FYI, I believe you can buy some good ole Marvel Mystery Oil really cheap too. Even supermarkets sell it, it's called Transmission Fluid.
Bi-Tron Oil Additive...Snake Oil? You be the Judge
- Thread starter jdub
- Start date
- Status
This has probably already been mentioned but I'm to lazy to read all the posts, after watching the bi-tron vid I thought to my self don't they know the oil around your bearings is under pressure and that your bearings never make contact (or shouldn't).
I am looking into developing a home testing kit for those who do not want to wait. I'll keep you posted. Cheers - Brad
Brad - any home testing kit will be inconclusive if it is based on TBN. Like I said in our PM's, TBN is affected by numerous things in the motor...blow by, condensation, coolant in the oil to name a few. To do a valid test based on oil analysis you would first have to have a track record on the motor using the same oil over a period of at least three 3000 mile intervals. You would then change the oil, use the same brand/grade oil, add Bi-Tron and do the same thing over the same period. You would have to watch the TNB and the wear metals present in the analysis. If anything changed in the motor, it would invalidate the results and the results would not be conclusive anyway as to what the analysis shows due to the small statistical sample (one motor). The data would have to be repeated over many, many motors to infer that Bi-Tron has the advertised effect.
Also, if Bi-Tron contains chloroparaffin like I think it does and you use it in a oil than has a high TNB, the free acid build-up will create a salt...just as corrosive. You would have to use oil analysis and monitor TBN closely...when it drops to the 2-3 range, the oil would require changing. I (among others) would very much like to see the chemical make-up of Bi-Tron. Although spectroscopy has it's limitations, it would give us a fairly good idea of what's in this stuff.
Also, if Bi-Tron contains chloroparaffin like I think it does and you use it in a oil than has a high TNB, the free acid build-up will create a salt...just as corrosive. You would have to use oil analysis and monitor TBN closely...when it drops to the 2-3 range, the oil would require changing. I (among others) would very much like to see the chemical make-up of Bi-Tron. Although spectroscopy has it's limitations, it would give us a fairly good idea of what's in this stuff.
Zazzn said:
No I did. It was a while back and Zazzn said something that triggered my response.
I never really am on Supramania and read the whole topic, this is nuts guys! Everyone chill. Look, every time says Bi-tron is awsome, blah, blah, blah....you just come back and say. Where's the scientific evidence and thats cool and all, you have that right. But you cant ignore what customers are saying about the product, you can ignore the business aspect to this company promoting their product.
It is true, I ran a Porsche 944 for nearly and hour on this stuff without oil at idle. And yes I have the video of this feat, but it's all the way up in IL where my family lives, I'll have to pick it up sometime so Bitron can use it. Its sick, I was so scared for this motor, seriously.
I am an Aerospace and mechanical engineering student, and I have access to the chemistry lab and tools. I believe there is someone doing tests on it? Well if so, great! but if what ever reason it doesnt go through I can have it done pretty quickly. My spring break is coming up so I am real busy, but I'll keep checking in.
Last edited by a moderator:
Spaniard said:
Your post consist of you:
Telling us we are crazy for asking for proof.
Telling us we can't refute testimonials.
Telling us yet another 'amazing' testimonial, but you have no proof of it.
Telling us you could do the tests, but you are already making excuses as to why they will never get done.
Simply put, it my opinion you are full of shit. Until I see your video and/or your test results, you are just another person making noise on the behalf of snake oil salespeople. Or you are one yourself, or you are compensated for your comments. Not really sure which you are, but it really matters not.
I'll make two predictions:
1. The video somehow is lost, destroyed or will never appear, or will be questionable, or of low quailty.
-and-
2. The tests will never happen because someone is too busy, or will be prevented from doing so.
Once again, where is ANY evidence whatsoever that this is anything but snake oil?
Anecdotal evidence is worthless. You are just making noise.
Proof, that's all we'd like to see. Simple scientific evidence.
I see none. But I do see all the hallmarks of snake oil.
Show me something other than bullshit.
Spaniard said:
Do it. A second test won't hurt, and would help immensely. If this is the holy grail of additives as you'd have us believe, I'll bet the test results will be impressive.
Personally I think you won't deliver, nor will anyone who is backing this crap.
But, but...it has stylized molecules!
http://tinyurl.com/2oawkx
As if many oils aren't polar. The key word here is "student". Apparently not a very good one either. Fine with me...otherwise he'd be giving engineers everywhere a bad name
http://tinyurl.com/2oawkx
As if many oils aren't polar. The key word here is "student". Apparently not a very good one either. Fine with me...otherwise he'd be giving engineers everywhere a bad name
I feel like I'm at pre school again from looking at those crude drawings and explainations of "how it works".
im starting to think some of the test's they do to show their oil is good are junk... this might be a little bit of rambling but......
i have a beater pos celica w/a 22re thats leaking oil from the timming cover /hg ,since that day, ihave been needing to putt abotu 2 quarts in every 100 miles or lilttle more..
and i used this car to deliver pizza in when ever i can.. to save on fuel.
this got fing expensive, so i started starving the motor.. then stoped driving her since my sup was fixed,
now im back in the beast, and im running used oil in her, of unknown quality.. most of the oil i run though her is black and not very chunky... lol but i do have to admit, i ran about 2-3 (aka alot) of oil through her that had coolant in the water (light brown "used" oil) needless to say this should have killed a motor with 220k+ miles on it.. but she is still going!
i probaly run it out of oil every day, i would die to see the bearings in good condition! lol
i have a beater pos celica w/a 22re thats leaking oil from the timming cover /hg ,since that day, ihave been needing to putt abotu 2 quarts in every 100 miles or lilttle more..
and i used this car to deliver pizza in when ever i can.. to save on fuel.
this got fing expensive, so i started starving the motor.. then stoped driving her since my sup was fixed,
now im back in the beast, and im running used oil in her, of unknown quality.. most of the oil i run though her is black and not very chunky... lol but i do have to admit, i ran about 2-3 (aka alot) of oil through her that had coolant in the water (light brown "used" oil) needless to say this should have killed a motor with 220k+ miles on it.. but she is still going!
i probaly run it out of oil every day, i would die to see the bearings in good condition! lol
Because the I'm interested in the topic and this thread wasn't concluded. Also, two weeks is hardly bringing a thread back from the dead...
Supracentral said:
Wow dude. You need to chill man. I didnt say you couldnt refute or your super crazy, I just think you guys are not seeing the big picture. But I also said that I understand why you want the evidence. Your also saying I cant come up here without evidence. Its very easy for you to point and finger at someone and say, "You are full of shit." Why dont you do the tests yourself if your so passionate about putting everyone down. I have not done the tests on the oil cause i just gained access to the chemistry lab yesterday, but you wouldnt of known that unless you asked. Instead you just make fun of people and say, "you are full of shit." Well frankly I dont see you doing anything constructive.
As for the video, I made a phone call back home and asked my father to find the dvd-r of the video and he has the video in dvd qauality in dolby-digital sound and I will post it as soon as I go back home or have him mail it to me.
So the next time you come on here and just point a finger, do it with some self-restraint cause I'm only helping here and apparently unless I am up here with proof of Bitron working I cant through in my .02 cents. Well this is what Supramania is all about. Discussing and solving problems to make all our cars better than the next. Shit man...I have lost total respect for you.
I have placed another order of Bitron to have the analysis done. So you can expect results in 2 weeks, that is after I'm back from my Spring Break. If that is too slow for you, you can go get an engineering degree or take a chemistry class and do it your fucking self.
In no way did I try to offend anyone and you come off saying stupid shit and putting people down. This is not what the forums are intended for. Make use of your time better.
That is all I have for now. I'm sorry to all of you other Supra guys, I respect you all, and I never like things to escalate like this, but I feel that I have been dis-respected when I have the best intentions in the world to find the answer to this issue and stupid comments like this should be left at the door.
Spaniard, you're the one that sounds like a moron. Actually you and all the other Bitron testimonial jingoists. I'm sick of hearing these worthless testimonial posts in this thread.Spaniard said:
EVERYTIME WE'VE ASKED FOR SCIENTIFIC PROOF, we've received excuses. What really cracks me up is this bi-tron sales rep here saying he sell us the proof in the form of a "home testing kit" we can buy LOL..what a jip and a joke! I recently read a post on bobistheoilguy.com forum how someone tried the same thing Spaniard did and drove their car around only on bitron, then it shortly self destructed :icon_bigg . I'm with supracentral on this one, show us the proof or stop posting your filthy stupid advertising BS.
Spaniard said:
Actually suprasport91 was going to do the tests last we heard. We don't even know where the hell you fit into all this. Nobody asked about your tests. You are the new kid. I'm not passionate about putting people down. I'm passionate about truth. I'd like to see or hear some. Not more bullshit.
I'm not trying to sell this snake oil. I don't need to do anything "constructive". I (and other members of this community) asked for test data to back up the unbelievable claims that are made about this product. So far we've heard nothing but testimonials. We've gone overall this several times in this thread. I'd suggest you go back and read it.
Spaniard said:
And what will this video prove in the end?
Give me a simple explanation why nobody can provide simple science on this product. Why can't a supposed multi-million dollar company get lab tests performed? Why does this product rely on some college kid stealing lab time for it's testing?
Please. The reason you are being told you are full of shit is, well, because you are full of shit.
Spaniard said:
Have you read this thread? I'd suggest you go back and do so. You might be able to puzzle out why we don't really want, nor need another bullshit testimonial. I will use, or not use self restraint as I see fit. You haven't earned my respect. As another of the testimonial crew supporting the sale of snake oil, you've actually earned my disdain. I could give a flying shit about who you respect. You have no credibility at this point.
Spaniard said:
I don't need to. I'm not selling this shit. I don't need to perform tests because I'm not the one making outrageous claims. I'd like to see the seller of a product produce evidence that the product he is selling can do what he claims it does. For some reason, this got sand in your vagina. I'm not sure why it matters so much to you. What's your vested interest here?
Spaniard said:
I'll make use of my time as I see fit. Today, I choose to use it to ask questions about a product that is being sold with claims that aren't credible. You stuck your face into the middle of this debate, and added more worthless chatter. If you had read the thread, you should have known that another unsubstantiated testimonial was going to get nothing but flack. Take your righteous indignation elsewhere junior, I'm singularly unimpressed.
Spaniard said:
Let's talk about "feelings" and "good intentions" now. Please little man, if it's this easy for you to get wounded, you really should stay indoors and not talk with anyone.
By the way, are you a member of this MLM? Are you compensated in any way for this "opinion" that you are expressing? Are you in Tekdus' downline?
Just curious.
- Status