CF Targa Top
- Thread starter FatalStylez
- Start date
LMAO
Throw carbon fiber in the mix and everyones brains goes to mush and falls out of there open mouthes
Throw carbon fiber in the mix and everyones brains goes to mush and falls out of there open mouthes
Unlike steel carbon fiber does not exhibit isotropy properties, that is carbon fiber strength is directional. For a CF targa to outperform the factory targa, the person making it must understand how the forces will act across it and lay up accordingly.
If its primarily fiber glass with a final layer of carbon don't expect it to be anything other than a mantle piece.
If its primarily fiber glass with a final layer of carbon don't expect it to be anything other than a mantle piece.
I was only talking about the basic principle. I don't know that this particular targa is any lighter than original, just saying that if it is, it might help lower the center of gravity even if it isn't much lighter than stock. That's all I was saying. If you don't road race, then don't worry about it.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
If you want a lighter, stronger MK3, buy it from the start with a hardtop.
Many however like the targa, and when it's in place, the car is pretty secure, and free of rattles, but out, it's totally a flexi-flyer effect to the dash, and you can feel it through the steering wheel etc.
Not fun on anything but smooth roads. But, it is a very fun car to cruise around on smooth roads with the top off, sun out, and say mountains or beach sliding by... (But then again, now I have a motorcycle for this, so I'm getting spoiled..)
Onto Carbon fiber.
First, when done right, it's both lighter and stronger than most metals. (Like steel for example, or even Ti.)
Done wrong, the forces acting on the panel will crack the binder, and it will fall apart.
For the most part, metals have some elasticity to them, and the resins/binders used for compostite parts like CF panels are not very elastic.
There are design considerations for both materials. Some metals are not happy to be flexed, and there are some binders, and construction techniques that adapt the part to the design function needed. (IE: Light weight, and ability to flex while remaining strong.)
Think of an airplane wing. They are CONSTANTLY flexed in flight. Yet, they are made out of many Carbon Fiber parts, and other composite materials.... Why don't they just crack off and fail? Well, they are designed to flex, and millions of dollars in research have been spent to make sure the design is not flawed.
Do you think this CF Targa top has had millions spent to ensure it's going to handle the torsional and compressional loads the flexing unibody structure of the MK3 will put on it?
If you want to get a lighter MK3, start with known ways to reduce the weight on the car.
1) Replace the hood with a CF unit.
2) Remove all the stock seats, and interior trim, and replace with only two light race seats.
3) Replace glass with plexiglas on the quarters and reach hatch.
4) Remove all wipers, and motors/gears/linkage.
5) Replace door glass wtih plexiglas fixed in place, remove regulators and door trim/speakers.
6) Delete AC, Heat and stereo system.
7) Custom CF/Aluminum panel with just the basic guages. (IE: No dash at all.)
8) Ti exhaust.
9) Fill your wheels with helium.. (LOL I just threw that in there to be a smartass.. LOL)
Seriously, when does the car become no fun anymore... About the time you start trying to make a heavy car light?
I think it's so much more fun to just add power, lighter wheels, bigger brakes, and then TURN UP THE BOOST. (Then it's so much faster, it does not matter that it's a heavy car.)
Many however like the targa, and when it's in place, the car is pretty secure, and free of rattles, but out, it's totally a flexi-flyer effect to the dash, and you can feel it through the steering wheel etc.
Not fun on anything but smooth roads. But, it is a very fun car to cruise around on smooth roads with the top off, sun out, and say mountains or beach sliding by... (But then again, now I have a motorcycle for this, so I'm getting spoiled..)
Onto Carbon fiber.
First, when done right, it's both lighter and stronger than most metals. (Like steel for example, or even Ti.)
Done wrong, the forces acting on the panel will crack the binder, and it will fall apart.
For the most part, metals have some elasticity to them, and the resins/binders used for compostite parts like CF panels are not very elastic.
There are design considerations for both materials. Some metals are not happy to be flexed, and there are some binders, and construction techniques that adapt the part to the design function needed. (IE: Light weight, and ability to flex while remaining strong.)
Think of an airplane wing. They are CONSTANTLY flexed in flight. Yet, they are made out of many Carbon Fiber parts, and other composite materials.... Why don't they just crack off and fail? Well, they are designed to flex, and millions of dollars in research have been spent to make sure the design is not flawed.
Do you think this CF Targa top has had millions spent to ensure it's going to handle the torsional and compressional loads the flexing unibody structure of the MK3 will put on it?
If you want to get a lighter MK3, start with known ways to reduce the weight on the car.
1) Replace the hood with a CF unit.
2) Remove all the stock seats, and interior trim, and replace with only two light race seats.
3) Replace glass with plexiglas on the quarters and reach hatch.
4) Remove all wipers, and motors/gears/linkage.
5) Replace door glass wtih plexiglas fixed in place, remove regulators and door trim/speakers.
6) Delete AC, Heat and stereo system.
7) Custom CF/Aluminum panel with just the basic guages. (IE: No dash at all.)
8) Ti exhaust.
9) Fill your wheels with helium.. (LOL I just threw that in there to be a smartass.. LOL)
Seriously, when does the car become no fun anymore... About the time you start trying to make a heavy car light?
I think it's so much more fun to just add power, lighter wheels, bigger brakes, and then TURN UP THE BOOST. (Then it's so much faster, it does not matter that it's a heavy car.)
Comparing an F1 Tub to the Carbon Junk on the market is a joke guys......
please stop as the ONLY thing in Common is they both have "Carbon" in the name that's it.
please stop as the ONLY thing in Common is they both have "Carbon" in the name that's it.
Poodles;1213829 said:
poo....you are a smart dude....but you have no clue as to the properties of cf! carbon fiber is very very strong....so strong that its brittle!! not brittle like glass but damn near! you keep going into f1 cars n such...
well an f1 car chassis is designed very very light and very very ridged.....thats why when an f1 car gets into an accident that damn thing damn near vaporizes on impact....it simply can not flex or else it breaks....
if you make carbon fiber thick enough then it can handle impacts...same thing with glass....hell i have a glass pipe that is so thick i can throw it across the room and it wont break....same deal with carbon fiber...
now im no expert on cf but i have worked with it ALOT! ive machined it...ive made it...and ive also formed it....my uncle builds prosthetic limbs and uses so much cf but its all directional loads put on the stuff...anything that takes torsional loads uses metal.
if carbon fiber was "stronger" than steel then why dont they make carbon fiber crankshafts?????? because it simply cannot handle stress.
:nono:
The tub in an F1 car is immensely strong but it's due to design and the fact it's a composite structure NOT just that one of the components in the composite is Carbon Fibre.......
I have NEVER seen a pic of a broken or "vaporised" Tub it doesn't happen, sure EVERYTHING else will come off as it absorbs energy during a crash but the Tub "should" remain intact if it doesn't it won't pass the tests as the start of each season where they sacrifice a new tub.
The tub in an F1 car is immensely strong but it's due to design and the fact it's a composite structure NOT just that one of the components in the composite is Carbon Fibre.......
I have NEVER seen a pic of a broken or "vaporised" Tub it doesn't happen, sure EVERYTHING else will come off as it absorbs energy during a crash but the Tub "should" remain intact if it doesn't it won't pass the tests as the start of each season where they sacrifice a new tub.
i dont know of many airplanes that have cf wings.....most i know are aluminum sheet with aluminum skeleton....now im sure alot of the mis hardware and components are cf but the wings themselves are not cf....i know that many props are cf but again they dont flex much and its mostly directional load.
some helicopter blades are cf but ive never seen many military jets or even civilian aircraft becides maybe ultralights with cf wings.
IJ.;1214692 said:
didnt mean the cockpit.....i meant everything else....the nose and wings damn near explode...the cockpit will hold together like a race boat cockpit....but if im not mistaken the cockpit and almost compleatly a component of its own meant to simply protect the driver and not actually be a part of the chassis itself.?
gab: the rest of the car is MEANT to sacrafice itself in an impact to save the driver.
CF targas have been around for a while for MKIV's, and I've never heard of a failure from them. I still plan on buying one eventually since my targa isn't perfect, and it's still heavy...
Carbon fiber isn't brittle, but it doesn't like sheer forces (weaving is done to counter this). Take a strand of carbon fiber and try to pull it until it snaps. I guarantee you can't do it with your hands. Now, tie it in a knot and then try, and it will snap.
I doubt BMW spent millions on designing the roof for the M3 (which are now carbon fiber)...
CF targas have been around for a while for MKIV's, and I've never heard of a failure from them. I still plan on buying one eventually since my targa isn't perfect, and it's still heavy...
Carbon fiber isn't brittle, but it doesn't like sheer forces (weaving is done to counter this). Take a strand of carbon fiber and try to pull it until it snaps. I guarantee you can't do it with your hands. Now, tie it in a knot and then try, and it will snap.
I doubt BMW spent millions on designing the roof for the M3 (which are now carbon fiber)...
my car feel a little less responsive when the targa is off, but Im not on the track with the targa off. In my past I have done some runs on the street with the targa off and the ONLY thing I felt was more traction in the rear. {not much...not much more at all} So im in I would buy a cf targa top then the hood and I dream of the cf doors. At that point the cf on my car would be worth more then the car. Along with the bbs lm's.
I guess that makes sense if the car torques and it twist and puts more weight on that back right tire.
If you get a full roll cage, you can use a CF targa. 
But seriously, I like the stock one just fine.
But seriously, I like the stock one just fine.
I am going to buy a carbon fiber hood and just to match, I am also going to buy the carbon fiber targa top. Im not doing it at all to save weight Im doing it because it would look good. Just my 2 cents.