Cooling Problem? or bad HG?
- Thread starter Burntz
- Start date
supramacist said:
ok, for one...i wouldnt leave my car running without the rad. cap for 15 minutes because the water would heat up, expand, and dump everywhere. and yes the concern about overheating is possibly a valid one...just watch the temp gauge and your filler and shut it off if it starts pouring coolant or the temp climbs from the cold region, definitely before it reaches operating temp to be safe.
supramacist- have you done this 15-minute process yourself? it sounds exaggerated a bit. it WILL take hours, but that includes time with the engine off, cooling. NOT running! (just a bad idea i think) you cant run a car for even 20 minutes without the radiator cap because it will spill everywhere when the pressure rises.
you have to get the bubbles in the system to flow to the top and out the cap, or into the overflow bottle. that part is obvious. i believe that even with the cap ON you can achieve this because the air will "overflow" into the overflow bottle, as long as its up by the cap by the overflow hose when the pressure increases. after letting it cool, you pop the cap, add more water/coolant, and do it again. you'll be adding water a 1/2 cup at a time. soon there will be enough water in the system to completely push the air out because now you'll have water going into the overflow bottle instead of air
(air rises, so until the system's water level is high enough that it pushes water into the overflow hose instead of the just the pocket of air, there will be a bubble trapped in the overflow hose and near the cap, ) my system fixed itself, i gradually kept adding coolant until it stopped needing it. every day after the car sat for hours and got cold (lets the coolant contract) its just picky i guess. but having the front end up high will help.
supramacist explained the idea correctly, and with cold fluids it at the most will drizzle a bit of coolant out but not much. just be careful with revving it. i cant remember how it will react. again. search. there are specifics on this and mis-information is exactly why i refrained from explaining it myself, along with not wanting to type a page of info that would take you five minutes to find. http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590&highlight=burp
that might help. i dont know.
and if you have no fan shroud please watch yourself, any liquid that hits it will go everywhere, including your face, the engine bay (perpendicular to the fan) and the fenders. bring a towel and some water to rinse the paint when you're done so the coolant doesnt turn it to crap.
Hmmm.... Running any vehicle for more than just a few minutes with the rad. cap off is a BAD idea. Overheating the vehicle is not a possibility, its what WILL happen. The coolant mix, as with anything else, expands with heat(physics 101). The temp. gauge won't even tell you its happening, as the air running through the system will give the temp. sensor a false reading.
When you first fill the system, you do need to run the car with the heater full on for a few minutes. Our cars are equipped with a valve that closes off the heater core when the heat is off(personally, I removed it and hooked up the heater hoses directly). It opens with the heat on, and lets the coolant cycle through the whole system. After its run with the heat on for a few min.'s(5 sounds good)turn the car off, and top off the rad. Take the cap off SLOWLY. Push down, and turn it to the first notch, and let it up easy. If coolant rushes out, relock the cap, and wait a little while for the car to cool off. After you've done that, run the car for 15 to 20 mins. (rad. cap ON), so it gets hot enough to open the thermostat. Shut it off, and give it about an hour to cool off. Check your coolant level(see above on how to remove the cap), and add if necessary. After that, do what Figit090 has recommended: check and add coolant every day until the system is full.
When you first fill the system, you do need to run the car with the heater full on for a few minutes. Our cars are equipped with a valve that closes off the heater core when the heat is off(personally, I removed it and hooked up the heater hoses directly). It opens with the heat on, and lets the coolant cycle through the whole system. After its run with the heat on for a few min.'s(5 sounds good)turn the car off, and top off the rad. Take the cap off SLOWLY. Push down, and turn it to the first notch, and let it up easy. If coolant rushes out, relock the cap, and wait a little while for the car to cool off. After you've done that, run the car for 15 to 20 mins. (rad. cap ON), so it gets hot enough to open the thermostat. Shut it off, and give it about an hour to cool off. Check your coolant level(see above on how to remove the cap), and add if necessary. After that, do what Figit090 has recommended: check and add coolant every day until the system is full.
OMG OMG!!! THANK YOU!!!
case closed. *sigh*
+1 for you
and i didnt think of the accuracy of the temp reading. totally true.
case closed. *sigh*
+1 for you
and i didnt think of the accuracy of the temp reading. totally true.
Figit090: no problem 
You gave good information. I backed you up because I'd hate to see someone sieze a motor from a lack of understanding on how the cooling system actually works.
Burnz: I've gone back and reread this whole post, and have one question: Have you done a block test yet? Seriously, its real easy to blow a head gasket, and you've overheated your car enough that its a very good possibility. The kit is cheap, you can get it at almost any parts store, and the test is pretty simple. As a matter of fact, most mechanics have one(I know I do), as its an easy, fast, and accurate test. Just call around and find one to do it for you. Burping the cooling system isn't gonna help if your blowing the coolant outta the exhaust, and pushing exhaust into the cooling system. I've seen plenty of cars with clean oil, and a blown h.g. It just means the h.g. didn't blow close to an oil passage, or that it hasn't gotten bad enough that the compression is forcing coolant past the rings. If you keep driving it, and it does have a BHG, you're gonna start doing some serious damage to the motor.
You gave good information. I backed you up because I'd hate to see someone sieze a motor from a lack of understanding on how the cooling system actually works.Burnz: I've gone back and reread this whole post, and have one question: Have you done a block test yet? Seriously, its real easy to blow a head gasket, and you've overheated your car enough that its a very good possibility. The kit is cheap, you can get it at almost any parts store, and the test is pretty simple. As a matter of fact, most mechanics have one(I know I do), as its an easy, fast, and accurate test. Just call around and find one to do it for you. Burping the cooling system isn't gonna help if your blowing the coolant outta the exhaust, and pushing exhaust into the cooling system. I've seen plenty of cars with clean oil, and a blown h.g. It just means the h.g. didn't blow close to an oil passage, or that it hasn't gotten bad enough that the compression is forcing coolant past the rings. If you keep driving it, and it does have a BHG, you're gonna start doing some serious damage to the motor.
I never had coolant gush out and sometimes if I was in a hurry I would give it 15 minutes of topping off, but generaly I did it for a few hours at a time.
I always did it with the cap off. I'll try it with the cap on because what was posted seems to make sense to me for some reason, lol.
I always did it with the cap off. I'll try it with the cap on because what was posted seems to make sense to me for some reason, lol.
cuel said:Figit090: no problem
Burnz: I've gone back and reread this whole post, and have one question: Have you done a block test yet? Seriously, its real easy to blow a head gasket, and you've overheated your car enough that its a very good possibility. The kit is cheap, you can get it at almost any parts store, and the test is pretty simple. As a matter of fact, most mechanics have one(I know I do), as its an easy, fast, and accurate test. Just call around and find one to do it for you. Burping the cooling system isn't gonna help if your blowing the coolant outta the exhaust, and pushing exhaust into the cooling system. I've seen plenty of cars with clean oil, and a blown h.g. It just means the h.g. didn't blow close to an oil passage, or that it hasn't gotten bad enough that the compression is forcing coolant past the rings. If you keep driving it, and it does have a BHG, you're gonna start doing some serious damage to the motor.
*sigh* I think its got a BHG without doing a block test. I checked my overflow today, and magically its empty again? And then I look under the cap and theirs some white residue, im bummed
Now I cant figure out if I should just replace the bhg with a new oem and sum arp bolts, or just yank the motor and rebuild it :-\
lol hopefully not.
my main goal is to go turbo. i'm thinking maybe i'll just go park it in my friends garage, tear the top apart, and check stuff out. is it easier to check for bad rings with the head off? before we pull the head off i may just do a compression and leak down test, because id rather just do the HG and stuff, then grab my electronics and manifold + ct26.
then if it blows, rebuild the whole motor.
or maybe just put a new HG in it and be happy with it fora while lol
my main goal is to go turbo. i'm thinking maybe i'll just go park it in my friends garage, tear the top apart, and check stuff out. is it easier to check for bad rings with the head off? before we pull the head off i may just do a compression and leak down test, because id rather just do the HG and stuff, then grab my electronics and manifold + ct26.
then if it blows, rebuild the whole motor.
or maybe just put a new HG in it and be happy with it fora while lol
New Info:
Found an intake for it? my friend had a intake pipe for it, that somehow fits perfectly, its weird. and it have 2 spots for vacuum hoses... and we didnt plug them at first just to see what it did.. and it ran perfectly? lol wtf? I was 99% sure it would idle like crap with those 2 huge vacuum leaks past the AFM.. yet it idles perfect? Not to meantion that stupid vacuum hose i left unhooked that went to the accordion tube.. somethin aint right lol (pics later on, never plugged em ... maybe it'll offset the fact that i was running rich lol)
Also, it started overheating right as I got to my street last night, a block later i turned into the parking lot, and my meter went from near red to normal instantly, then i parked, and let it sit and idle.. and it slowly started building back up again. I would rev and it wouldnt drop or nething, and i had the heater on full blast, seeing if that did anything. This car is damn confusing
My friend and I decided its most likely getting re-ringed, a new oem HG, ARP's, the GTE electronics, a turbo, and low boost. Then painted, then rims, then sold lol. Im not 100% about the sold, but we'll see
Found an intake for it? my friend had a intake pipe for it, that somehow fits perfectly, its weird. and it have 2 spots for vacuum hoses... and we didnt plug them at first just to see what it did.. and it ran perfectly? lol wtf? I was 99% sure it would idle like crap with those 2 huge vacuum leaks past the AFM.. yet it idles perfect? Not to meantion that stupid vacuum hose i left unhooked that went to the accordion tube.. somethin aint right lol (pics later on, never plugged em ... maybe it'll offset the fact that i was running rich lol)
Also, it started overheating right as I got to my street last night, a block later i turned into the parking lot, and my meter went from near red to normal instantly, then i parked, and let it sit and idle.. and it slowly started building back up again. I would rev and it wouldnt drop or nething, and i had the heater on full blast, seeing if that did anything. This car is damn confusing
My friend and I decided its most likely getting re-ringed, a new oem HG, ARP's, the GTE electronics, a turbo, and low boost. Then painted, then rims, then sold lol. Im not 100% about the sold, but we'll see
They never listen .
Here's a tip for when you don't want to spring for a combustion test kit: Drain some hot coolant into a glass and shine a light through it. Do it next time you run your car and you'll see what I'm getting at.
. Here's a tip for when you don't want to spring for a combustion test kit: Drain some hot coolant into a glass and shine a light through it. Do it next time you run your car and you'll see what I'm getting at.
jetjock said:They never listen
Here's a tip for when you don't want to spring for a combustion test kit: Drain some hot coolant into a glass and shine a light through it. Do it next time you run your car and you'll see what I'm getting at.
Can you just tell me what ur getting at? I really dont feel like going and draining some coolant to see if you can just tell me in 2 seconds .. lol
But regardless, just for peace of mind, is thier any scenario for your exhaust being wet? I cant say with 100% accuracy that it was water .. but what else could it be? It didnt smell strongly of gas, and it wasnt black at all like oil, my hand was just wet.
I was just saying.. thats pretty much a sure fire sign of burning coolant/water right?
Any scenario? Other than water vapor being *the* major byproduct of combustion? It shouldn't smell like coolant though.
Contrary to popular belief head gasket problems are not that tricky to diagnose. There's a specific set(s) of symptoms and when they all add up it's pretty much a given. As others pointed out you have them. A few are dead giveaways.
As for the coolant drain a little and have a look. It has to come out at some point anyway. I'm not going to hand you everything.
Contrary to popular belief head gasket problems are not that tricky to diagnose. There's a specific set(s) of symptoms and when they all add up it's pretty much a given. As others pointed out you have them. A few are dead giveaways.
As for the coolant drain a little and have a look. It has to come out at some point anyway. I'm not going to hand you everything.
Idk, next time my car is hot, and i decide to drain some coolant, i'll put some in a clear glass and go have a looksie.
Btw, my friend and I cut the cat off of it today, and tried to fashion a flex pipe in.... wrong idea. looks and worked like shit. i pretty much sound like i have open headers right now. on the plus side, it no longer loses power at 4k rpms, but it also has no bottom end right now either because of that lol.
I'll prolly just run it to a friends house w/ a good welder and a piece of reg exh pipe when i get the chance lol
Btw, my friend and I cut the cat off of it today, and tried to fashion a flex pipe in.... wrong idea. looks and worked like shit. i pretty much sound like i have open headers right now. on the plus side, it no longer loses power at 4k rpms, but it also has no bottom end right now either because of that lol.
I'll prolly just run it to a friends house w/ a good welder and a piece of reg exh pipe when i get the chance lol