LSx coils

[northwestsupra]

im trying to see if anyone else has wired up the stock 7mgte ignitor and coil to a stand alone system, and how you went about doing it. i am personally wiring it to a vipec 44 with 4 ignition drives via wasted spark. this is about all i've found on it via tsrm

thanks again.

 

[figgie]

not happening,

the way the OEM system works, not to many standalone support it unless it is an AEM v1 specifically for the MKIII.

you will need a different ignitor.

 

[northwestsupra]

ok then what are some alternatives to this little problem? keep in mind i have a small budget

 

[northwestsupra]

so far the only thing i've seen has been a 1995 3000gt igniter. with stock coils. or the HKS twin power, or DLI system

 

[IJ.]

3 single channel ignitors from pickapart works if you're keeping it batch fire.

6x LSx Coils with built in ignitors is also an option for full sequential or can be batch fired, they can be had new very cheap.

 

[northwestsupra]

thank you for the clear answer ian, like i said in post #1 i only have 4 ign drivers so full sequential is outta the question. only batch/wasted spark will be available for me

 

[IJ.]

LSx Coils in sort of batch fire then, as each has it's own ignitor you don't suffer any voltage/current drop like you do with siamese coils.

PM Big Rob for a part number on the Coils he found, very affordable.

 

[Jeff Lange]

2JZ VVT-i Igniter works well, as it is a wasted spark setup, but does not use a multiplexed system like the 7M does. Very good alternative.

Jeff

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Im running a 3000GT Ignitor. ~100 bucks from Advance Auto. Even after trying the diode setup that some people had luck with i had to change to a individual channel ignitor.

 

[northwestsupra]

LSx Coils in sort of batch fire then, as each has it's own ignitor you don't suffer any voltage/current drop like you do with siamese coils.

PM Big Rob for a part number on the Coils he found, very affordable.

ok i sent a pm to him, ill post up the number for any future people in search for the answer maybe with a title change to like 7mgte ignition alternatives we could sticky this maybe in the stand alone section. lsx coils. we are talking like ls1 ls2 ls3 etc.. right.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS1-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

this is bout the best i've seen for a ls2 setup, this is my guess at what it is.

 

[northwestsupra]

ls1 I believe. They were the "round body" style.

Delphi number: D514A "these are LS2 coils"

GM: 12573190

this is the pm i got from big rob for anyone else interested in them, ill keep you posted on my plans. but this seems to be a good route as long as it wont have spark blow out

list of vehicles that these coils are in. there may be more

BUICK ALLURE 2008 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
BUICK LACROSSE 2008-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
BUICK RAINIER 2005-07 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
CADILLAC CTS-V 2006-07 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin U
CADILLAC ESCALADE 2007-09 V8-378ci 6.2L F/I Vin 8
CADILLAC ESCALADE 2009 V8-364ci 6.0L ELECTRIC/F Vin 5
CHEVROLET AVALANCHE 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
CHEVROLET AVALANCHE 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 3
CHEVROLET AVALANCHE 2007-09 V8-325cI 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin J
CHEVROLET AVALANCHE 2007-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
CHEVROLET COLORADO 2009 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin L
CHEVROLET CORVETTE 2006 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin H
CHEVROLET CORVETTE 2005-07 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin U
CHEVROLET CORVETTE 2008-09 V8-376ci 6.2L F/I Vin W
CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 2006-09 V8-427ci 7.0L F/I Vin E
CHEVROLET IMPALA 2008-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET IMPALA SS 2006-07 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO SS 2006-07 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin J
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 3
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2007-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L F/I Vin 8
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 2500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 3500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
CHEVROLET SSR 2005-06 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin H
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 3
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin J
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 1500 2007-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 2500 2007-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
CHEVROLET TAHOE 2007-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET TAHOE 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin J
CHEVROLET TAHOE 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
CHEVROLET TAHOE 2008-09 V8-364ci 6.0L ELECTRIC/F Vin 5
CHEVROLET TAHOE 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER 2005-09 V8-323ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER SS 2006-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin H
CHEVROLET VAN G1500 1/2TON EXPRESS 2009 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin 4
CHEVROLET VAN G2500 3/4TON EXPRESS 2008-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET VAN G2500 3/4TON EXPRESS 2008-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
CHEVROLET VAN G3500 1 TON EXPRESS 2008-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
CHEVROLET VAN G3500 1 TON EXPRESS 2008-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
GMC CANYON 2009 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin L
GMC ENVOY DENALI 2005-09 V8-323ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin J
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 3
GMC SIERRA 1500 2007-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
GMC SIERRA 1500 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
GMC SIERRA 1500 2009 V8-364ci 6.0L ELECTRIC/F Vin 5
GMC SIERRA 2500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
GMC SIERRA 3500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
GMC SIERRA DENALI 2007-08 V8-6199cc 6.2L F/I Vin 8
GMC SIERRA DENALI 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
GMC VAN G1500 1/2 TON SAVANA 2009 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin 4
GMC VAN G2500 3/4 TON SAVANA 2008-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
GMC VAN G2500 3/4 TON SAVANA 2008-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
GMC VAN G3500 1 TON SAVANA 2008-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
GMC VAN G3500 1 TON SAVANA 2008-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
GMC YUKON 2007-09 V8-294ci 4.8L F/I Vin C
GMC YUKON 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin J
GMC YUKON 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
GMC YUKON 2008-09 V8-364ci 6.0L ELECTRIC/F Vin 5
GMC YUKON DENALI 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
GMC YUKON DENALI 2007-09 V8-378ci 6.2L F/I Vin 8
GMC YUKON XL 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 0
GMC YUKON XL 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L FLEX/FI Vin 3
GMC YUKON XL 1500 2007-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin J
GMC YUKON XL 1500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
GMC YUKON XL 1500 DENALI 2008-09 V8-6199cc 6.2L F/I Vin 8
GMC YUKON XL 1500 DENALI 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
GMC YUKON XL 2500 2007-09 V8-366ci 6.0L F/I Vin K
HUMMER H2 2008 V8-378ci 6.2L F/I Vin 8
HUMMER H2 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L FLEX/FI Vin 2
HUMMER H3 2008-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin L
ISUZU ASCENDER 2005-06 V8-323ci 5.3L F/I Vin M
PONTIAC G8 2008-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin Y
PONTIAC G8 GXP 2009 V8-376ci 6.2L F/I Vin W
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 2005-08 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin C
PONTIAC GTO 2005-06 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin H
SAAB 9 - 7X 2008-09 V8-364ci 6.0L F/I Vin H
SAAB 9 - 7X 2005-09 V8-325ci 5.3L F/I Vin M\


link to the connectors for them

http://roblinstores.com/cables/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=6

took me a while to find this but on the site it says it fits d581 and d585, but looking further into it, the connector is the same for
D581 (12558693) Truck Coil
D585 (10457730-Delco, 19005218-Delphi) Truck Coil
D513A (12570616) LS2/LS7 First Design
D514A (12573190) LS2/LS7 Second Design

here is a picture from the site and what it looks like after its all together.

here are some part numbers i found to
The coil mounting brackets are 10457736 (GM part number), two brackets needed. these are actually for the d585 "truck coils" i dont know if these are the same brackets though"
The coil harnesses are 12601824 (GM part number) two harnesses needed. this is a stock harness for them for anyone who is in-capable or lazy and just wants it all to be finished with

WIRING THE SYSTEM UP
here is the wiring diagram i pulled from megasquirt

SETTINGS AND STAND-ALONE CONFIGURATION
The dwell should be set at 5 milliseconds input pulse trigger - going longer does not generate any more spark current.

To get 5.0 milliseconds of running dwell, the nominal dwell parameters should be set to:

Maximum Dwell 5.5 milliseconds
Maximum Spark Duration 2.0 milliseconds
Acceleration Compensation 0.5 milliseconds

Battery Voltage Compensation
Setting
-4.0
-2.0
0.0
2.0
4.0
Net Voltage
8.0 Volts
10.0 Volts
12.0 Volts
14.0 Volts
16.0 Volts
Dwell Compensation
0.9 milliseconds
0.0 milliseconds
-0.5 milliseconds
-0.9 milliseconds

This will give 5.5 - 0.5 = 5.0 milliseconds at 14.0 volts while running with the alternator charging normally.

ALL OF THIS INFORMATION WAS PULLED FROM THIS PAGE. UNDER THE LS2 SECTION
http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm

Video of it in action
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6218245369765754251&hl=en#

 

[Big Rob]

Here are the dwell settings I received from IJ. via Motec Aus:


Volts Bat Comp (msec)
8 12.6
9 11.9
10 10.9
11 8.3
12 6.0
13 4.9
14 4.2
15 3.6

From my research the connectors are the same for the LS2 coils (Delphi D513A/GM 12570616). In the near future there is a possibility that I will have data for the spark energy of both the LS2 and LS1 coil for comparison.

I would not bother with the GM coil mounting brackets but would fab one from aluminium/steel sheet as the GM part is designed to only secure 4 coils to the LS rocker cover. For inspiration here is how IJ. mounted his LS2 coils in his A70:

 

[northwestsupra]

thank you for dropping that information off. lots of good info here now

 

[Flateric]

I'm running full sequential setup with LS1 coils and find it to be a far more stable powerfull arrangement than my stock JZ coils have ever been. But correct me if I'm wrong here but running ANY LSx coil setup required a standalone due to the need to adjust the coil dwell correctly. IF not then I highly suggest the LSx coil setup for both more powerful spark and value. You get 8 of em generally in a set and that gives you 2 spares, usually for less the the price of a single new JZ coils would cost. Up here in Canada land thats the case anyways. Mine even included the plugs for the engine side of the harness as well.

But as I said I run a standalone and was under the impression that dwell adjustment is fairly critical to this setup. Actually my standalone (AEM series 2) won't even start the motor unless I make this dwell adjustment between coil setups first.

(Wow I came into this convo late, looks like you guys got this all handled up nicely now though)

Oh and damned nice custom coil mounts! Very slick.

And as a side note for anyone doing this with LS1 coils the pins for the coils are exactly flipped compared to the ls2 coil pinouts. So essentially just switch the "notch" of the plug to the opposing side and your good. I do not however know if the dwell and such are the same. I somehow doubt it would be, but I don't actually know.

 

[northwestsupra]

I'm running full sequential setup with LS1 coils and find it to be a far more stable powerfull arrangement than my stock JZ coils have ever been. But correct me if I'm wrong here but running ANY LSx coil setup required a standalone due to the need to adjust the coil dwell correctly. IF not then I highly suggest the LSx coil setup for both more powerful spark and value. You get 8 of em generally in a set and that gives you 2 spares, usually for less the the price of a single new JZ coils would cost. Up here in Canada land thats the case anyways. Mine even included the plugs for the engine side of the harness as well.

But as I said I run a standalone and was under the impression that dwell adjustment is fairly critical to this setup. Actually my standalone (AEM series 2) won't even start the motor unless I make this dwell adjustment between coil setups first.

(Wow I came into this convo late, looks like you guys got this all handled up nicely now though)

Oh and damned nice custom coil mounts! Very slick.

And as a side note for anyone doing this with LS1 coils the pins for the coils are exactly flipped compared to the ls2 coil pinouts. So essentially just switch the "notch" of the plug to the opposing side and your good. I do not however know if the dwell and such are the same. I somehow doubt it would be, but I don't actually know.

if you are wanting to run any kind of after market ignition system on a 7m, jz series engine, actually almost every engine out there you will need a system to control the ignition system, some piggy backs have that abillity but not many, all stand alones have this option.

as for your comment on the wiring of ls1 and dwell settings here you are for anyone else interested in that

The LS1 coils do not fully saturate until around 8 milliseconds, but the spark energy does not increase much when the dwell exceeds 6 milliseconds. So stick with a 'running' dwell setting near the design value of 5.6 to 5.8 milliseconds.

Maximum Dwell 6.1 milliseconds
Maximum Spark Duration 2.0 milliseconds
Acceleration Compensation 0.6 milliseconds

Battery Voltage Compensation
Setting Net Voltage Dwell Compensation
-4.0 8.0 Volts 2.4 milliseconds
-2.0 10.0 Volts 0.9 milliseconds
0.0 12.0 Volts 0.0 milliseconds
2.0 14.0 Volts -0.5 milliseconds
4.0 16.0 Volts -0.9 milliseconds

---------- Post added at 03:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 AM ----------

I would not bother with the GM coil mounting brackets but would fab one from aluminium/steel sheet as the GM part is designed to only secure 4 coils to the LS rocker cover. For inspiration here is how IJ. mounted his LS2 coils in his A70:

i was thinking i'd probably just make a bracket that will hold 3 on each valve cover, idk though ill think about it when i see it. or maybe i will run it on the firewall like i was originally planning.

 

[Big Rob]

On a 7M I would place the coils on the cam covers. IJ's setup makes sense due to the location of the spark plug on an LS2 and his exhaust manifold.

Here are the dwell settings for the LS2 coils, again from Motec Aus via IJ:

Batt V Dwell
8V 10.2ms
9v 9.2
10v 7.4
11v 5.5
12v 4.4
13v 3.8
14v 3.3
15V 2.9

If you search ebay for "D514A" you can pick the coils up individually for no more than $20 USD each.

 

[northwestsupra]

i know i've seen them there already the pigtails were the only issue untill i found that link i posted. "can you verify that those are the right plugs"?

 

[Big Rob]

The connector plug for the wiring harness?

All I can do is check if IJ's harness will plug onto the LS1 coil I bought. Will that be sufficient?

His plugs are from a GM Holden harness to suit a domestic over here.

 

[northwestsupra]

theres a picture above that i placed on here, is that the connector for the ls2. the ls1 sounds like it was different it just has 4 pin holes, while ls2 has 4 used pin holes but 4 holes used to keep it straight.

 

[IJ.]

Rob's Coil physically plugs into my harness.