Holy Crap .... 4.30's are lots of fun!

grsupra87

grsupra87

Let's go Pens!!
Jul 3, 2005
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Conneautville, Pennsylvania, United States
I have 4.30, but not lsd. I wish they were lsd because even tho I'm N/A the tires break loose SOOO easy in first, but worse, it is common for the right rear to break loose a second or two after 2nd hooks up. It connects then breaks loose. Not too uncommon for third to do it too. But wht does it start out rolling and THEN break loose? Weird.......
 
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Ronin2jz

New Member
Nov 21, 2005
9
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atlanta, ga
tubbie said:
:wuteva: ............................
So top fuel dragsters can run faster quater miles by switching to narrower tires?

IF you have a 7 inch wide tire and 12 inch wide tire, both of same rolling diameter, you will have the same front to back contact patch of say 1 inch. So, the 7 inch wide tire will have a 7 square inch contact patch and the 12 inch wide will have a 12 square inch contact patch. That is why the wider tire gives you more grip for straight line and cornering....
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sorry, your wrong, they are right, straight traction is not determined by total tire contact patch, its determining factors are tread pattern, tread compound, and sidewall hieght and strength. watch your top fuel cars, when they are moving, those tires are skinny as hell. they just look huge stopped because of the sidewall, its made to wrinkle. at launch the top fuel slicks are VERY thin. and most of the width is a product of the type of rim they have to use to hold the tire when not running, and for the strength to have enough space on the inside to build a good lock. go take your argument all over the internet, anyone who knows what they are talking about will tell you your wrong.
 
tubbie

tubbie

Yes, powerful Jedi....
Apr 4, 2005
821
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Hoschton, GA
Ronin2jz said:
sorry, your wrong, they are right, straight traction is not determined by total tire contact patch, its determining factors are tread pattern, tread compound, and sidewall hieght and strength. watch your top fuel cars, when they are moving, those tires are skinny as hell. they just look huge stopped because of the sidewall, its made to wrinkle. at launch the top fuel slicks are VERY thin. and most of the width is a product of the type of rim they have to use to hold the tire when not running, and for the strength to have enough space on the inside to build a good lock. go take your argument all over the internet, anyone who knows what they are talking about will tell you your wrong.
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Comparing drag tires to street tires is apples to oranges, so that's not what I was referring to.
But with two exact same tires but one is wider then the other, your telling me that the wider tire will not give more traction?

So AGAIN, if you stick a narrower tire on a top fuel dragster, will it be faster?
 
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Ronin2jz

New Member
Nov 21, 2005
9
0
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atlanta, ga
tubbie said:
Comparing drag tires to street tires is apples to oranges, so that's not what I was referring to.
But with two exact same tires but one is wider then the other, your telling me that the wider tire will not give more traction?

So AGAIN, if you stick a narrower tire on a top fuel dragster, will it be faster?
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not faster, but it wont be anymore grip by going wider. And I understand street/ slick tires arent the same, i never compared the two, the principles are the same however. ill give you a basic comparo about what makes a real difference.

Street set up.

255/45/17 - michelin pilot vs 275/45/17 michelin pilot
your going to have NO more better traction.

275/45/17 michelin pilot vs 245/45/17 nitto 555r
thinner tire, a TON more traction.. why? compound.. sidewall, and tread.

you ever road raced? those little 205/40/15 hoosier slicks stick a 400hp turbo miata, a turbo s30z to the track 10 times better than any 335/45/18 keep a viper hooked up. its all about compound, tread, and sidewall.

I see what your saying, a lot of people believe what you do, and its just a common misunderstanding. I think it comes from the fact that when people usually upgrade thier tires.. they go wider and with a better tire at the same time. tire width has nothing to do with it. if you get any traction gains out of width, it would be an extreme case, and it would be a nominal gain, money is better spent on a smaller tire with better tread and sidewall specs.

Its hard to explain without being insanely technical, but if you'd like, i'd be happy to hook you up with the e-mail of a 5 time national road racing champion and race car engineer, a guy who builds 15-30k suspension systems for factory backed road racing teams. I bet he could explain it, although im not sure you would understand him, hell i barely do.
 
CTsupra

CTsupra

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
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tubbie said:
Comparing drag tires to street tires is apples to oranges, so that's not what I was referring to.
But with two exact same tires but one is wider then the other, your telling me that the wider tire will not give more traction?

So AGAIN, if you stick a narrower tire on a top fuel dragster, will it be faster?
Click to expand...

You just said comparing drag tires to street tires is apples to oranges, so since every other intelligent person in this thread is talking about street cars, why are you talking about top-fuel dragsters?

Anyway, yes, you are wrong. We're not talking about top-fuel dragsters here, were talking about street cars. I'm also refering to tires in the 285-335+ range. Given the same size wheel, any tire under 300mm will have a greater front to back contact patch than a 300+mm tire. Front to back contact is what gives you traction, not side to side. Width will give you greater cornering ability, and as such will have a lesser front to back contact patch.

I'll write a more descriptive explanation later. In the mean time, why don't you try asking any racer, any real racer, and find out the logical answer ;)
 
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Ronin2jz

New Member
Nov 21, 2005
9
0
0
atlanta, ga
let me add, you will find a basic math rule

multiply your hp by .788 to get an idea of how many mm or tire you need.
or basically you need .788mm per 1hp. so

Tire width= hp x .788

*however, it should be noted, like all things. this is just a basic formula, and for real world experience it can find itself unwholly impracticle, for instance, at 500hp you would need some 394mm of tire.. i dont think so. like i said, real world.. the difference is in tread/compound/ sidewall, and no matter how much you dissagree, money is ALWAYS going to be better spent on compound, not on width.
 
tubbie

tubbie

Yes, powerful Jedi....
Apr 4, 2005
821
0
16
Hoschton, GA
Ronin2jz said:
not faster, but it wont be anymore grip by going wider. And I understand street/ slick tires arent the same, i never compared the two, the principles are the same however. ill give you a basic comparo about what makes a real difference.

Street set up.

255/45/17 - michelin pilot vs 275/45/17 michelin pilot
your going to have NO more better traction.

275/45/17 michelin pilot vs 245/45/17 nitto 555r
thinner tire, a TON more traction.. why? compound.. sidewall, and tread.

you ever road raced? those little 205/40/15 hoosier slicks stick a 400hp turbo miata, a turbo s30z to the track 10 times better than any 335/45/18 keep a viper hooked up. its all about compound, tread, and sidewall.
Click to expand...

I understand thhat changing compounds makes a big difference. If you buy better rubber, yes a smaller tire will give more grip, but if you have two SAME tires, the wider one will not make a difference?

CtSupra said:
You just said comparing drag tires to street tires is apples to oranges, so since every other intelligent person in this thread is talking about street cars, why are you talking about top-fuel dragsters?
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Because I used top fuel dragsters as an example means I am not intelligent like everyone else on here? I guess your more intelligent then me...

You stated:
CtSupra said:
i hope you guys know that the wider the tire the less traction you will have. E.g. it's easier to spin a 315 than a 295. Wider tires give you more cornering grip, but decreases the front to back contact patch which gives you the straight line grip.

go dr's, not wider tires.
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So if your statement is correct, a top fuel dragster should get more grip with a narrower tire (my example). My supra will get more grip changing from 225 to 195. A Viper will get more grip going to a 295. So if a contact patch on a tire decreases the wider you go, why is all these super cars installed with huge wide tires? If that is the case, why in every form of racing is there a limit on how wide a tire can be? Also, why did all the Honda dragster started breaking their axles once they started using WIDER slicks? So please please explain to a non inteligent person like me why a wider tire does not have a bigger contact patch.

Remember, you statement did not say anything about different compound tires as Ronin2JZ stated, which is true.
 
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LoveMy7MGTE

New Member
Nov 24, 2005
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Grosse Pointe, Michigan
i've got a 4.30 lsd in my supra as well, and need new tires. i don't give a ahit about the theory behind it, and couldnt care less about top fuel. how about back to the topic at hand as to SPECIFIC recomendations for tires as in brand, model, and size. What are you guys running and how's it working for you? And what did you pay for them?
 
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IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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I come from a land down under
johnathan1 said:
do the NA diffs lower top speed, like make it revv higher when on the freeway?
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Yes.

Changing from 4.30 to 4.10 gives me another 10 mph on the top end at the same RPM.

And 3.73's would be + 34 mph at the same RPM.

53 mph @ 2000 rpm here
 
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IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
38,728
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I come from a land down under
If you turn corners the Torsen is much better but can't take Drag type shock loadings.

The Stub axles are a different length between Torsen and LSD apart from that they're interchangeable.
 
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gixxer750

2jzget comingsoon!
Mar 30, 2005
2,333
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Mississippi
really.... Why will my corolla spin the shit out of 185 wide tires and won't hardly turn over a set of 225's we put on it of the same exact brand name and tire name?
 
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