Lotus-born suspension on the MKIII Supra?

[flubyux2]

I have to add my 2cents, i cant resist:

For the record,

the 1986 toyota supra had a suspension 100% designed and engineered by Lotus. the supra carried this suspension design and specs all thru development. initial trials proved the lotus-engineered suspension to be all that and a bag of chips. it was firm, nimble, agile with positive-feed back and great road holding. the 2 or 3 prototypes that toyota had were revealed to the press for initial impressions and documentation. The presses predominantly focused on how harsh the new supra rode and how its road compliance was less than desirable. it was more of uncomfortable of a ride than the press thought a GT car should be. so before Toyota was to make the Supra available to the public, they went back to the drawing boards and revised the spring rates and shock valving to make it more compliant of a ride and sacrifice ultimate road holding capability for the sake of getting good press reviews.

thank the media for your 4x4, squishy, bouncy, wallowing, pudgey fat-kit trying to act cool, of a Grand touring car.

its funny how the MKIV turned out more how like Toyota intended the MK3 to originally be... apparantly times changed between the release of the Mk3 and the MKIV. stupid old stodgey, fat-assed, lazy journalists of the 80's...

/gravedig

 

[PROJECT N00b]

i think lotus still has connections with toyota since the lotus elise and exige use MR-S motors.

 

[flubyux2]

possibly... but that may not guarantee they are in kahootz. Aerial uses honda motors in the Atom but i dont think honda is directly connected.

Saab uses Subaru motors in the 92x but i dont think saab is partnered w/ them.

it could just be a supplier/customer basis...

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

Uhhh, The Saab 92X is a Subaru Imprezza wearing Saab Drag, Ever Hear Saabaru?

And for the record the Exige and Elise use the engine from a Celica GT-S, the 2ZZ-GE as opposed to the gutless piece of shit 1ZZ-fE as found in the MR-S

Aerial uses Honda motors because you can't fucking break them haha.

 

[flubyux2]

yes i have heard of saabaru... i actually like that so much better than the WRX wagon. but if saab isnt partially owned by subaru or vice versa, then that reinforces my statement that it could just be Saab buying cars from Subaru, rebadging them and selling them as their own...

just like a Saturn Vue using the J32 honda V6, or that the Kia Sorrento is basically an RX330... that kinda thing.

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

I believe its because GM owns part of Fuji Heavy(who produces Subaru Cars)

I believe Toyota Actually owns a good portion of Fuji Heavy now.

 

[Poodles]

not only that, they trade assembly line use...

hence the vibe/matrix, toyota cavilier (ick), ect...

yes, toyota has quite a large share of suby now, hopefully they make some sweet cars... how about a supra style car with the drivetrain of an STi?

oh, and the MKIII could easily be lowered a bit to get the lower arms parallel to the ground like they should be idealy...

 

[Figit090]

I have to add my 2cents, i cant resist:

For the record,
.... it was firm, nimble, agile with positive-feed back and great road holding.
thank the media for your 4x4, squishy, bouncy, wallowing, pudgey fat-kit trying to act cool, of a Grand touring car.


/gravedig

that's really interesting. That original design and setup can still be achieved though...all the stuff minus shocks is there still, right? I know it would have been better stock like that but my point is just if we can still get the performance we were supposed to....

Man...i felt like my car was sporty i wonder what the hell an mr2 or race-tuned (suspension) supra drives like.... i have yet to experiance either.

 

[flubyux2]

race tuned, as in... GroupA? the pics that were in the groupA thread on here made the MK3 look as if it could actually Turn, and not Suck at it.

 

[Typhoon]

I dunno, do you think the US spec cars sit a little higher stock than other markets?
This an Aus spec car:

All I can say is the Supra, stock, is a good compromise between real world driving (driveways, gutters, mid corner bumps) and proper sports handling. It is no mid engined sports car, if I'd wanted one of them, I'd have bought a Mr2 or similar.
I just drove mine up a mountain in the rain, exceptionally stable, very good feedback, and let you know well in advance that things are getting a little weird in torque delivery land.
I had the back walk out a few times under power, in straight lines, trying to accelerate out of corners. Put the power in smoothly, and the rear just wants to start walking at around 60 km/h! Easily controlled and fun.
Once I was done with the mountain, I flicked on teh cruise control and enjoyed a very nice touring car.

Regards, Andrew.

 

[Poodles]

agreed...

the 89 models where lowered a bit, but there where MANY different springs over the years (at least per the TSRM)

I find the car got scary if you got it too sideways and it all of a sudden would bite in and throw you the other way violently. I consider myself a damn good driver, but it was tough to keep under control when this happened.

It's still a sports car though, compare it to something utilitarian like a Camry of it's time, ect and you'll realize the difference immediately...

Sadly the Supra is more comfortable than a Camry...

 

[IJ.]

Mk2 suspension design=practice

Mk3=Perfection

 

[Typhoon]

agreed...

the 89 models where lowered a bit, but there where MANY different springs over the years (at least per the TSRM)

I find the car got scary if you got it too sideways and it all of a sudden would bite in and throw you the other way violently. I consider myself a damn good driver, but it was tough to keep under control when this happened.

It's still a sports car though, compare it to something utilitarian like a Camry of it's time, ect and you'll realize the difference immediately...

Sadly the Supra is more comfortable than a Camry...

Hmm, yes, it is easy to forget these cars were designed around 1985, and at that time, were pretty impressive, especially coming from Toyota, who up until that time had not had a car that had such levels of refinement, handling and horsepower. They had built cars with each of these attributes, but not all together. Hell, compare it to a current Camry.......I hate how modern cars are trumpeted as being the best, more refined, but you ride in them, and all you can hear is MacPherson struts banging and sticking away....pisses me off frankly. Cheap solution disguised as "teh best".
I think the reason the Supra can bite back is load transfer, there is some body roll, and rear suspension is fairly soft in roll as well. I think you get some sort of load transfer/torque couple thing happening front to rear, and the rear unloads.
I've owned a few cars that did this, as you said, it is a brown adrenaline moment. Fortunately in the wet, traction does not come back suddenly enough for things to get interesting.
I intend to do a track dy in the Supra soonish, helps to understand the car. I need to check some things out first though. Photos will be posted.

Regards, Andrew.

 

[ViR2]

or that the Kia Sorrento is basically an RX330... that kinda thing.

Woah! Stop there, Kia has nothing to do with Toyota, they have just copied front of the RX

 

[pogoism9]

i think lotus still has connections with toyota since the lotus elise and exige use MR-S motors.

Correction - Celica GTS motors. MR2 has the 1ZZ-FE while the GTS, Elise, and Exige all used the 2ZZ-FE motor, Lotus tuned the 2ZZ to make 190hp while Toyota opted for their tune which was 180.

 

[bowsercake]

2ZZ-GE, not FE. The F and G heads are of a different design. The M and JZ use the G type heads while the UZ engines use the F type heads. I think it has something to do with the cam angles.

 

[foreverpsycotic]

Mk2 suspension design=practice

Mk3=Perfection

Everything is perfection when you tweak it.

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

2ZZ-GE, not FE. The F and G heads are of a different design. The M and JZ use the G type heads while the UZ engines use the F type heads. I think it has something to do with the cam angles.

Cam angles in sort.

F was an economy design
G was agressive and for performance

 

[Dominus1222]

Elise, Exige= 2zz-ge
Exige s = supercharged 2zz-ge:evil2:

 

[flubyux2]

cam angle? sort of, more like valve angle.

GM sold off their shares of Subaru, i think it was sometime last year.

kia has NOTHING to do with toyota? just like hyundai had nothing to do with mitsubishi in the sonata? lol