Bi-Tron Oil Additive...Snake Oil? You be the Judge

[jdub]

Instead of hi-jacking Phoenix's thread, I thought I would start a new one on the attributes of oil additives...specifically Bi-Tron. Here's how this started...since I couldn't find a recent thread to debate Bi-Tron, I started this one.

Peaked my interest

Marvel is mainly a 5W light oil with a little naphtha, some phosphorus, and a dash of wintergreen for the smell. Bitron is 100% snake oil. The guy who sells it here didn't even know Supras don't have oil warning lights and he owns one. Lucas? Look here: http://tinyurl.com/2y7fj

Don't fall for additive marketing BS and don't put anything in your crankcase but good oil that huge companies with millions of dollars in R&D and PHD chemists worked years to develop and constantly improve. If any of that crap worked don't you think they'd already be using it? Or the automakers would?

I know you're in a hurry to get your car going but you'd better take your time to check it out. Every Supra I've ever looked at wasn't running right even though the owner thought it was fine.

The reply:

I just bought my first MK3 this year and I've never run low on oil so I didn't know they didn't have a "low oil" light. Bi-Tron has in fact solved valve ticking problems for more than one Supra owner, see this page:
http://www.echowavepro.com/bitronsupratest.htm

I cannot "fake" massive positive forum and eBay feedback.

I'm not promising that it will always solve valve tick issues, but apparently it does sometimes, perhaps by freeing sticky lifters. You are correct about 90%+ of the additives out there donny, but there is another thread to debate about that

 

[jdub]

Here's some info on Bi-Tron from the oil forum I frequent...these guys are into oil in a big way. I'll make comments on each link:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/for...9&Words=Bi-Tron&topic=&Search=true#Post295779

This one asserts that Bi-Tron is most like a chloroparaffin base...an additive most commonly found in machine oils. This link explains what it is:
http://apps.kemi.se/flodessok/floden/kemamne_eng/klorparaffiner_eng.htm
Note: in the text, chloroparaffin is corrosive at high temperatures. The chlorine is released from the carbon chain and forms resilient metallic chlorides in the surface of the metal...hydrochloric acid from disintegration causes corrosion. This means you better be using Bi-Tron in an oil with a high Total Base Number (TBN) to counteract this effect. Here's what TBN does (from the same forum):
"Total Base Number does not measure the accumulation of oxidation products or antioxidants, rather, it measures the depletion of a detergents present in an engine oil for the purposes of neutralizing acidic blow-by gases which occurs due to low levels of antioxidants with in the oil. As the detergent is consumed in its role of neutralizing sludge and varnish, the base number decreases from its original new oil value. Monitoring this consumption allows one to proactively replenish the oil through change out before the protection afforded by that additive is lost.

This is one reason why higher levels of TBN's can mislead you into thinking it is better when in fact all it is stating is that it has higher levels of detergents to keep the engine clean but the base oil can oxidize(or breakdown) faster than one with higher levels of antioxidants which prevents the acids by neutralizing the attacking acids as oppose to cleaning up the by products of the oxidized oil."



http://theoildrop.server101.com/for...0&Words=Bi-Tron&topic=&Search=true#Post293300

Basically, compares Bi-Tron to the other "snake oils" out there. Amazing how each company pushing these products uses the same test with such different results



http://theoildrop.server101.com/for...8&Words=Bi-Tron&topic=&Search=true#Post290758

This one has a link to a video on Bi-Tron...a couple of interesting things. The torque applied states "in lbs"...is that ft/lbs or in/lbs? Well watching the video and observing the guy leaning on the torque lever at 600 "lbs", it's gotta be in/lbs...that's 50 ft/lbs of torque pressure. I guess you guys out there pushing 450 ft/lbs of torque on your built motors on synthetic motor oil have already ate your bearing up and don't even know it
In addition, this is not a API/SAE certified test. Looks good on the video, but I have my doubts...seen the same kinda thing for Slick 50 and Marvel Mystery Oil. As a side note, here a test on what Lucas does in a side-by-side with another gear oil:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm (same one Donny posted above).



I have to agree with Donny...Bi-Tron has all the attributes of another "snake oil". You want to take care of your motor? Forget this type of band-aid and run a high quality motor oil in the 5W-30 or 5W-40 range, change it every 5000 miles and keep it as close to 100 deg C with a good cooler as you can.

 

[Reign_Maker]

You frequent an oil forum?

Good info to know...

 

[malloynx]

pfffff,, i'm going to try bi-tron to fix the huge ass hole in my block and my broken connecting rod..

don't hate on bi-tron

 

[loki2043]

i thought i read somewhere about putting some in your tranny to help out some parts... any insight on that?

 

[tekdeus]

Scepticism is cool, I felt the same when I first heard about it, and read all the crap about additives in general. I made those testing videos to show that some "infomercial" products that claimed to do this, did not(Duralube, Slick50). I cannot "stage" any of what I show in my videos here http://www.echowavepro.com/bitrontechvid.htm and anyone who lives near me can come and try the test themselves. The torque wrench is in inch pounds, and since the fulcrum is 1 inch from the pivot, 600 inch-pounds equals 600 pounds of force on the bearings at the fulcrum.

I too read about how other products used corrosive stuff like chlorine to "bond to metal". Bi-Tron claims their product is totally non-corrosive and contains no solids. I'm trying think up some more tests to prove this, even though my engine parts are clean as a whistle after 3 years of using the products myself.

One thing is for certain, and that is that nothing else even comes close to the lubricating power of Bi-Tron, and Bi-Tron is has been making thousands of people happy with what it does for their cars and I've never heard a single mention of problems or corrosion. It has been around since 1994 and has stood the test of time. It has sold $100 million worth of product worldwide since then using network distribution, the same method that Amsoil distributes their products. You will never see a corporate Bi-Tron TV infomercial, that is not how the products are promoted.

I still get many inquiries on the net from old customers looking to get more because of what it did for them in the past.

I've met a guy who has been running it since the 90's and has racked up 500,000 km's on his car without rebuilding, so that combined with the hundreds of others I've videotaped with their feedback convinced me that it is safe to use long-term. Considering how fast us high-horsepower guys wear through rod and turbo bearings... think about it

If you guys haven't read my latest "feedback page", check it out. http://www.echowavepro.com/bitronsupratest.htm Every single Supra guy who has tried it, loves it. Also be sure to see the feedback from the Saab owner from another forum, as well as the eBay customer who "saved 2 differential rebuilds".

Like I said, I cannot "fake" this endless stream of positive forum and eBay feedback. I just enjoy pimping the best product out there and helping people save money and improve their cars.

P.S. Bi-Tron does not foam up like Lucas, and I will create a new show soon to show that.

Cheers - Brad

 

[jdub]

Brad - Your correct in one thing : chloroparaffin has excellent lubricating properties...however, it breaks down under high temperature (like those in an automotive engine). And the by-product of this breakdown is hydrochloric acid...that's not skepticism...that's simple chemistry. That's fine for machining metal on a lathe or mill...it's not fine for running in an engine over long periods of time. Running Teflon (Slick 50) is no better. You will have a very hard time convincing me that Bi-Trol is good for my engine, regardless of the testimonials. I want to see API/SAE certified test data...I searched and could not find any...is that because Bi-Trol neglected to have API or SAE to look at the product? Or is it because they didn't want the people responsible for oil standardization to see what was actually in it?

Speaking of tests...the one in that video had the "bearing" being pressed to the machine roller at a 90 deg angle to it. The "bearings" are perpendicular to each other...when is the last time you saw a bearing designed in that configuration? It makes the contact points very small and allows no oil film thickness to build...that's the way oil lubrication works and every part in an engine requiring lubrication is designed with that in mind. That is not even close to a real world test. In addition, here's a quote from the Bi-Tron website:

"Each of these tests has been conducted by independent laboratories on behalf of Bi-Tron International. We are prevented from publishing more of the many test reports we have amassed throughout our extensive product development and testing by the laboratories themselves. They prefix their findings with a paragraph expressly prohibiting the republishing of their test reports for any advertising or marketing.

Originals of all test reports are kept strictly on file but similar results can be obtained in any independent laboratory at any time."

Hmmm...and all the major oil companies are willing (including Amsoil) to publish data? Why would the "labs" not be willing to stand behind their findings? Why is there at least information on the type of tests? Could it be because the tests were designed to show Bi-Tron was superior...i.e. the test was going to favor Bi-Tron regardless? I'm thinking that's probably the best reason a lab wouldn't want the type of test and the result released. It would be a field day for the guys that actually know how oil works.

Instead of "thinking up tests", why not submit Bi-Trol to API/SAE for certification?

Boy...I almost forgot...again from Bi-Trol's website:

"Back in 1994, a group of Russian scientists released a technology previously held as a military secret. This product was a metal treatment that was used in Siberia because of its ability to provide lubrication in an extremely wide range of temperatures and conditions. The Russian scientists introduced this technology to North America in 1994.

After further research by a leading automobile industry engineer, the technology was acquired, further enhanced, and initially put into production and a pilot sales program in 1994. Within a few short years, sales reached $100 million.

Bi-Tron products are regularly improved upon as a result of continuing research and development by leading chemists from the U.S., Canada, and England."

It's a secret! You guys can't tell us what's actually in this magic elixir or you'd have to shoot all of us. Of course, one of these days a motivated individual will submit a sample for mass gas chromatograph analysis and the preverbal "cat will be out of the bag".

Brad - you can talk testimonial all day and into next week...that doesn't prove anything. There are no standards involved, it's individual perception, there are no experimental controls. The stuff I read on Bi-Trol's website and the main selling point of this additive is based on "testimonials" makes me believe that it is snake oil without a doubt. It's human nature...the "believers" are going "witness" the magic...a magic that's simply cannot be attained by this or any other product.

 

[GotToyota?]

It's hard to choose a side, as jdub and tekdeus both make valid points, but jdub goes more into physical depth. I think I might consider using it as soon as I see professional tests conducted.

-Matt

 

[donnys90T]

Someone who actually does research. How refreshing.

The snake oil guys always crack me up. Any solvent will free a stuck lifter. For example diesel fuel but that's no reason to dilute your oil with it. A newly built engine shouldn't have stuck lifters anyway. Not to mention this particular engine doesn't use hydraulics to maintain valve lash.

His ebay feedback reflects only that he delivered the product. Any anecdotal testimonials there or elsewhere are just that. They use the same subjective comments like "seems", "feels like", "sounds better" that are used on all snake oil sites. It's not magic that some engines quiet when the oil is thickened. What these guys never point out is the downside of doing it.

I say show us some real science. Real data, not anecdotal claims by gullible buyers. Most of whom from reading this and other boards know nothing about tribology and can't even repair simple problems with their cars. People who don't even know how to select the proper oil for their engines let alone are qualified to judge an additive. The "science" on Bitron's site is the same old pseudo-science mumbo-jumbo designed to mislead a gullible and ignorant public. The statement "Bi-Tron coats all metal surfaces with a layer of positively charged ionic oil molecules" alone would make any first year chemistry or physics student die laughing.

Are they referring to a polar molecule? If so why not just say that? Big deal. Any good ester based motor oil is polar. I'm asking him to explain exactly what that statement means so someone with a knowledge chemistry and physics can understand it. I have a feeling he can't so get the explanation from Bitron and post it up. Or is he worried there are people who read car forums that are actually knowledgeable in these fields?

20% fuel savings? lol! The automakers and oil companies, each of whom do everything they can to obtain the slightest marketing edge, would be all over this stuff if it worked. Why aren't they? Could it be because they spend years and millions formulating oils in state of the art labs employing the best petrochemical engineers they can hire? Reduced emissions by as much as 90%? As a former certified emissions technician I found that truly laughable. So much so I won't even discuss it. If either of these claims were anywhere near true the government would also be all over Bitron. I wonder if he'll tell us how much of this wonder juice is sold to the military, DOT, NASA, etc?

There are several ways the four ball, bearing, and other tests used to promote these scams can be manipulated. All the snake oil salesmen know these tricks and routinely employ them at dozens of auto shows across the country to dupe the motoring public. If this stuff is so great why is it sold on ebay and over the internet? How come I can't buy it at my local auto store or Wally World? Why do these firms often rely on kids and retired folks to peddle their crap? Isn't the entire point to increase sales volume and make money?

What are his credentials? Is he trained in tribology? Is he a CLS? Does he have any background that'd qualify him to offer legitimate science, data, or even opinion to back up this product or are his beliefs another case of brainwashing by the parent firm? I'd like him to answer this question.

There are a few additives out there that perform as claimed. They work in limited applications to solve specialized problems because the science/chemistry behind them is correctly applied, understandable, and verifiable. Bitron isn't one of them. Only the true snake oils make the outrageous claims it does and the pseudo-science used to promote them would be hilarious if it wasn't being used to rip people off.

I see two possible situations here. He's either fully aware this stuff is snake or he actually believes it works. Either way he should be embarrassed. In the first case for scamming an uneducated and ignorant public and even more so his fellow Supra owners. In the second for peddling a product while being ignorant about the science behind it and lubrication in general. That he can push this stuff at all is a testament to "there's a sucker born every minute". His may even be one himself. He should put the stuff in his own car and drive it just 10 minutes without oil. If he proves he did that I'll buy all he can sell.

 

[jdub]

Wow jdub I knew you were into oil, but an oil forum? :icon_bigg
I don't ever plan on using any type of oil but synth or regular.

Yeah...I confess...I'm an oil geek. JJ converted me :biglaugh:
There's a couple of additives out there that work...they basically reinforce the add pack in the oil. No outlandish claims either...they are what they are.

It's hard to choose a side, as jdub and tekdeus both make valid points, but jdub goes more into physical depth. I think I might consider using it as soon as I see professional tests conducted.

-Matt

Yes I do Matt. I've learned over the years is it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Testimonials are the huge warning sign...if you dig, you'll see little to back the claims up on the science side. They will tell you it's there, but offer no hard data.

 

[mdr40z]

My thoughts exactly on Larry_A, as for oil addys I just have to tell a funny story about Marvel Mystery oil. I had a 300zx, both turbos locked up (probably due to running too hard and shutting down too quick) anyhow was that way for about a month, totally pissin me off. I took it to Nissan to see what it would cost to fix (too high) and one of the mechanics told me to put some MMO in there and take it to Memphis at about 100 in second gear, well I put some in and ran the living snot out of it for about 10 miles (jumping up and down on the accelerator) and sure enough BOTH turbos let go at once and ran like a scalded dog again, used it from then on on that car. Chances are they may have freed up anyhow driving like that but made me a believer in MMO, but I would never use it in the supra, I use it in my high mileage vehicles to keep the gunk down, but only M1 in the Supra you can't get better protection over a wide range of operating conditions.

 

[NashMan]

hummmmmm at lest we knwo it will not fome and that's like one of the worest thing's that can happen to oil

 

[bigaaron]

As for the Bitron, it is obviously marketed to the people who think an oil additive can fix a mechanical problem in their engine.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Yeah...I confess...I'm an oil geek. JJ converted me :biglaugh:
There's a couple of additives out there that work...they basically reinforce the add pack in the oil. No outlandish claims either...they are what they are.

Cool, lets cut through the crap and debate. I'd love to hear the opinions of someone who has done the background work on oil and additives, because I'm probably not going to spend the time myself. :icon_bigg

So what specific additives work, what do they really accomplish, at what price, are they ulitmately worth the $, and what are the downsides, if any? How about a quick bullet list?

 

[shaeff]

yeah, so i just spent about 10 minutes cleaning this thread. keep it this way.

-shaeff

 

[jdub]

Shytheed - The additive I was referring to is Valvoline SynPower Oil Treatment (VSOT). It's good for reinforcing an oil's additive pack (especially a cheap Group III oil), but you don't want to go nuts with it...i.e. more is not better. Otherwise you risk changing the oil that you are using additive's pack...they pay the engineers quite well to come up with the formulas for oil. VSOT is useful when your oil is starting to oxidize and lose it's effectiveness from a wear stand point. VSOT contains in PPM:

Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 2
Copper 1
Lead 0
Tin 0
Molybdenum 3481
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 1367
Silicon 33
Sodium 60
Calcium 1719
Magnesium 2718
Phosphorus 2109
Zinc 2626
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 188.8
Flashpoint 345F
TBN 16.1

Pretty much the same things you will see in a good synthetic motor oil. Note the viscosity is quite high...this is thick stuff. I wouldn't use more than 1.5 - 2 oz per quart of oil (about 7-10 oz in a Supra)...otherwise you risk going well out of grade on your oil's viscosity. Also note that VSOT contains moly; it's the organic type soluable in oil...it will not fall out of suspension and clog up your oil filter.

The other additive I was thinking about is a product called Auto-RX. IMO, it's more an cleaner for a sludged up engine. It's rather expensive (like $25 a bottle), but seems to do what it claims to. It contains one or more of the esters out there and esters are very good at cleaning, so the chemistry seems to fit. Would i use it? If I neglected my engine, ran cheap oil for too long and got it all gummed up inside, yeah I give it a shot. But I never will have to...I use very good oil that will never cause that problem

Now having said all that...if you use a true synthetic (Group IV or V) oil, you will have very little need for additives. These oils are at the top of the lubrication game (especially the Group V ester based). You run one of these oils and you will be amazed if you tear the motor down...it will be as clean as the day it was built inside. What I think is a good idea is to run the German Castrol 0W-30 (a Group IV - PAO base) with a 1/2 quart of an ester based oil (like Red Line) as a seal conditioner. Is it necessary? Probably not, but it makes me feel better having the ester in there
I'm not a big advocate of using additives in a well formulated oil.

An additive like VSOT would really come in to play if your were doing extended oil changes (at 15K or so)...you do those long interval changes if you have a by-pass filter system installed in addition the standard filter. Adding 4 oz or so every 5,000 miles when you change the standard filter as a "refresher" to your oil's additive pack would be good practice.

One thing to note about what I said above...I was able to tell you what was in the additives. Something the "snake oil" salesmen will not do

 

[tekdeus]

As for the Bitron, it is obviously marketed to the people who think an oil additive can fix a mechanical problem in their engine.

They don't actually. I am the one who tells people it can let them get away with *not* rebuilding *some" worn parts in many cases, based on several cases I've personally witnessed, including my own Mk2.

Forget all the science and marketing crap Donny is yapping about. View the results for what they are: You've all seen my video where a rough, hardened steel metal surface is grinding away under excessive load, and how when coated with Bi-Tron, the seizing stops and the surfaces become polished, with no corrosion. What is happening? The camera does not lie. Scientifically it is called "plastic deformation". In the absence of friction and in the presence of extreme shearing forces, rough metal will smooth itself out.

So in the countless cases of where people simply add Bi-Tron to take care of their noisy pinion bearings, transfer cases, or drive chains (eg. Saab), this is exactly what is occurring to completely stop the exponential wear, due to misaligned surfaces and shavings in the oil. It is not replacing metal, it is simply performing the extreme lubrication required in these extreme cases, that not even the best synthetic could touch: resurfacing worn parts and pulverising any remaining shavings.

It's human nature...the "believers" are going "witness" the magic...a magic that's simply cannot be attained by this or any other product.

It doesn't take a a lot of common sense to notice that a massive noise dissapears upon application of the product. This is not magic, this is science(look up "plastic deformation"). It's funny how you guys are somehow blind to this aspect?

Regarding the lubricant breaking down, I drove for 3 hot months in my Mk2 Supra including overheating from a blocked radiator, and tested a few drops of oil from my dipstick on my testing machine in the fall and it still had its off-the-scale lubrication abilities. To me this suggests that whatever technology it is, it’s molecules are very stable even under the extreme temperatures and conditions in an engine. Plus it's not like I'm hiding secrets and not letting anyone come check out the results for themselves on my testing machine. Anyone is welcome.

In the end, I don't have a science lab and I am doing what I can with what I have (cameras, cars, people). I am convinced it is good for my cars and for others as well. If someone notices a smoother drivetrain or avoids a rebuild and keeps going year after year without problems, that rocks! If the definition of a snake oil is simply an oil that does nothing, then this is not one of them. Sure a lot of people are morons regarding perceived results, but there is a threshold. Mileage is measurable, as is noise and wear. I've personally seen great results in over a 100 cars and beleive it is not corrosive or breaks down as suggested; otherwise there would have been some evidence of this by now, which there is not, and is all just theory based on old obselete compounds.

They split the atom in the 1940's. Do you think a product that lubricates like this one and is non-corrosive is SO impossible and hard to beleive? It's 2007 for pete's sake.

Every one of the Supra owners below bought the products for nothing more than to protect through superior lubrication, but freely submitted these extra bonuses they noticed. To suggest that they are all brainwashed morons is a pretty insulting statement. We are all very in tune with our cars. I never promise these results, but they happen often. Do you think Spaniard is "brainwashed by hype" when his porchse ran for an hour with no problem?

“I bought two bottles of the engine formulation and one bottle of the transmission formulation about a week ago and have been running it in my 89 turbo automatic. The engine does seem to rev smoother when pushed hard. Before it would grunt, now it would rev easier. The tranny does shift smoother. Before there would a bit of shift shock during the 1->2 shift, now there isn't as much shock.

Does it work to provide better lubrication? Yes. Does it add more horsepower? Well that's debatable. The weather is getting colder, and turbo cars like the cold air better, so it has been pulling stronger in the middle of the night when I'm driving home from work. Plus I've been doing little horsepower mods to the car to get better performance.

But, I didn't buy the stuff to give me more horsepower. I bought it to provide better lubrication, which it did. I am satisfied with the product. If it gives me 1 or 2 more horsepower or even more, then great, I could always use more.”

- koulee on Supramania
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28631&page=2

"Off topic, but yea i got a bunch of bi-tron stuff recently, put some in my torsen diff (with redline h/d shockproof), and put some in the engine. There's a noticeable difference in the engine. Cold starts are awesome, you can hear the difference. On cold start it immediately sounds like a warm engine, no slight valve train noise like i used to get…. The bi-tron is actually thinner than the engine oil so it hasn’t just thickened it up. I’m very impressed so far" (We were talking about how the product might solve the oil-starved R154 thrust washer issue so many supra owners face)

- gmacrae on SupraForums
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383055&page=2

“I just put Bi Tron in my Caravan today. When it starts is the morning the valve "clacks" a bit until the engine gets warm. I started it this morning and added Bitron as it idled. Holy S***... it stopped "clacking" almost 15 seconds after I put it in. I too thought I would test it on something other than my Supra. I am convinced that I will try it now on my car. ... I found that it seems to have a bit more pick up especially up the cut in North Van. It is a steep hill I drive daily. I am actually picking up another case of it tomorrow...I am a believer!!!!!” (He is currently using it in his 400+ HP MK3)

- canadianbacon on Supramania
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28631&page=2

"ZaZZn, i personally had to try the Bitron stuff cause it moved me and me being an engineering student. I just had to do some tests. I am running them now, but lets just say that our 200,000 miles Porsche 944 that was dying ran for over an hour without else and a Bitron additive. We turned off the car cause we got nervous about breaking the car inside the Aerodynamics lab and it would have created a mess. But this stuff made me skeptical and now seeing the science being it, I am amazed. All I know is that I'm sure as hell adding it to my Supra."

- Spaniard on SupraForums
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4619671#post4619671
“A customer came into my work the other day to get his oil changed. On his work order it had Add Bi-Tron.. of course I know what it is already (talked to tekdeus at Suprafest)... I changed his oil and it looked perfectly normal, oil was a good colour (I thought it was changed 2k ago)... then I hear him shout into the bay... "guess how many km ago I got my oil changed"... then it clicked that he had already been running bi-tron... he told me it has been 8,000km since his last oil change, I looked at the oil as it was pouring out of his drain plug.. looked almost new, same consistency as fresh oil and not all too dark. So he goes on to tell me that a friend of his ran out of oil half-way on his way to Vancouver (a 4 hour trip from here) and he added 1 bottle of bi-tron to his oil and drove his car for the rest of the trip (2 hours) without a problem... I've heard nothing but good things from anybody I have talked to about bi-tron.”

- fotosoup on Supramania
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28631
"I have used Bitron in my Supra for the last year or so...crankcase, tranny, and rear end. Its added insurance to me, and since I put it in my tranny the gear noise has definitely diminished when downshifting into 2nd & 1st."

- NewWestSupras on Supramania
“I put a bottle of the drivetrain formulation in my R154, without changing the oil or anything (it was/is whining in all gears), I didn't notice an immediate difference, but Brad told me that it takes a few hundred miles to see the full result...well, i have driven it over 1000 miles, and I have noticed a slight decrease in the whine, and a bit less grinding...No help with shifting though. So basically, it quieted it just enough to be noticeable... That's my .02. BTW: I checked the oil before I added Bitron, and the level was perfect.”

- johnathan1 on Supramania
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28631&page=2

"I thought that Bitron was yet another useless "snake oil" until I tried it.

I had a 1987 SAAB 900 which had a LOUD whine coming from the primary drive chain. (SAAB 900s have the engine mounted backwards on top of the transmission, with a large drive chain connecting the crankshaft to the transmission) My father-in-law gave me a bottle of the Bitron oil additive, which I added to the transmission. I did not change the transmission oil, or add any other additives. The whine from the chain was immediately improved, became much quieter over time, to the point where I forgot about it, and never returned.

I would not have used Bitron if it was not free, and have never used it since. However, it worked really well the one time that I did use it."

- Diesel_Canuck on MercedesShop
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=155939

 

[JMDigital]

I am looking into getting a 1995 Toyota 4Runner. 170k miles on it. If I do get it I may try it in there. (cant hurt it right?) Im about to re-build my BHG. Lets just say that BI-TRON works 100% like its advertised, I dont think I would put it in my supra.

 

[jdub]

Nice...more "testimonials" based on "feel". Show me the test data...based on industry standard tests. Video can (and does) lie. Anyone with a video editor can do that now and days.

Also, tell me what's in your "magic oil"...I don't want the formula, just the chemicals that makes it up. Companies readily make that information available...will you?

"Forget all the science and marketing crap Donny is yapping about." YGBSM...modern lubrication is based on science and it's the only method that will stand up. Face it...you're in this to make money. That's why you use "testimonials" to prove your point...I bet you would love it if the uninformed forgot all about science.

I am looking into getting a 1995 Toyota 4Runner. 170k miles on it. If I do get it I may try it in there. (cant hurt it right?) Im about to re-build my BHG. Lets just say that BI-TRON works 100% like its advertised, I dont think I would put it in my supra.

Well, yeah it can if it contains chloroparaffin like I "think" it does. Like I said above, this chemical breaks down to form hydrochloric acid...think about what that can do to your bearings over time. But so far, tekdeus hasn't told us what's in Bi-Tron and I doubt he will....true to form for every snake oil I've encountered.

 

[Mr.PFloyd]

whats up with skepticism lately? I bet all those people here who doubt this doubt that nature can cure sickness and such. Anyway, i love lucas oil personally as it cured low oil pressure problems on my Jetta. im not saying it felt better, im saying it acted better. Faster startups and whatnot. But personalyl i would never run any of these additives on a Turbo equipped car.