Methanol nozzle placement

[mastergrader007]

I wasnt thinking of it as nos, But i wasnt thinking of it as "cheap race gas on demand" lol. the way i understood it is that it significantly cools the air before it enters the engine and its can be set by a boost reading of your choice? am i right??? or still just a retarded hillbilly Canadian??? haha

So, are you saying that bolting a system onto my supra (running 10psi) needs to be professionally tuned?? Will it cause my car to run too rich??? I only drive this sucker in the summer and if there is one thing i've noticed about a supra, when it gets warm, it feel like im dragging VW behind me! lol

 

[tekdeus]

If you're on a stock turbo, you've got other upgrades to perform first. Generally, people only add a meth kit to go above 15psi on a larger turbo setup.

 

[crisp]

Generally, people only add a meth kit to go above 15psi on a larger turbo setup.

...er... that would now be ME!:biglaugh:




Making this thread particularly pertinent to crisp...




-crisp

 

[mastergrader007]

If you're on a stock turbo, you've got other upgrades to perform first. Generally, people only add a meth kit to go above 15psi on a larger turbo setup.

ok, so i am planning on a bigger turbo and the lexus afm and injectors maybe next year. Is there any benefit to adding a meth system on a stock turbo?? will it do any good??? or is it not worth the hassle till i go bigger?? sorry for all the Q's. just like to do some research.

 

[tekdeus]

ok, so i am planning on a bigger turbo and the lexus afm and injectors maybe next year. Is there any benefit to adding a meth system on a stock turbo?? will it do any good??? or is it not worth the hassle till i go bigger?? sorry for all the Q's. just like to do some research.

Spraying methanol/water changes the tune, and you would want to at least have an SAFC to retune the car for the new fuel the meth adds.

But you could just use a smaller nozzle and spray only water to get some of the benefits and would not need a retune. The only real benefit you would get right away would be a steam cleaned engine :biglaugh: I'm not sure if you would feel more power or not..?

 

[GC89]

I doubt you would even feel a slight bit of increase. Water/meth injection is more for knock retard/timing increase than anything else. Yes it will clean your engiine and any tuning even with the SAFC will help but 10psi is no where near needing meth inj.

 

[arz]

Man TONS of comments, I didnt have time to read all of them.

The nozzle placement has more to due with atomization rather then cooling. The actual effect is mostly inside the combustion chamber, keeping the heat down and adding octane (meth) allowing to run more boost.

Mine is as far from the TB as possible. RIGHT after the IC. The longer the water vapor can be in the intake stream the longer it has to cool the intake air. Many times after a good solid flogging if I pop the hood fast enough you can see water that has condensed on the outside of the throttle body. I always worried about a frozen throttle plate but I think its JUST TOO HOT in there. No stand alone, so I dont know how much it cools the charge, but I can ask Clifton to see what his used to get down to.

I also run a level switch to the Boost control so when it's out of methanol it's limited to the WG spring.

Mine is hooked to a pressure switch between the solenoid and the misting nozzle. If there is no pressure there I am limited to my WG spring also. Excellent safety, no meth pressure (for what ever reason) no boost over 16 psi. It works great until the meth eats my pressure switch. They seem to last about 2 years or so. I think I need to build a pulse damper cause my diaphragm pump beats up everything.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Rather then start a new thread about this, those of you with the AEM kit it says up to a 50% mixture is allowed. Anyone running 100%?

Looking to run straight methanol so i need a kit that will work.

Also does the AEM kit use a solenoid to control flow or does the AEM box PWM the pump?

I see alot of company's use the bypass pumps now but they still PWM the pump. It seems the "pulsation" they claim it gets rid of by using a bypass pump would still be present by PWM'ing the bypass pump. Maybe not?

 

[CajunKenny]

Just got my AEM kit last week.

I am running the Maft Pro in Speed Density mode and am wondering if the water/meth would have any ill affects on the Air Temp Sensor.

I'm with arz on mounting the nozzle just after the IC; but, then my air temp sensor would be getting a water/meth shower.

One thought is that it may damage the sensor and my other thought is that it would alter the Maft's SD calculations in a negative way. Maybe my solution is to relocate my air temp sensor to be in front of the nozzle instead of behind it...?

My thoughts in regards to boost is to have my EBC Low Boost mode be set at ~14 psi and Hi Boost mode be at ~20psi. Then set the AEM to start progressively injecting at 16psi. That way I can daily drive it at 14psi and never spray. This was mainly a thought to conserve the water/meth.

Any ideas/input...?

 

[tekdeus]

I think many guys use straight meth with the AEM kit, even though the manual says not to. Ken, I'd guess that water/meth would probably overcool a temp sensor, as the wet meth evaporates off it.

I set my AEM kit to start spraying at 5psi for two reasons. If I'm going up a long hill it is easy to unintentionally hit over 5psi while the stock ECU maintains 14.7 AFR because it is only at part throttle; a possible knock risk. Also, my turbo spools fast and I don't want any dry time above 15psi while the meth takes a small moment to get going. Mixing your own water and meth makes it cheap enough to run it all the time. Plus you will have to retune for the extra fuel added by the meth. I pulled a fair bit of fuel on my SAFC to accommodate the 50/50 mix.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Tekdeus: Your running the 48/52 mix? Im so undecided on what i want to run, i want the benefits of the high octane as my car will never see race fuel in the tank and im looking for big power. So i read up and it seems some people like 100% and some people like 50%.

Any experience with other kits other then the AEM, like snow or cooling mist?

I see you got up to 22psi, your still on TCCS right? What kind of IAT's were you seeing? Any idea what kind of timing you were running at that boost level? How much does your injection alter fuel ratio?

Im lookin for 25 psi pump gas with methanol inj, 500+ Tire power.

 

[gofastgeorge]

Question.........
(or brain fart)

Could one possibly run nitrous nozzles, like the soft plume, and.......
two seperate pumps, one with water, the other with alky?

Then control each pumps speed (delivery) & jet size seperately to be able to 'tune' the system & the mix ratio?

 

[3.0 GT]

just a question, what is the capacity of the windshield washer tank? i want to run a methanol injection system and i dont want another tank somewhere and i like IJ's setup using the washer fluid tank but how much fluid does it hold? thanks

 

[IJ.]

I get 3.0L usable from the bigger 89+ washer reservoir I use.
(this leaves around a litre left as a safeguard and to wash the screen if needed)

 

[CajunKenny]

I think many guys use straight meth with the AEM kit, even though the manual says not to. Ken, I'd guess that water/meth would probably overcool a temp sensor, as the wet meth evaporates off it.

I set my AEM kit to start spraying at 5psi for two reasons. If I'm going up a long hill it is easy to unintentionally hit over 5psi while the stock ECU maintains 14.7 AFR because it is only at part throttle; a possible knock risk. Also, my turbo spools fast and I don't want any dry time above 15psi while the meth takes a small moment to get going. Mixing your own water and meth makes it cheap enough to run it all the time. Plus you will have to retune for the extra fuel added by the meth. I pulled a fair bit of fuel on my SAFC to accommodate the 50/50 mix.

^I think that's the way to go. Thanks for that!

I'll have to do some more research on where to place my Air Temp Sensor....

Question.........
(or brain fart)

Could one possibly run nitrous nozzles, like the soft plume, and.......
two seperate pumps, one with water, the other with alky?

Then control each pumps speed (delivery) & jet size seperately to be able to 'tune' the system & the mix ratio?

This seems like it would be a lot more work than what it's worth. The failure risk would also increase because now you've got two of everything. Would there be any benefit to running it this way...?

Also, it seems like you'd have a more consistent mix ratio with a single tank. In your idea, if one of the pumps/nozzles waiver/fail for whatever reason, then your mix is off and so would be your tune.

Those are my thoughts anyway...

 

[gofastgeorge]

This seems like it would be a lot more work than what it's worth. The failure risk would also increase because now you've got two of everything. Would there be any benefit to running it this way...?

Also, it seems like you'd have a more consistent mix ratio with a single tank. In your idea, if one of the pumps/nozzles waiver/fail for whatever reason, then your mix is off and so would be your tune.

Those are my thoughts anyway...

Good points.
I was thinking along the lines of nozzle design, and spray pattern,
thus allowing placement closer to the intake port on the lower runners.
Maybe ditch the dual supply thing, and just use the nozzles......

 

[IJ.]

 

[3.0 GT]

sorry to thread jack again but its on the same subject and i dont think it needs its own thread, but, would i be safe to run meth/water injection without a wideband and some way to tune it? right now i have lexus afm and 550cc injectors on a 57trim ct with stock exhaust and at 15psi if i dont run 93 octane it feels slower. i dont hear any knock it just doesnt seem to pull as hard. might be the ecu pulling some timing but idk and i would like to not have to run 93 all the time but i also dont want to turn down the boost. thanks

 

[grimreaper]

ijs setup is waht you NEED to do with a ffim. There are several 2j threads with guys waisting motors with a single nozzle in front of the tb due to lack of flow to the #1 cylinder.

ken your killing me man, when did you get meth?!? now i have to get it...

good thing with the maft pro is you can pull the timing you add in with decreasing the airflow singnal. REALLY hodge podge now that ive seen a few cars tuned full standalone.

Feels slower is really hard to "diagnose" if you will. bigger turbo, higher boost (higher then stock) and i wouldnt dream of running anything less then 91/93. If you really feel the difference then thank your lucky stars knock control is saving your HG . there is a limit to how much the stock tccs can pull but from my logs, you SHOULD notice if it was pulling 10*. -5* made a HUGE difference on spool up and top end when i was messing with timing control on the m-pro. Seriously HUGE from back to back pulls.

Ken stick the nozzle a few inches in front of the tb, Your AIT is upstream of that and you should be fine. Im considering straight water for an added cooling affect at the top of 4th. My Egt's hit 1600 easily with any sort of hill at 11: 1 af ratio at 16psi...

 

[3.0 GT]

ijs setup is waht you NEED to do with a ffim. There are several 2j threads with guys waisting motors with a single nozzle in front of the tb due to lack of flow to the #1 cylinder.

ken your killing me man, when did you get meth?!? now i have to get it...

good thing with the maft pro is you can pull the timing you add in with decreasing the airflow singnal. REALLY hodge podge now that ive seen a few cars tuned full standalone.

Feels slower is really hard to "diagnose" if you will. bigger turbo, higher boost (higher then stock) and i wouldnt dream of running anything less then 91/93. If you really feel the difference then thank your lucky stars knock control is saving your HG . there is a limit to how much the stock tccs can pull but from my logs, you SHOULD notice if it was pulling 10*. -5* made a HUGE difference on spool up and top end when i was messing with timing control on the m-pro. Seriously HUGE from back to back pulls.

Ken stick the nozzle a few inches in front of the tb, Your AIT is upstream of that and you should be fine. Im considering straight water for an added cooling affect at the top of 4th. My Egt's hit 1600 easily with any sort of hill at 11: 1 af ratio at 16psi...

i dont have to worry about blowing the head gasket beacuse im ruuning a mhg, ill just blow holes in other things lol:aigo:. but yeah i guess i should bite the bullet and pay for 93 gas. but should i go with meth or tuning stuff (wideband and piggyback) next? i have the full exhaust turbo back in my garage so thats covered.