Ideas for my fuel system: sump the tank, aditional intank pump?

[Reign_Maker]

Today I pulled my fuel tank out... Im trying to figure out what I wanna do for my fuel system... I have an Aeromotive A1000 external... My old set up was using a Bosche external pump and a stock in tank fuel pump...


************ Allow me to take a moment to make a note here... Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls: NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER buy a "BUILT" car unless you KNOW for a FACT its been built... Like, I dunno, lets just SAY the previous owner tells you that it has a Walbro intank pump to back up the Bosche external pump, dont believe them... Sorta like when they say there are JE forged pistons inside, dont believe them... Unless they have either A: pics or B: all reciepts... (this has been a BIG lesson for your big bro Jake to learn) Never again...

Oh, and you guys should see the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump... I'll get pics tomorrow, didnt have my cam with me... But it's "S" shaped with each curve BADLY crimped and the line is rubber, and its cracked all over the curves... Im suprised I even had fuel pressure... And Im suprised I never sprung a leak...

Anyway, back to the question at hand... Should I sump the tank or should I just tap the back of the tank? And feed fuel directly to the A1000... Or should I get a Walbro pump to feed fuel to the A1000? There is now an AN fitting welded to my fuel line coming from the tank, but that hard line is really narrow...

I dunno guys, Im at a cross roads here... Ideas.. Input... Experiences... All welcome...

Jake

*BTW: for those that dont know, Im shooting for over 700hp on a GT4067R turbo... So far my fuel system employs 1000cc RC ENg injectors, Paxton FPR, Paxton in line fuel filter, and braided fuel lines...

 

[jmanbball]

Fuel Cell!

 

[Zach]

The A1000 isn't designed to run continuously, and aeromotive's control box that allows it to do so is the size of a medium speaker amp. I say take the money from selling the aeromotive and get the billet hanger from ManicTech and a couple of walbros, then do stainless line from that bulkhead fitting.

 

[SySt]

I would mount a fuel cell from ATL or Fuel Safe. Complete with a bladder and foam, possibly a surge tank. I would also run 2 Walbro 255lph pumps. This is my actual current setup. Now onto the differences as it seems you are looking for high hp. Run -8 AN fuel line to feed the rail. I would also run an adjustable FPR and 800cc or so injectors.

 

[X-man]

Here is how I did mine and Dave B's and they have worked out fine. I drilled a hole in the middle of where the baffles were for the in tank pump and put a filter inside the tank screwed directly on the fitting. Ron R. initially came up with the set up on his car. Works great.

Sean

 

[kwnate]

Me too ^^^^

 

[Reign_Maker]

Im still debating the fuel cell thing... But that's alot of work, custom work... I'll have to put more thought into that...

I thought I read somewhere that the A1000s werent meant to run for more than 30 minutes, but why? heat?

Syst, I have 1000cc injectors, and Im getting two fuel rails from werewolves, and Im gunna try and do a dual feed 8-AN... I wonder if I did dual walbros if I could run an 8-AN from each one to the fuel rail...

Sean/Nate: what filter are you using? Model number? Where can I get it? Also, you guys having problems with long usage, and if so, how did you solve it? I'll be driving this car on 6+hour long trips, I cant have this thing messing up on me on the middle of I-75 somewhere...

 

[RacerXJ220]

I'm going with the setup that x-man posted on my 83. Got any part numbers for hose lengths, fittings, filter, and who made the bracket?

 

[CTsupra]

i've been pondering this site - www.customgastanks.com

 

[supra90turbo]

I like my ATL cell...
Dual -8an pickups at both rear corners of the tank and foam filled.
I'm going to tee them both off to a single line feeding into an aeromotive a1000. That should be sufficient

 

[tissimo]

run a voltage regulator on the a1000 then it should last.. no need for 13v when you only need 200-250 hp on the street..

Do what the others do w/ the a1000, works fine from what I've heard/seen...

imo dual intake walbros.. cut down on some noise..

 

[Slow66]

Bulkhead fitting in tank (like X-man posted) -> filter -> A1000 -> another filter -> y block -> either end of the rail.

If you plan on taking trips that long, the pump controller would be a good idea IMO.

 

[X-man]

I'm going with the setup that x-man posted on my 83. Got any part numbers for hose lengths, fittings, filter, and who made the bracket?

I built the bracket. I used a bulkhead fitting that was a male no#10 AN on both sides. The one in the tank is trimmed down to about an 1/8 th inch above the locknut and chamferred inside. I used a stock Toyota fuel filter off a stock Toyota fuel pump for a MKIII Supra and modified the bottom of it by trimming off the mounting tab and putting a 7/8" hole in the bottom of the fitler so you could screw it down on the 1/8 th inch of threads I left sticking up.

Here is a quick drawing.

Like Bryan said I would put a voltage controller on it for long periods of time. I have driven mine for an hour to an hour and a half non stop but never any farther.

Sean

 

[Reign_Maker]

Thanks Sean... Nice diagram... Sean, the bosche external that I was using had a voltage regulator, I think it was anyway... It was a little black box with connectors on the back, one was a ground, one went to my fuel pump, I think another went to the "key on" ignition and the other went to the battery... Is this what I need? Can I reuse that?

I still dont know why you cant run these things for long periods of time... I guess heat? Because intank pumps stay cool from the fuel, I guess... Im still learning about fuel systems... I understand how it works, but just tryin to understand these big systems and what they need to perform correctly...

 

[kwnate]

Sean/Nate: what filter are you using? Model number? Where can I get it? Also, you guys having problems with long usage, and if so, how did you solve it? I'll be driving this car on 6+hour long trips, I cant have this thing messing up on me on the middle of I-75 somewhere...

I've taken a 3 hour drive without issue, haven't had an issue after 30minutes either.

I'm using the aeromotive filters, six inch long. One pre pump, 10 micron and one aft pump 100 micron. I could have them backwards in my head... Read the instructions that came with the a1000 and it tells you what you need to do. Tank to pump I'm using -10 line, after that its -08 along with an aluminum hardline under the car, the back to -08 and the rail.

 

[SySt]

Hehe, that "black box" sounds like a relay to me. The reason everyone is saying to use a voltage regulator is that you only need full flow from the pump at your 700hp range or whatever. Part throttle applications to not require that much flow, however you pump will still flow the same fuel but it just gets by-passed by the fuel pressure regulator. So in part throttle applications you are spinning the pump way faster than it needs to be spun. A voltage regulator will correct that.

 

[Slow66]

Hehe, that "black box" sounds like a relay to me. The reason everyone is saying to use a voltage regulator is that you only need full flow from the pump at your 700hp range or whatever. Part throttle applications to not require that much flow, however you pump will still flow the same fuel but it just gets by-passed by the fuel pressure regulator. So in part throttle applications you are spinning the pump way faster than it needs to be spun. A voltage regulator will correct that.

^^^pretty much summed it up right there....

the easiest way to think of it is like the eqivalent of a elec. boost controller for the fuel pump... part throttle-spins it slower, and when the need arises, itll spin it at full voltage. IIRC the aeromotive unit needs an rpm signal to work properly. Itll also take place of a relay in the system, and i believe it has a failsafe mode too....

 

[Reign_Maker]

Well, there is a guy on here who was using the A1000, and would take really long road trips, like say, from canada to california, and he never had problems with the A1000... Im gunna put some thought into this... I appreciate the laymens terms though, it does make sense...

 

[X-man]

You might look into reuse of the original fuel pump resistor set up that the 7m-gte had from the factory. This would reduce voltage under cruise and low throttle applications and then crank it up when the hammer is dropped. I ran my Aeromotive for 2 years on the original Supra fuel pump wiring and relay(less resistor) and just now stepped it up to No#12 wiring. I ran 10 dyno runs in 2 hours taking time only to switch turbine housings and had zero problems. All of these runs were over 600 rwhp and 530 rwtq so fuel psi was base plus boost which was 33 psi + 30 psi = 63 pounds of fuel pressure.

Sean

 

[bitsnake]

looked on the aeromotive web-site just yesterday and saw a new "marine version" of the A1000. This should mean that the pump is good for continous running. i can´t imagine that the standard A1000 is manufactured so bad, that should be more an advertising thing. so i think you can use it also.

Personally i would go with the dual-intank setup. Maybe with walbros but Bosch 044 motorsport pumps or MkIV pumps prefered. Bosch would be cheaper and better. That gives a clean look and not as much construction work. And the dual-pump setup would bring some redundancy to the system, both pumps won´t fail at one time.

If that isn´t enough we have nice pumps here in germany, i searched one for a customer with 650-680 hp in mind last month. problem was he´s running bit more fuel pressure than normal. There´s one type produced by Pierburg thats fitted in the AMG´s from factory. see the product description Pierburg FuelPumps and look at the E3L series.
If traffic would allow it, you could run these pumps continously and drive 500 miles through germany with over 200 km/h speed and that without stop. Thats what they´re designed for, not for the quarter mile on a american drag-strip. That isn´t meant offending, just to show the technical difference in conditions of planned usage.

I would prefer the dual bosch setup. BTW: What fuel lines do you run to the front ?

John