thevork said:Maybe I don't get the joke? :icon_bigg
If it isn't a joke:
In europe the N/A's came stock with an LSD 3.91 diff. (type G315)
hmmm well if thats true then the jokes on me :biglaugh:
but i never heard of that..... any more info?
Holy Crap .... 4.30's are lots of fun!
- Thread starter gixxer750
- Start date
hmmm well if thats true then the jokes on me :biglaugh:
but i never heard of that..... any more info?
Idealsupra said:
The 4.30 diff was not available in europe. only usa (and maybe Japan?idk? )
A european N/A supra came stock with the G315 (3.91) diff with LSD.
In addition, the so called 'sports package', which included the LSD, TEMS and progressive steering control was not available here for the N/A.
The only real reference I can give you (everything is in dutch), is that I got the info from www.supras.nl, Arnout's board (i'm a member of the supra owners group holland, owned by him)
I got the info from him.
cool thanks for the info...... so it basically got the 87-88 turbo diff in the NAs over there.... interesting
I am running a 4.30 diff and 275/40/17 falken RT-615's and it is a great combination. I had drag radials before (Nitto 555r) and they did hook up a little better on the street in 1st gear but overall the RT-615 performs better in all other situations. No problems with 20psi in 2nd or higher and it will just spin them a little at the top of 1st but not bad.
thanks, any1 else care to share what tire brand/model/size they had good luck with? If it makes any differance, I'm running Speedy Hi-Speed 17x7 wheelsbigaaron said:
LoveMy7MGTE said:
Using mkiv wheels on the stock twins I was using Fuzions 275/45/17 and they were great tires. They were outstanding in the rain. I would purchase them again if I was still on the same set up.
Week ago I was using some decent tires 255/40/17 and they didn't hook worth a shit. I forget the brand but they were known for being good but I would rip them all the way into 3rd gear just going easy on the throttle. After almost loosing it last saturday night grabbing 2nd gear I got the tires below.
Now I'm using MT DR Street Radials 275/40/17 and they will almost dead hook from a 5k cluch dump without heating them up and running 35psi. -These have been my best investment by far. What good is a car without traction?
you guys need to be more clear on your vocabulary, im not sure we are not minsunderstanding each other because your using terms semi-incorrectly as pertaining to this discussion.
Total traction is dependent on several things, one of which is tire grip. Tire grip is NOT affected by width (can be but again, only in an extreme circumstance) but total traction can be. Because traction is based on several things, suspension, wheels, tires, power, gearing, stance, etc. So you can feel like you have more traction because you have wider tires because you have added stability. but the Tire itself is not anymore "grippy". Your almost adding an aid to the suspension when adding width because the drivetrain shock of power coming on/shifting has less tendency to "knock the car sideways" making the car more stable, and therefore has a better ability so hook. but again, your money is better spent on compound if your having a big problem. a corolla with 400rwhp and small skinny tires, even soft compound wont have so much a problem burning out, but it will break sideways. people often confuse these problems. A lot of guys i build muscle car motors for, have WIDE tires, and when the power hits, they dont go side to side, they just do rolling burnouts. Alot of the issue i see isnt straightline loss of traction, its side to side. some of you could use less tire pressure in the same crap tire and get your traction because your not experiencing drivetrain shock from power, some of you have more power and need a better compound tire. its a case by case basis. but again, in general, the money needs to go to compound in my opinion for an over-all better effect for straight-line traction, not width.
Total traction is dependent on several things, one of which is tire grip. Tire grip is NOT affected by width (can be but again, only in an extreme circumstance) but total traction can be. Because traction is based on several things, suspension, wheels, tires, power, gearing, stance, etc. So you can feel like you have more traction because you have wider tires because you have added stability. but the Tire itself is not anymore "grippy". Your almost adding an aid to the suspension when adding width because the drivetrain shock of power coming on/shifting has less tendency to "knock the car sideways" making the car more stable, and therefore has a better ability so hook. but again, your money is better spent on compound if your having a big problem. a corolla with 400rwhp and small skinny tires, even soft compound wont have so much a problem burning out, but it will break sideways. people often confuse these problems. A lot of guys i build muscle car motors for, have WIDE tires, and when the power hits, they dont go side to side, they just do rolling burnouts. Alot of the issue i see isnt straightline loss of traction, its side to side. some of you could use less tire pressure in the same crap tire and get your traction because your not experiencing drivetrain shock from power, some of you have more power and need a better compound tire. its a case by case basis. but again, in general, the money needs to go to compound in my opinion for an over-all better effect for straight-line traction, not width.
Reguardless, a wider tire will have more traction then a more narrow tire of the same model, right?
I agree with the rest of what you said but there are a few other important things. The sidewall of the tire affects the traction too. The RT-615 has a thick reinforced sidewall. They had trouble even getting the tire machine to mount them. When you get it sideways it still feels stable. When I take a hard 90* turn or get on a banked onramp at high speed it feels stable and controlable. The drag radials made the car feel unstable during hard cornering. You could not tell when the drag radials were going to break traction, but the Falken is totally predictable. There are a lot of sticky tires with thin sidewalls but I would not buy them.
I agree with the rest of what you said but there are a few other important things. The sidewall of the tire affects the traction too. The RT-615 has a thick reinforced sidewall. They had trouble even getting the tire machine to mount them. When you get it sideways it still feels stable. When I take a hard 90* turn or get on a banked onramp at high speed it feels stable and controlable. The drag radials made the car feel unstable during hard cornering. You could not tell when the drag radials were going to break traction, but the Falken is totally predictable. There are a lot of sticky tires with thin sidewalls but I would not buy them.
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
It's time to slay the tire traction demon!
Oh, and, Tubbie... next time don't insult my intellience and give me the benefit of the doubt before you type your little jerkoff smiley guy referencing that I don't know wtf I'm talking about. I won't be so quick to insult you next time.
Ok, listen up. As others have said, yes, sidewall height is what is really important, so keep that in mind.
Longitudinal (straight line) acceleration benefits from increasing the *length*, not the width of the contact patch -- which happens with wider wheels. Lateral (cornering) acceleration benefits from increasing the width of the contact patch.
If you do the measurements, going from a 225 to a 275 does not increase the length of the contact patch. If you THINK you're getting more traction, ask yourself this: When you switched to wider tires, did you not switch tire brands/type/cost?
The advantage to wider tires is that you have a wider contact patch side-to-side. That means you have more LATERAL grip; however, you have a smaller LONGITUDINAL contact patch front-to-back, and this results in less forward/braking traction.
Look here: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=102250
Another: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techd=10
Wider wheels do help a little bit for longitudinal traction, but for the amount of money you spend, the results are not as good as they can be.
HTH all of you.
Oh, and, Tubbie... next time don't insult my intellience and give me the benefit of the doubt before you type your little jerkoff smiley guy referencing that I don't know wtf I'm talking about. I won't be so quick to insult you next time.
Ok, listen up. As others have said, yes, sidewall height is what is really important, so keep that in mind.
Longitudinal (straight line) acceleration benefits from increasing the *length*, not the width of the contact patch -- which happens with wider wheels. Lateral (cornering) acceleration benefits from increasing the width of the contact patch.
If you do the measurements, going from a 225 to a 275 does not increase the length of the contact patch. If you THINK you're getting more traction, ask yourself this: When you switched to wider tires, did you not switch tire brands/type/cost?
The advantage to wider tires is that you have a wider contact patch side-to-side. That means you have more LATERAL grip; however, you have a smaller LONGITUDINAL contact patch front-to-back, and this results in less forward/braking traction.
Look here: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=102250
Another: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techd=10
Wider wheels do help a little bit for longitudinal traction, but for the amount of money you spend, the results are not as good as they can be.
HTH all of you.
Just get wider and taller tires and call it a day..
woops, 3/4 of this board only has 300hp or a BHG....they wont need that.:icon_razz
-Jonathan
woops, 3/4 of this board only has 300hp or a BHG....they wont need that.:icon_razz
-Jonathan
I think a lot of the misunderstanding in this thread is coming from the PSI issue with wider tires, NO not the air PSI inside them but the PSI between the tire and the road surface. (Think tracked vehicle like a tank that can move on sand it comes down to PSI on the surface)
A narrower tire has more pressure on the road per square inch than a wide tire so in certain low grip situations will give better traction then a wide one.
Wider tires are usually a softer rubber compound as they have to meet certain wear characteristics but when you spread that wear across the wider tire it will be close to the same rate of wear as a narrower harder tire.
It's just not as simple as saying X width tire will out grip Y width it's not an apples to apples comparison.
A narrower tire has more pressure on the road per square inch than a wide tire so in certain low grip situations will give better traction then a wide one.
Wider tires are usually a softer rubber compound as they have to meet certain wear characteristics but when you spread that wear across the wider tire it will be close to the same rate of wear as a narrower harder tire.
It's just not as simple as saying X width tire will out grip Y width it's not an apples to apples comparison.
^^
Thank you, I meant to type a similar response but couldn't word it quite right. (Force per unit area.)
Thank you, I meant to type a similar response but couldn't word it quite right. (Force per unit area.)
Soft sidewalled wider tires will have a greater longitudinal grip when spun than skinnier tires. Exact same concept as in drag. Fat and wide at rest, tall skinny when spinning.
That is why wider tires grip better than skinnier tires. Provided they are both of a soft sidewall. Hard sidewalls and hard compounds and the thinner tire with more longitudanal contact patch will grip more.
4.30s are great. If you can't get traction with them, get better tires.
That is why wider tires grip better than skinnier tires. Provided they are both of a soft sidewall. Hard sidewalls and hard compounds and the thinner tire with more longitudanal contact patch will grip more.
4.30s are great. If you can't get traction with them, get better tires.
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
yes, exactly. i think most of the people that disagree don't realize that i'm talking about street tires.
Again, the question has still not been answered.
You can point to all the mathematical sciences there is out there, same tire, same compound, different width, the wider tire WILL have more grip, period.
And YES i am talking about street tires, only used top fuel as an example, which if the smaller tire more grip theory is correct, it will apply to drag tires too.
When I switched to wider tires, 205 to 215, same brand, same tire, I cannot do a burnout on my lexus anymore. When my brother went from a 245 to 255 same tire, same brand on his M3, he cannot spin the wheels anymore rolling at 3500rpm and gunning it in 1st. So again, why is this happening then?
Also for cost, the results are much cheaper and more effective going wider, then going better compound.
Kumho Ecsta MX 255/40-17 cost $133 each. (treadwear 220)
I can buy a wider tire, Kumho MX 275/40-17 for $148 (treadwear 220)
or
I can buy the stickiest compound tire - Michelin Pilot Cups 225/45/17 for $208 each (treadwear 80)
The Kumhos will last 3 times as long (according to the ratings) and going wider will give me more traction or I can buy the Michelins at 3 times the cost for much more grip with a narrower tire and last 1/3 as long. So from a price standpoint, I can gain more grip going wider for $15, or I can gain way way more grip and have it last 1/3 as long for 3 times the price. Which result is the better one, AND we are talking about street tires here......:icon_bigg
You can point to all the mathematical sciences there is out there, same tire, same compound, different width, the wider tire WILL have more grip, period.
And YES i am talking about street tires, only used top fuel as an example, which if the smaller tire more grip theory is correct, it will apply to drag tires too.
When I switched to wider tires, 205 to 215, same brand, same tire, I cannot do a burnout on my lexus anymore. When my brother went from a 245 to 255 same tire, same brand on his M3, he cannot spin the wheels anymore rolling at 3500rpm and gunning it in 1st. So again, why is this happening then?
Also for cost, the results are much cheaper and more effective going wider, then going better compound.
Kumho Ecsta MX 255/40-17 cost $133 each. (treadwear 220)
I can buy a wider tire, Kumho MX 275/40-17 for $148 (treadwear 220)
or
I can buy the stickiest compound tire - Michelin Pilot Cups 225/45/17 for $208 each (treadwear 80)
The Kumhos will last 3 times as long (according to the ratings) and going wider will give me more traction or I can buy the Michelins at 3 times the cost for much more grip with a narrower tire and last 1/3 as long. So from a price standpoint, I can gain more grip going wider for $15, or I can gain way way more grip and have it last 1/3 as long for 3 times the price. Which result is the better one, AND we are talking about street tires here......:icon_bigg
I run 4.30 rear diff but i may go 4.10 cause of auto x
but as for tration i remmber my ass kicking out goin in to 4th going down the high way just gave her in 4th no slam shifting
this was cold night not wet not frst but just cold
as for the big old mess of tire crap going i can make it very simple
drag tires
they flexy side wall wich cause the car to put alot of force on the wheels and leting the tire give in the side walls and less chance of bugging your lonch
use low psi in tire's witch make them expaned and cause for the drag car to get much high top speed
now as for a car tire
compon/ good side wall /weight
reson why most fo teh time you can spin a narro tire is cause it alot lighter and there is a small foot print
in snow a narro tire is much better to have since now the tire will cut the snow better less snow under tire's is a good thing and more weight of the car is transferd to smaller point
any ways this tire stuff is dumb who ever is goin on and on about this just drop it bakc to 4.30 rear difs
but as for tration i remmber my ass kicking out goin in to 4th going down the high way just gave her in 4th no slam shifting
this was cold night not wet not frst but just cold
as for the big old mess of tire crap going i can make it very simple
drag tires
they flexy side wall wich cause the car to put alot of force on the wheels and leting the tire give in the side walls and less chance of bugging your lonch
use low psi in tire's witch make them expaned and cause for the drag car to get much high top speed
now as for a car tire
compon/ good side wall /weight
reson why most fo teh time you can spin a narro tire is cause it alot lighter and there is a small foot print
in snow a narro tire is much better to have since now the tire will cut the snow better less snow under tire's is a good thing and more weight of the car is transferd to smaller point
any ways this tire stuff is dumb who ever is goin on and on about this just drop it bakc to 4.30 rear difs