TopSecret said:
Ok, so Germany didn't have anything to do with it, fine. But don't fool yourself in thinking that it was just the US intelligence failures, when the even the UN said he WMD. If you want to be angry or point the finger because of wrong intelligence, don't forget the other countries that also said he had them. I guess the US is just an easy target for this.
So what if its going to be a long time...It will take a long time.... and only time will tell if it is going to be successful or not, but you sure are judging the US harshly for trying to make a positive difference in the world.
GrimJack said:
Or maybe somehow Bush has the receipt of the stuff Sadaam bought. Either ways, bad joke, sorry.
csr ma71 said:
Actually, you were damn close to what I was hinting at. What's the easiest way to know if someone has something? When you or someone you trust was the one that gave it to them.
PS: I apologize if anything I've said came across as 'bashing', that's certainly not the intention. All I was trying to do is prove that America looks at things differently - not neccesarily a bad thing, it's just different.
My second point is that the publicly accepted reason for American involvement in world affairs is likely not even vaguely close to the reason the existing government wants to do the same thing. Again, this is not neccesarily a bad thing, to be honest, every government needs to do things that would not be accepted by the general public, so they all need some way to 'sell' that action to the public. Furthermore, someone has to do the job, and I'm not interested, so on average I have nothing but respect for those that are willing to shoulder the burden.
My second point is that the publicly accepted reason for American involvement in world affairs is likely not even vaguely close to the reason the existing government wants to do the same thing. Again, this is not neccesarily a bad thing, to be honest, every government needs to do things that would not be accepted by the general public, so they all need some way to 'sell' that action to the public. Furthermore, someone has to do the job, and I'm not interested, so on average I have nothing but respect for those that are willing to shoulder the burden.
I love a good debate that does not fall into name calling and demagoguery. I usually feel like I have learned something afterwards and who knows I may even change my mind about the Topic.
I as an American am not always in favor of the policies of our government, the rhetoric does not always make me happy, but I do have a great deal of faith in the basic fundamentals of our Republic. If one where to imagine the mayhem and real destruction this country could inflict if it where truly evil in nature is terrifying to imagine. I know that America does not always do the right thing but I know we strive to do the right thing. And when it really counts we have a good track record of just that (America was in a position to rule the world at the end of WWII, the US war machine at the time could have smashed every remaining power on earth. You Australians made an interesting game about that idea by ADG).
I know that there is serious debate about the wisdom of American policy concerning world terrorism, and some do not care for our go it alone if we must attitude that can be easily construed as to much the Cowboy. I am not to cynical to believe that President bush has sacrificed over 2000 American soldiers lives and over 20000 Iraqi’s for mere profit. I believe that President Bush saw a danger and decided to tackle the problem head on, not caring if it made him popular. Destroying the Al’ Qaeda in Afghanistan and removing Sadam Hussein in Iraq are sign post in an Overall strategy of changing the status quo in the Middle East with the primary belief that once true freedom and Democracy take root, then and only then will peace and prosperity have a chance. I happen to believe That President Bush is essentially correct. Witness what became of Germany and Japan.
I as an American am not always in favor of the policies of our government, the rhetoric does not always make me happy, but I do have a great deal of faith in the basic fundamentals of our Republic. If one where to imagine the mayhem and real destruction this country could inflict if it where truly evil in nature is terrifying to imagine. I know that America does not always do the right thing but I know we strive to do the right thing. And when it really counts we have a good track record of just that (America was in a position to rule the world at the end of WWII, the US war machine at the time could have smashed every remaining power on earth. You Australians made an interesting game about that idea by ADG).
I know that there is serious debate about the wisdom of American policy concerning world terrorism, and some do not care for our go it alone if we must attitude that can be easily construed as to much the Cowboy. I am not to cynical to believe that President bush has sacrificed over 2000 American soldiers lives and over 20000 Iraqi’s for mere profit. I believe that President Bush saw a danger and decided to tackle the problem head on, not caring if it made him popular. Destroying the Al’ Qaeda in Afghanistan and removing Sadam Hussein in Iraq are sign post in an Overall strategy of changing the status quo in the Middle East with the primary belief that once true freedom and Democracy take root, then and only then will peace and prosperity have a chance. I happen to believe That President Bush is essentially correct. Witness what became of Germany and Japan.
One thing that I want people to know is that the War on Terror is not over; just because the focus is on Iraq, "everything President Bush is doing wrong" in regards to it and on the media's attempt to exploit these things in every way possible does not mean that nothing is going on elsewhere besides Iraq. The war on Terror in the "_'Stan Countries" is still going strong - you simply don't hear about it because it isn't news-worthy [in other words, it isn't scandalous or won't get people's attention like the "hard-hitting" news that you hear about Iraq]. Don't take what I post with a grain of salt - I have first hand experience in the matter.
drunk_medic said:
So do you personally think they will put in place the draft if we go after pretty much all the middle east, as we have here in Iraq, with the "go it alone" way.
L
lanky189
Guest
an army formed from a draft is powerless, volunteer armies of much less number have often times overrun much larger numbers or forced participants.
the us will NOT Reinstate the draft, get over it.
btw..this thread went the completely opposite direction i had intended, and i must say some offensive things were said, but since i'm mature and level headed, i'm ok with it.
continue on friends.
the us will NOT Reinstate the draft, get over it.
btw..this thread went the completely opposite direction i had intended, and i must say some offensive things were said, but since i'm mature and level headed, i'm ok with it.
continue on friends.
ToyoHabu said:
What exactly do you mean by this?
I dunno about Japan but Germany was a great place in the late 1920s/ early1930s before Hitler turned into a madman... well, I believe he was a madman all the time... let's say before he turned into a madman officially and all that holocaust shit happened. Everybody had jobs, a place to live, the governemnt itself wasn't bad at the beginning (changed very fast tho)... everything was just really good, then came the madman and the war and Germany became a lousy shithole.
It was divided till 1989/91, the west had democracy (ruled by the US of A), the east was stuck with communism and a socialist government or something (ruled by the soviet union)... we got back together but ~95% of all germans still think in east and west and the east is still struggling to keep up with the west... people are moving into the west cos of job opportunities, better payment, better living conditions etcblabla.
I don't pay that much attention to it so I apologize if I'm talking bullshit here and there... feel free to correct me.
So yeah, we have a democracy now but...
our government is falling apart, we have about 5million unemployed people and no jobs for them. People from Poland get "german jobs"... why? Cos they work more for less. So basically at least 1/4 of all unemployed could get jobs but everybody is so damn lazy and afraid of hard work nowadays... it is awful. People complain and complain but if someone offers them a job (hard work) then all of a sudden they don't need one.
Seems like all we want is money. But we need it cos the government keeps on raising taxes and payments for health insurance and I dunno what else, all that shit. So we need it but can't get it cos there is no work... awesome.
It is funny, no one has a job, so no one gets paid but still our government thinks raising taxes is a good idea... WTF?!?!?
What else...?!?!?!
The US government and Great Britain hates us cos we do not wanna participate in any kind of war act (I tell you in a sec why we don't).... France still hates us cos we invaded them in the second WW *giggles... sorry*
Our army turned from the best (you guys have to admit we were far ahead of everyone else in the 30s) into... do we even have an army?!?! No wonder we don't wanna participate in wars...
Our economy is more dead than alive... the Euro is a great thing for travelling and vacation but it definitely kills the economy.
Also germans are probably the unfriendliest people in Europe... I dunno, people in Finland were all nice and cool, same for people in Hungary, Greece, Spain and wherever I've been on vacation...
Also I believe in some ways that the whole idea of democracy the way it is now is not going to survive... not at all.
Just my opinion about Germany... don't have a very high opinion of the states either. There was a time when I wanted to go there (immigrate) but then I heard so much stuff that reminded me of the shithole Germany... so I'll go for Canada
Can't wait to get out of this shithole forever and ever and ever.... at least one yay for democracy in regards to immigration... lol.
all in all this thread has been the most civil discussion of a touchy topic i've seen in a while. no personal name calling and such
then you know exactly what it's like here when Mexican nationals come across the border illegally and take American jobs for much less. also we have people that are too lazy and afraid of hard work. welfare is a great paycheck here :3d_frown:
isnms said:
ohh yeah, welfare.
I dunno if you guys heard the story about that one german guy that was living in florida off of his welfare cheques.
I don't remember everything but he kinda claimed that the shitty weather in germany made his depressions worse and those depressions (medication against it) were the reason that he couldn't work.
So what's he doing? He gets welfare and fucks off to florida, stayed there for a few years, living off our money, claiming that he HAS TO live there or otherwise his depressions would get worse.
WTF?!?!?
I dunno what happened to him tho...
Hopefully someone in the Government put out a hit on him, and he's now sleeping with the fishes.
Of course, considering what a shitstorm Florida has been in recent months, it might not take a governement hit to kill him off!
Of course, considering what a shitstorm Florida has been in recent months, it might not take a governement hit to kill him off!
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
GrimJack said:
Yeah. i guess you can think of Supraforums as America, and Supramania as Europe :biglaugh:
Are you kidding? They aren't going to draft.. the Air Force is in "Force Reduction" mode right now. So many people enlisted after 9-11 and the main personnel center must have thought they would need everyone - it turns out that the Air Force alone had some 30,000 too many people in, and needed to make it easier for people who wanted to get out to do just that. Unfortunately, this also killed any re-enlistment bonuses except in critically manned career fields [like ParaRescue, Combat Control and many different Flight Crew jobs].D34DC311 said:
I kinda wish that I would have cross-trained into a network communications job before my first re-enlistment - they were enjoying a healthy 6-multiplier on their re-enlistment bonus [you military guys know that this is a major deal, especially if you re-enlist in a no-tax zone]. Now they don't have a bonus. That shouldn't be the deciding factor for re-enlisting, but that much money would be awfully persuasive.