I can help solve our national deficit

p5150

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Mar 31, 2005
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The petroleum import deficit amounted to 164 billion dollars in 2004 (will be much higher for 2005) http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/annual.html

This contributed to our record trade deficit.

The federal government actually pays people not to grow crops on their land. http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050223/edit23.art.htm

Instead, they should pay people smaller subsidies to actually grow crops and convert them to biodiesel to help kickstart the industry. We already have a good commercial base for the product......

Plus its better for the environment and your engine!

For those of you that are unfamiliar with the concept, educate yourselves: BIODIESEL google it.
 
L

lanky189

Guest
SP 7M said:
I'm down all though I can't grow things at my residence in HI because it's an apartment building.


Wanna bet? :crazy1:
 

tte

Breaking In - in progress
Mar 30, 2005
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What are you implying Lanky? That SP 7m would be able to grow stuff in his apartment...you mean like marijuana...lol

Cheers,
Roy
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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ok cool another good topic, have to bring this one up.. it doesnt count twords the deficit, but its money the USA spends in iraq war every hr...of every day.. of every yr..


ready for this?? $7.4 million per hour on the iraq war... 177mil per day.. i read this earlier tonight and it scares me... not sure where they get there #'s from but i have to think its not far off...

read this site...
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=171440+cost+of+war+a+day&hl=en
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
Apr 6, 2005
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supraman2251 said:
I just think we should sell texas... not sure many people would want it, but if anything else, alquada would make an offer! ;)
Texas is a conservative state. We need to keep it. I'm sure Mexico would love to have it back, but they already lost it. Tough shit, Mexico. Go find Aztlan (If you don't know, Google it) somewhere else.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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The national debt(different than a yearly deficit) is about equal to the total spent on Lyndon B Johnsons' "Great Society", which of course did not diminish the numbers in poverty, but instead increased the rate.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Just love posts where somebody says "let's save money by not spending it on a military/war" whatever.

Of course, we could spend the money at home, where we need it. How about on rebuilding homes for those who lost them in Katrina? Or how about a home for everyone in the USA regardless of what they do for a living. No more homeless would be a good thing right?
Food for everyone.
Jobs for everyone, but only if they wanted to work, since we would be remiss to make anyone work for a living in our perfect society of light rail connected villages....
Let's reduce pollution by limiting the number of cars on the road, and make them affordable by further limiting them to only a few designs, say two. One little one for everyone, and one larger one for parades and powerfull elected officials.
********
sound familliar? It's the old Russia at it's best. Everything for everyone, but really only a select few had anything, and everyone else was fed lies and worked like slaves for those in power.
** Let's look at China, the last remaining larger communist state. On the exterior, in the larger cities where they are making and shipping goods to the rest of the world, China appears very modern, and in some respects, a great place to live. Untill you look just a little bit deeper, and also into the heartland of China. There the citizens are little more than cheap slave labor. The conditions are beyond discription in this short post. To say it's bad is a understatement of epic proportions.

Be careful that you don't wish a communist existance on yourself here in the USA. Socialism is alive here more right now than it's ever been, and the socialists are saying things like "Let's spend the money at home..."

Bio fuels are not cost effective.
Minearal hydrocarbons are plentiful, and NOT FOSSIL based. (Read "Deep hot earth" by Thomas J. Gold. Also articles in the Wall Street Journal on this.) We are not running out of oil anytime soon, we have however allowed ourselves to be duped into the idea that we are, and this keeps prices up, and us dependant on oil from the outside. (The idea is not to use the oil we have here untill the rest of the world runs out of it. Of course, this idea is based on science that is WRONG, so we are limiting our own oil production, and using the once cheaper oil from outside the country, which has put us at a pretty serious disavantage when gas is over 3.00 per gallon.)

Ok, end of rant, but please don't say shit like saving money by spending it at home on people who don't appreciate it, and will only want more free money if you give them any. (Like a mouse, if you offer it a cookie, it's going to ask for more and some milk next time.) Make it work for the cookie, and it will appreciate the next one, and the milk when it earns them.
 

p5150

ASE and FAA A&P Certified
Mar 31, 2005
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Central Idaho
I disagree.

Bio Fuels ARE cost effective.

They would be even MORE cost effective if the government didnt pay certain farmers NOT TO GROW ANYTHING to keep commodity prices steady.

There are plenty of oil-producing crops that can be dry-farmed. Mustard.

Shouldnt we be spending part of that $120 billion on the farmers here instead of "Shelling" it out (Get it?) to foreign oil providers.

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/energy/
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
My point is the oil in the ground in the USA is more plentiful than you have been told to belive.

There is plenty of oil in the USA to provide all the oil we are going to need for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OR MORE.

Not just 20 more years. Or 50, or 100, or 300, but perhaps 500,000 years? Perhaps more.

Grow crops you can eat.
Burn hydrocarbons as fuel, make plastics from them and all the other great stuff we can make from the earth. (Iron, gold, gems and hydrocarbons are all earth based materials that make your life what it is today.)

Like your computer? It's metals, plastics and silicones are all mined or taken from the earth.
Like your house? It's built from the trees planted before you were born. But those same trees get planted again, and will be around to build houses for kids not even though of yet.
Like your Supra? It's metal, glass and plastic all are from the earth. The leather is from cows, and I sure hope they were tasty steaks and hamburgers, not to mention the bone meal and other byproducts we all benefit from everyday from using the earth, animals and everything else to make our lives better. (Helps to be at the top of the food chain, but even lower forms of life benefit from the upper ones.)

I'm no beliver in farm subsidies. That's communism at work here in the USA. Call it welfare for the famers, and you'd be closer to the truth.
I also want to make sure the farms are growning what we need from year to year. This program can be argued to help do that, but in reality, it's just keeps many in farming when that industry has changed so much that many are not needed to work in it anymore. (Automation has changed the way we build cars and everything else, and it's also changed the way we plant, grow and harvest our food.) It takes less people to get more crops done lately. That is just how it goes.

I worked for Nestle in two french fry plants. They would contract with various potato growers, and then process those spuds after harvest. Agriculture is big business, and little farms have been pushed aside by the larger ones that can be competitive in this arena. The farmer who might try and go it alone is going to be out of money and broke in short order.

Back on topic however. You can't solve the money problems of this country by only spending money at home. The money we are spending right now in Iraq and Afganistan is an investment in trying to change the opinion of the islamic residents of those areas of the world. If we do not change the way radical Islam looks at the USA, we are going to be caught up in a world war of epic size eventually.

Has everyone forgotten that Islamic terrorists planned and executed the 911 event? Have you guys forgotten the buildings falling down, the death and distruction, and the other plans crashing into the Pentagon and PA? How about the Marines killed in Beruit? Or the embassy bombings? The fall of the Shaw of Iran and so many other Islamic "victory celbrations" world wide? These people dance in the street and hand out candy to the kids when they see us die and cry. How much more of an enemy do you need?
 
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p5150

ASE and FAA A&P Certified
Mar 31, 2005
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Central Idaho
There is one major problem with drilling oil out of the ground.

You are introducing additional carbon to the cycle. By growing what you burn, your oil producing crops reduce the overall levels of CO2 in the environment.

I really dont think its practical to grow everything that we burn. However, we could definately put a dent in the problem
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Introducing carbon to the cycle is a theory that is again, being proven false by research.

Our effect is minimal compared to natural releases of co2 into the atmosphere. (Man's effect that is.)

Here is something to consider.
Methane gas is a better insulator than co2. (Heck, water vapor is by far the largest atmospheric insulator we deal with.)
There is more methane released by termites than humans by a large amount. And that is just one insect species. Combine them all, and other "natural" sources of these gases, and you find the atmosphere is changing constantly, and that man has little to do with the process.

Even our amounts of "smog" are trivial compared to just one volcano, or a release of frozen methane from the sea floor for example.

I don't have a problem with "bio fuels" I just don't see them being viable compared to hydrocarbon based fuels cost wise.

I think it is a great idea to recycle used cooking oil into bio diesel. Infact, I think diesel is a great fuel, and the new cleaner burning direct injection turbo charged diesel motors are long over due here in the USA. (Europe has enjoyed them for a decade, but we are just barely going to see them start to show up as the high sulfer content of US grade diesel fuel comes into line with that of the rest of the world.) Imagine having a smooth running twin or tri turbo diesel engine in your car that makes 500+ft lbs of tourqe, gets you 30+ mpg on the higway. Sounds too good to be true? They already exist.

To be able to switch over to used McDonalds cooking oil if you want to, or a form of grown fuel in states where corn or other crops can be grown cheaply, I'm for that as long as we are not paying our tax dollars to just be "green" in the face of cheaper fuels.
 

p5150

ASE and FAA A&P Certified
Mar 31, 2005
1,176
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36
Central Idaho
Adjuster said:
To be able to switch over to used McDonalds cooking oil if you want to, or a form of grown fuel in states where corn or other crops can be grown cheaply, I'm for that as long as we are not paying our tax dollars to just be "green" in the face of cheaper fuels.

Thats the problem though! Our government subsudizes the cost of oil! Your tax dollars go to foreign oil sheiks and big oil companies. Wouldnt you rather have part of it diverted to farmers to encourage an eco (ECOnomically and ECOlogy) friendly fuel?
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Ok, this is a completely different subject, but it deals with taxes being spent.

After 911, we had a great opportunity to increase our oil supplies, but failed to do anything about it.

What we could have done, was to have passed laws with a 5 year plan.
1) We subsidize the cost of developing new sources of oil in areas OUTSIDE of the middle east. (I suggest Siberia, ANWAR and Canda.)
2) We promote US owned and operated oil companies to build the refineries, and other infastructure to supply us with plentiful oil for the next 100 years or more.

What effect would this have had?

I belive it would have collapsed OPEC. With all this available oil to our North, and coming from places not plaged by religious idiots, we would be able to enjoy correctly priced oil and gas here in North America (and the world).

The oil and gas is there. We know it's there. The Canadians know they have the largest reserve of oil and gas outside of Saudi Arabia, and the Siberians suspect that the geology being similar is going to prove the same deal exists there as well. We have for years capped wells here in the USA to buy our oil "cheaper" from the middle east. OPEC priced it cheaper to undercut the domestic producers of oil, and it worked great. Many wells and companies here in the USA and elsewhere in the world went out of business, or were bought up by larger companies.

When OPEC had a captive market, they then raised prices and became billionaires. The larger oil companies also have profited due to the fact they don't need to worry about prices for crude, they are just mostly middlemen in so many cases anymore. (If they do own the wells, then even better for them when the prices are higher.... )

Next to "global warming" I think that the idea we are going to run out of oil soon is the other huge lie of the century. Oil and gas is plentiful, and will not run out for many hundreds of thousands of years. The sooner we all realize this, and stop treating it like "black gold" the better. I think 15.00 per 55gal of crude is about right given the cost to find/drill and ship it. At that price, the Saudi's are going to still get rich, but not like they are at the current 50+ prices. Who do you think is promoting the idea that we need to conserve fuel, buy into bio fuels and promotes the misnomer "fossil fuels" whenever possible keeping their customers in the dark about where oil and gas really comes from? (And thus keeping the prices higher in the process....)

BTW, cheaper oil and gas would jump start the economy, and had we done something like this, the economy would be booming right now. Oil companies just reccorded reccord profits at our expense. They claim shortages of oil and gas, and the ability to refine it into gas and other products... Blah blah blah, it's all BS and they just made billions off our ignorance. Lucky us right?