slap noise heh.
I may have an extra block somewhere if he needs. Lets get this badboy running so we can race already lol. LMK if you need a block bill.
Jayson - You should not need another crank, unless the one Bill has is damaged.
Have the main/rod journals checked for surface finish and size and make sure it's straight/balanced.
Have the main/rod journals checked for surface finish and size and make sure it's straight/balanced.
jdub;984820 said:
I agree. Although Im not sure if he has ever decided if he wanted a 6M or a 7M crank. The last two that have been used are 6M. I dont know which one I think he would be better with. I guess since it will all be getting balanced the lighter more rev happy 6M is the better choice.
Bill I also took a look in my disaster of a garage and remembered that I still have that block I was saving for MY build. But that wont be for awhile so its yours if you want it. Its the newer style also which is what we want for you.
The 7M is a better crank IMO since it is fully counter weighted, it is heavier (hence the reduction in redline RPM), but is a smoother running crank. You can lighten it up quite a bit...the one I'm having work done on is getting abut 6-7 lbs taken off and knife edged. It's getting the usual straightening, journal sizing/polish, zero balance and a nitrite treatment too. All this tends to get a bit expensive
The problem is finding a good one...one out of a Cressida motor or NA Supra is best. Those have lived a bit more cushy life.
The 6M is fine, especially if you already have one that's had the work done on it to save the additional $$$'s at this point. I would still get it checked just to be sure based on what's already happened...call me a bit paranoid
The problem is finding a good one...one out of a Cressida motor or NA Supra is best. Those have lived a bit more cushy life.
The 6M is fine, especially if you already have one that's had the work done on it to save the additional $$$'s at this point. I would still get it checked just to be sure based on what's already happened...call me a bit paranoid
jdub;984916 said:The 7M is a better crank IMO since it is fully counter weighted, it is heavier (hence the reduction in redline RPM), but is a smoother running crank. You can lighten it up quite a bit...the one I'm having work done on is getting abut 6-7 lbs taken off and knife edged. It's getting the usual straightening, journal sizing/polish, zero balance and a nitrite treatment too. All this tends to get a bit expensive
The problem is finding a good one...one out of a Cressida motor or NA Supra is best. Those have lived a bit more cushy life.
The 6M is fine, especially if you already have one that's had the work done on it to save the additional $$$'s at this point. I would still get it checked just to be sure based on what's already happened...call me a bit paranoid
Yeah I think we are going to go ahead and find another crank as well. And loosen up the tolerances a bit as the machine shop made the clearances a little too tight for the power we want last time. Again our fault as we gave them a "guideline" rather then a set number. It was still in spec but for higher power we want to go a little looser.
So I guess finding a crank is the deal. I think as long as its balanced the 6M should be perfectly fine. I dont think Bill wants to drop what would be probably close to 1K on machine work on the crank by itself
Yeah...as you guys know, machine work adds up fast!
What kind of rods and was any machine work done on them?
What kind of rods and was any machine work done on them?
On the subject of piston slap, here's what Tom Monroe has to say in the Engine Builders Handbook (pg 9) and I quote:
"Piston slap makes a hollow or dull noise. If you were to tap a piston's thrust surface --- the right side of the piston below rings --- with a plastic or wood mallet, it would make a similar sound. The noise from the engine is muffled by the block and surrounding coolant.
Piston slap is loudest when an engine is cold because piston-to-bore clearance is greatest. This is particularly true with forged pistons. If the noise goes away after the engine warms up, the condition isn't serious.
To determine whether the sound you hear is piston slap, loosen the distributor hold-down bolt. With the engine running, retard ignition timing by slowly rotating the distributor in the direction of distributor shaft rotation. This will reduce the load placed on the piston, so any piston slap should become quieter or disappear altogether.
If you suspect one piston of slapping, a simple detection method is to kill one cylinder at a time while the engine is running. (This is the same method used for doing a power balance test, page 12.) This will remove all combustion load from the affected cylinder, thus quieting any piston slap."
I hope that provides some insight... it was a lot to type out! Have you diagnosed with a stethoscope?
Jim
"Piston slap makes a hollow or dull noise. If you were to tap a piston's thrust surface --- the right side of the piston below rings --- with a plastic or wood mallet, it would make a similar sound. The noise from the engine is muffled by the block and surrounding coolant.
Piston slap is loudest when an engine is cold because piston-to-bore clearance is greatest. This is particularly true with forged pistons. If the noise goes away after the engine warms up, the condition isn't serious.
To determine whether the sound you hear is piston slap, loosen the distributor hold-down bolt. With the engine running, retard ignition timing by slowly rotating the distributor in the direction of distributor shaft rotation. This will reduce the load placed on the piston, so any piston slap should become quieter or disappear altogether.
If you suspect one piston of slapping, a simple detection method is to kill one cylinder at a time while the engine is running. (This is the same method used for doing a power balance test, page 12.) This will remove all combustion load from the affected cylinder, thus quieting any piston slap."
I hope that provides some insight... it was a lot to type out!
Have you diagnosed with a stethoscope?Jim
jdub;984960 said:
Crower rods. They were fully balanced by the orlando machine shop. They were also installed backwards on the pistons lol.
They will be reconditioned (if needed) and rebalanced and obviously flipped around to be on the proper side.