Completed LSx (or 1 or 6 or 7 or...)?

[flubyux2]

LS1 with a crower stroker kit = Motown for the win. an all-aluminum 427 that doesnt cost an arm and a leg.

the LS7 is nice, but those titanium rods dont hold up well. any bit of spray makes them shatter... i saw a couple videos of some C6Z's letting go on the track due to that.

Fuck an LS2... complete garbage, at least in the GTO's. they are ok if you plan to NEVER down shift/gear brake.

id like to see a poked and stroked LS1 with L92 heads and an MS4. that should be near the 500rwhp mark, on motor. throw a "Small" 175 shot on it (open -4 line) and have fun.

however, id much rather see a 3ur-fe in a mk3 than an LSx motor. Only put Genuine Toyota parts on your Genuine Toyota Car. lol

 

[suprabad]

LS1 with a crower stroker kit = Motown for the win. an all-aluminum 427 that doesnt cost an arm and a leg.

the LS7 is nice, but those titanium rods dont hold up well. any bit of spray makes them shatter... i saw a couple videos of some C6Z's letting go on the track due to that.

Fuck an LS2... complete garbage, at least in the GTO's. they are ok if you plan to NEVER down shift/gear brake.


however, id much rather see a 3ur-fe in a mk3 than an LSx motor. Only put Genuine Toyota parts on your Genuine Toyota Car. lol

LS1, bored and stroked would be good for drag racing and street, which is what I will do with it if I do the swap. That being said, "poking and stroking" the LS1 would not be necessary to realize huge gains over anything toyota has to offer .

LS2 ... "complete garbage"??? Kinda critical coming from a 7m owner.:icon_razz

As to "any bit of spray makes them shatter". Puhleeeeeze, it would take a gigantic squirt of juice and probably way to much advance to "shatter" titanium LS7 rods.

First you have to understand why the LS7 "is what it is":

The LS7 shares the same basic Gen IV V8 architecture as the Corvette’s 6.0-litre LS2, but the LS7 uses a different cylinder block casting with pressed-in steel cylinder liners to accommodate the engine’s wide, 104.8-mm-wide cylinder bores; the LS2 has 101.6-mm bores
Not only is the LS7 1litre larger than the LS2, it also has a 7100rpm redline (the first production ohv engine to break the 7k mark) and is said to be capable of even higher revs.

Some highlights:

Unique cylinder block casting with large, 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
Forged steel main bearing caps
Forged steel crankshaft
Titanium connecting rods with 101.6-mm stroke
Forged aluminium flat-top pistons
11.0:1 compression
Dry-sump oiling system
Camshaft with 0.591-inch lift
Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminium cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
Titanium pushrods and valve springs
Low-restriction air intake system
Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique “quad flow” collector flanges

All the components are critical to achieving the kind of rpm's, raw hp, and power delivery that this engine delivers, all in a compact package.


I like Toyota motors too, but considering swapping a 1, 2, or 3UZFE (or 2JZGTTE for that matter) is not going to be any easier than swapping an LS.

The only reason I can see not to go to all that trouble and not use the LS motor is blind loyalty.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

In the end, it will come down to what you want to do with your car. I'm really just stating my reasons and justification for deciding to follow this path when the time comes.
Tim

Agreed. Its up to the owner how they spend there money just showing pros and cons, i have nothing against the lsx other then its a GM/Chevy. :biglaugh:


The clutch i figured average performance clutch, could be more i wont dispute that. Tuning for the 7m and custom fab labor for the lsx i left out because those can vary greatly. one guy could charge $100/hour and have you done in 3 hours and one could charge $50/hr and spend 10 hours, and i figured same with fab work. or maybe both will be done by the owner himself.

In the end its up to owners preference and how much you want to spend.

Suprabad: not only Loyalty, but Originality and being unique. Its not about more or less power but to be able to say i have this and everyone wants to see it because its the only one around. id look at a toyota v8 swapped supra WAY before i look at one with an ls1 in it, ls1's are in everything now a-days, there old news.

 

[Doward]

I6 vs V8?

Area under the curve.

LSx (all aluminum) is lighter than an iron blocked 4 banger. The iron block LSx motors are heavier than the iron block 4 banger.

LS1 Miata will outhandle a stock Miata - I've seen it done here in Gainesville. As long as you can control your wheelspin, that is

 

[Chrisfrom1986]

LS9 k?

 

[7Mboost]

The only time I mentioned 450hp was in reference to the 4th gen supra. And your example, was using a 2jzge with some super cheap ebay turbo kit. It also didn't include proper engine management, injectors, etc. And it was in reference to a drag setup. In my posts I said I wanted it for road racing and drifting. Area under the curve and throttle reponse is what's important. I could make more peak power with some big turbo, but it would suck for driving.



1000hp out of a turbo motor isn't usable power. Usable power means power that you can actually use, not power you have to wait a couple minutes for. Some people care more about other types of racing or having a sweet street car and for driveability and throttle response are going to be better with the LS than they would with a 7m/jzwhatever.

Lag is overrated, whats wrong with a 5k-10k powerband? With 1000hp or more you will have a motor and head built for more powerband range. If you don't want lag, 2 step it and as long as your going from a roll you can gear down to the powerband, yes throttle response will be better in ass cammed NA on a huge shot of spray but a turbo car is still more streetable than an huge CI NA, with cams that barely let the car idle.

 

[suprabad]

Lag is overrated, whats wrong with a 5k-10k powerband? With 1000hp or more you will have a motor and head built for more powerband range. If you don't want lag, 2 step it and as long as your going from a roll you can gear down to the powerband, yes throttle response will be better in ass cammed NA on a huge shot of spray but a turbo car is still more streetable than an huge CI NA, with cams that barely let the car idle.

Lag sucks.

5k-10k? Are you refering to 5000 to 10,000 rpm's? Are you serious?

I don't know anyone with a 7m or JZ anything that rev's reliably (or any other way) to 10,000rpm.

A big turbo more streetable than a big bore n/a LSX or LS7???

Have you even driven a LS7 Vette? It's so mild mannered around town it's hard to believe that it puts out the kind of power it does untill you mash the pedal. And it idles fine. Like big turbo cars with huge injectors always idle so smoothly.

I don't want to pick a fight, but everything you said in this post is completely wrong. And not just a little wrong but completely wrong, totally without merit.

Maybe you ought to get some experience on the subject of LS motors before you render an opinion like this and embarass yourself.

It's you're right to post and disagree with me, but nobody qualified is going to agree with your statements.

Sorry dude, but you're talking out of your ass on this one.:3d_frown:

 

[ChrisBnAZ]

Yay..A topic I can get in on haha..

I worked at LS1 Motorsports for a couple years...We built LSx motors mainly for Sandrails and HotRods...Several of our Sandrails were putting out 1000+hp..But anyways, my buddy and I that I worked with at LS1 Motorsports are in the process of opening another shop called "Street 2 Strip" we'll be dealing with mainly LSx based vehicles but plan to work on any and every type of vehicle.

Within the next month or so I should be to the point where I'm going to start acquiring the parts needed to swap an LSx into my MK3. I can pick up a complete 5.3L out of a truck for $300. I'll tear it down, replace the bearings, hone the cylinders and assuming everything checks out alright, bolt the stock bottom end back together with arp bolts and be done. Haven't decided on a cam, but it will probably be a custom grind cam since we will be making our own cam kits for LSx's. I can get a set of 243's or LQ9 heads for practically nothing..I'll tear them down, do some porting, assemble them with comp springs/retainers/chrome moly valves etc..titanium pushrods and I'll be done with the long block..I'll just throw an LS6 manifold on it for the time being since we have about 10 of them lol..I plan on turbo'ing it, but haven't decided quite yet on turbo size/setup etc...Ideally, I'm looking to make between 650-700rwhp and still being able to daily drive it. It shouldn't be too hard to do with the right setup..After building/seeing tons of 600+hp LSX motors run reliably for thousands and thousands of hours I decided this is definitely the way I want to go with the MK3.

I've seen waaaay to many 7M's blow up, and frankly, I don't want to go JZ anything just because everyone's done it and I'd like to do something nobody or very very very few people are yet to do.

I'd like to run a T56, but may likely end up running a TH400 just for simplicity.

I should have the motor in my possesion and torn down a week or two after the new year.

We'll be doing all the fabrication of motor mounts/cross members and what ever else we may need at our shop. Once the project starts, I'll be sure to take tons of pics and keep a very detailed update thread.

 

[SupraMario]

Yay..A topic I can get in on haha..

I worked at LS1 Motorsports for a couple years...We built LSx motors mainly for Sandrails and HotRods...Several of our Sandrails were putting out 1000+hp..But anyways, my buddy and I that I worked with at LS1 Motorsports are in the process of opening another shop called "Street 2 Strip" we'll be dealing with mainly LSx based vehicles but plan to work on any and every type of vehicle.

Within the next month or so I should be to the point where I'm going to start acquiring the parts needed to swap an LSx into my MK3. I can pick up a complete 5.3L out of a truck for $300. I'll tear it down, replace the bearings, hone the cylinders and assuming everything checks out alright, bolt the stock bottom end back together with arp bolts and be done. Haven't decided on a cam, but it will probably be a custom grind cam since we will be making our own cam kits for LSx's. I can get a set of 243's or LQ9 heads for practically nothing..I'll tear them down, do some porting, assemble them with comp springs/retainers/chrome moly valves etc..titanium pushrods and I'll be done with the long block..I'll just throw an LS6 manifold on it for the time being since we have about 10 of them lol..I plan on turbo'ing it, but haven't decided quite yet on turbo size/setup etc...Ideally, I'm looking to make between 650-700rwhp and still being able to daily drive it. It shouldn't be too hard to do with the right setup..After building/seeing tons of 600+hp LSX motors run reliably for thousands and thousands of hours I decided this is definitely the way I want to go with the MK3.

I've seen waaaay to many 7M's blow up, and frankly, I don't want to go JZ anything just because everyone's done it and I'd like to do something nobody or very very very few people are yet to do.

I'd like to run a T56, but may likely end up running a TH400 just for simplicity.

I should have the motor in my possesion and torn down a week or two after the new year.

We'll be doing all the fabrication of motor mounts/cross members and what ever else we may need at our shop. Once the project starts, I'll be sure to take tons of pics and keep a very detailed update thread.

The 2jz Mark III swap is still quite uncommon, but the whole 7ms blowing up thing, thats just from people not properly maintaning them, it can happen to any engine.

 

[upgradedsupra]

Usable power means power that you can actually use, not power you have to wait a couple minutes for.

Tim

Just for the record, I only wait about 2 seconds for spool time and not 2 minutes :rofl:

Duane

 

[Rajunz]

But with a budget of say $5-6k, putting an LSx in your car is a better option. Someone can run the numbers if they want to, but try to be fair if you do. I mean, you could piece together some super cheap setup for the 1j/2j/7m and probably make as much power, but then reliability gets screwed up..............................Tim

Very reliable 7M, over 400RWHP, with an extremely usable power band. This will get you there, all fresh parts, and you can beat on it all day long if you put it together properly. The best part is no fabricating involved.

Rebuilt Short Block: $550 http://www.jisengine.com/list-prices/html/26033.html
Rebuilt Head: $500
Head Studs and Gaskets: $400
Fuel System: $700
Bolt on Turbocharger: $1400 http://notrice.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_59&products_id=33
Downpipe and Catback: $450
Performance Clutch: $400
Misc. $500

Total: $4900

.................In the end, it will come down to what you want to do with your car. I'm really just stating my reasons and justification for deciding to follow this path when the time comes. I just like the idea of less parts to fail, less expensive parts to add on, basically less work after the initial install. There's nothing worse to me than having to work on the engine at the track. I want something I can drive there and get 30mpg, then beat the piss out of all day without having to open the hood to fix stuff or cool it or check anything and then drive home. And I really think the LSx would match those desires better than anything else right now.

Tim

However, I can't disagree with anything you wrote here..........................

 

[flubyux2]

the LS2 DOES suck... i dont know of any other factory motor that was performance-oriented in its original design yet cant hold its own compression in the cylinders. LS1 GTO's are better to start with if you plan to mod as they have more power potential than the LS2 GTO's. i pity the foo with an LS2 GTO and ask them to downshift all the time...

however, the iron block 6.0, HELL YEAH. thats what id rather see if its gonna be a 365 cid V8.

oh, and the LS7, first factory V8 to redline over 7000rpm??? lets not forget the Z28 302... which spent it life at 9000rpm on the track, in STOCK FORM; the SCCA TRans Am racing series in its hey day. it was rated at 290hp at 5800 but mysteriously made over 350hp at 7000rpm. hmm, that must be why that motor spent its life over 7000rpm on the track; it still had power up there.

and you DO know that titanium rods ARE brittle right? its the nature of the metal... Sudden and dramatic increases in cylinder pressures (like Nitrous) Can and DO shatter rods. its Happened before, like when the Z first became available. i cant remember how big of a shot they were, but id be willing to bet a 125 shot is Small. it was probably an open -4 on small solenoids and anything north of that which will show the weakness of the rods. the LS7 is great for what it is as long as you dont try to ask alot more of it, or go about it carefully and sensibly.

but hey, what do i know... i have a 7m.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

lol a 7M vs LSX thread. This is gonna last forever.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Suprabad: how can you say 7m and jz's are so unreliable? you keep saying it yet theres Many 7ms and Hundreds of jz's making 600+ horsepower without issues.

 

[IJ.]

Suprabad: how can you say 7m and jz's are so unreliable? you keep saying it yet theres Many 7ms and Hundreds of jz's making 600+ horsepower without issues.

There are?

 

[Ma70.Ent]

There are?

I see like 5 7Ms that are running ok with 550+ rwhp

 

[IJ.]

I'm talking genuine 500>600 rwhp cars that are driven as is pull in strap on the rollers they lay down the numbers and are driven away without any "adjustments".......

 

[suprabad]

the LS2 DOES suck... i pity the foo with an LS2...

As compared to what? Your 7mgte? Guess what Mr. T, I also own one.

oh, and the LS7, first factory V8 to redline over 7000rpm??? lets not forget the Z28 302... which spent it life at 9000rpm on the track, in STOCK FORM; the SCCA TRans Am racing series in its hey day. it was rated at 290hp at 5800 but mysteriously made over 350hp at 7000rpm. hmm, that must be why that motor spent its life over 7000rpm on the track

Yeah that's right... FIRST OHV V8 PRODUCTION MOTOR WITH A REDLINE IN EXCESS OF 7K (7100rpm). Just wanted to make it clear. And it's a big bore motor.

oh and by the way Wrongo... I had a 69 302 Z28. I know just about everything about that "short stroke" motor there is to know. Same block bore as a 327 same stroke as a 283 hence...302.
Big cam, solid lifters...etc...please son.:nono:

10k rpm "in stock form"??? Nowhere near...you are tripping.
That's would be laughable if I didn't think you were serious.
Trans-am cars were factory backed total race cars. I know cause I was alive when they were racing them, were you? Even know who Dan Gurney is?

and you DO know that titanium rods ARE brittle right? its the nature of the metal... Sudden and dramatic increases in cylinder pressures (like Nitrous) Can and DO shatter rods.

How much personal experience do you have with Nos or titanium anything?

Duh..."sudden and dramatic increases in cylinder pressure....shatter rods". Yeah, and the sky is up and the ground is down and birds fly and fish swim. Did you get that quote out of your Import Tuner Magazine?
Do you have any idea what amounts of internal pressure or flexation or heat would cause this to happen?
No you don't.

but hey, what do i know...

You need to do some homework and get some real experience before you shoot your mouth off. I Could go on but it's late and I'm tired.

Somebody school this fool.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

There are?

You, Duane, knate, mibrum (sp?) to name a few off the top of my head, then theres the guy with the orange 10 second mk3, im sure slow66 will be/has made a genuine 500 without adjustments, the HAS to be people out there that arent popular on the forums making 500+. Blackdevilsupra, mrsupra, just to name a few more.

Adjustments to tune or race fuel dont effect the fact that people make 500+ horsepower without reliability issues with these motors.

 

[IJ.]

Chunks: Sorry that's not "many" that's a few......

There aren't that many people willing to drop the coin on a 7M to make it reliable at those power levels as there are far better alternatives available.

These days people contemplating an engine swap aren't burnt at the stake as Heretics so an LSx makes a lot of sense.