can you post a diagram of the proper way to do it? this thread is a bit confusing, and i will be relocating my battery in the next few days (NHRA-approved batt box, switch, etc)
Finished my battery relocation with cutoff switch and fuel pump rewire (PICS)
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Well I'm guessing there's just too many ways to get it right & 10x that many ways to get it wrong.
... here's a diagram for you.
*deleted now that there's some real diagrams*
I'll let y'all work out fuse/breaker ratings and wire gauges amongst yourselves!
:biglaugh: :naughty: ... yes - I'm trying to be sarcastic again ... I know it doesn't translate well into 'messageboard'.
... here's a diagram for you.
*deleted now that there's some real diagrams*
I'll let y'all work out fuse/breaker ratings and wire gauges amongst yourselves!
:biglaugh: :naughty: ... yes - I'm trying to be sarcastic again ... I know it doesn't translate well into 'messageboard'.
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I don't know anything about wiring, so it sure looked good to me. Jetjock would you be kind enough to make a diagram of the way you'd design it? (you could make a sticky...) I'd like to relocate my battery as well. But after this discussion, I'd sure like a schematic from a pro.
jetjock said:
I simply answered the questions he asked me and he never asked where to put the breakers. He also didn't ask me how to turn a screw driver, so I assumed he had both those issues covered. I dont care what your qualifications are, this has nothing to do with who you are, so don't make it about you. The alternator and the battery are on one side of the switch, the rest of the car is on the other in our "abortion." This isn't that difficult to understand. The car shuts when you flip the switch which is what NHRA requires and it will be breakered properly shortly so in the event of a crash, the car will be safe. Real NHRA techs have been inside and out of my truck and actually took the time to understand what was done. The car is done right and NHRA agrees with me as well as sound performance. If you can drop qualifications I guess i can drop names. I guess everyone else who runs a single pole switch wired their car wrong too, being this is the commonly NHRA accepted method to wire a single pole switch.
By your posts earlier saying
"it looks like that cut off switch only cuts off the starter. Isn't it supposed to kill all power?"
"I still don't see how the switch cuts off everything"
"how is power to everything lost upon disconnect?"
"I see an unswitched feed from the battery to engine compartment so how is power to everything lost upon disconnect?"
you displayed how you obviously were clueless as to how this was wired but felt it necesarry to tell him what he did wrong still. I agree with you about what can happen if he crashes, which is why he is fixing up the breakers. I still dont think you have an understanding of what was done here. This will be my final attempt at showing you how the alternator and battery are disconnected from the rest of the car. I have tried to make this as simple as possible for you. If you can't understand this, I give up.
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That power wire running from the battery to the alternator. See how it isnt connected to the switch? Thats the part we are all telling you is wrong. I am gld that when the switch is hit that it kills the car. Hooray actually. Doesnt make it right however. That single wire still has a very greart potential for a fire hazard in the event of a crash or vibration induced short.
That is the point of having breakers right at the alternator and at both bat wires. How else can you wire a single pole switch?
The point of a battery disconnect switch is to disconnect all power from the battery. Not all power except the alternator supply.
The point of the switch is to disconnect all power from the rest of the car. So I ask again, how else can you wire a single pole switch to stop all electrical functions.
NHRA Rules
"This cutoff must be connected to the positive side of the electrical system and must stop all electrical functions, including the magneto ignition."
NHRA Rules
"This cutoff must be connected to the positive side of the electrical system and must stop all electrical functions, including the magneto ignition."
^ That's a good start.
I give up. It's not my car or life. Not that NHRA rules should take priority when doing anything but the amusing part of this whole thing is the project could've been done with only one wire and been in compliance with the rule. That he needlessly has two wires and it's still not right is what blows me away.
I give up. It's not my car or life. Not that NHRA rules should take priority when doing anything but the amusing part of this whole thing is the project could've been done with only one wire and been in compliance with the rule. That he needlessly has two wires and it's still not right is what blows me away.
http://www.dapa.org/jhpages/jhandracing19.htm
I hope you guys really understand that NHRA specs is for outside of the car. Because if you are passed out and the rear end is crunched to the point of the hatch not opening...................
p.s. he has pretty pictures for all to look at.
btw we have this in our car.
more
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/weight/battery_relocate.htm
jahndracing said:
I hope you guys really understand that NHRA specs is for outside of the car. Because if you are passed out and the rear end is crunched to the point of the hatch not opening...................
p.s. he has pretty pictures for all to look at.
btw we have this in our car.
more
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/weight/battery_relocate.htm
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That wouldn't comply with the rule, you are only killing the efi system. I interpret all electrical functions as not just the EFI system, but the entire car. If a tech sees the tiny gauge wire on the large switch lugs he would most likely give you a problem. Besides, assuming you put your battery in the trunk, you would still need at least two wires running from the hatch, one for the battery hot and at least one to run up to B+, assuming you could pick up switched power in the hatch somewhere and use it to trigger a relay to run power up to B+. Doesn't comply, just as many wires, a lot less safe and you had to add a relay.
The double pole switch works great, that is an option if you dont want to use a single. At the time I did my grey car the double pole switch wasn't as available and I already saw how people were using the single poles. Summit now sells the double pole. A few years ago it was only a company in MA that had an NHRA approved one.
The double pole switch works great, that is an option if you dont want to use a single. At the time I did my grey car the double pole switch wasn't as available and I already saw how people were using the single poles. Summit now sells the double pole. A few years ago it was only a company in MA that had an NHRA approved one.
Lets all think beyond NHRA for a moment. We are all focusing too hard on this rule and missing the real point of the matter. When relocating a battery to the rea of the car, the first issue to deal with is venting of the gas. Even using a gel battery, you still have a smaller amount of gas to vent. If using a lead/acid battery you need to deal with leakage as well. A marine battery box that is properly installed will fit both requirements.
The next point of concern is the actual power wiring. First point of concern is you will be running a high amount of current through this wire. Figure a constant 80A with spikes upwards of 150A. With this much amperage and the length of wire I would suggest 2ga wire. 1ga would be even better, 1/0 ga is my personal preference. Then think about the routing of this wire. Personally I wouldnt want to share the driving compartment with this wire. As long as the wire is protected from chaffing any metal with rubber grommets and wire loom it can be routed wherever you desire. You will also want to anchor this wire to the body of the car so it isnt moving around unnessarily. The rule for this is the more secure the better.
Once the wire is routed you want to think about safety. If anything should go wrong with this wire there needs to be a way to kill power going through it fast. A circuit breaker or fuse with proper amp rating within 12 inches of the battery needs to be installed.
Once these concerns are taken care of you can then work on the safety rules of NHRA.
The next point of concern is the actual power wiring. First point of concern is you will be running a high amount of current through this wire. Figure a constant 80A with spikes upwards of 150A. With this much amperage and the length of wire I would suggest 2ga wire. 1ga would be even better, 1/0 ga is my personal preference. Then think about the routing of this wire. Personally I wouldnt want to share the driving compartment with this wire. As long as the wire is protected from chaffing any metal with rubber grommets and wire loom it can be routed wherever you desire. You will also want to anchor this wire to the body of the car so it isnt moving around unnessarily. The rule for this is the more secure the better.
Once the wire is routed you want to think about safety. If anything should go wrong with this wire there needs to be a way to kill power going through it fast. A circuit breaker or fuse with proper amp rating within 12 inches of the battery needs to be installed.
Once these concerns are taken care of you can then work on the safety rules of NHRA.
figgie said:http://www.dapa.org/jhpages/jhandracing19.htm
btw we have this in our car.
more
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/weight/battery_relocate.htm
so im checking the TEWD and i dont see "F" terminal on our alternator. could it be the "IG" (B-Y) wire? so interupting that wire will stop alternator output?
Ummm...That is a typical GM wiring diagram and charging system.
*edit*
I cant access the TEWD from here at work. The 'F' terminal is refering to the feild wire. I beleive on our cars this is controled through the PCM.
*edit*
I cant access the TEWD from here at work. The 'F' terminal is refering to the feild wire. I beleive on our cars this is controled through the PCM.
screaminglemon said:
The IG pin is what supplies the Alternator's regulator voltage that without it, the alternator would not work. So in other word, yes.
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