A/C recharge

[jetjock]

Hmmm. Interesting this thread would come up again now. Wish I hadn't wasted my time on the ungrateful but at least others can benefit from the info.

So it works fine for an hour? That's not much good is it? I understand you're against it but I'd change the condenser if I were you. First because you'll have a leak tight system. Second because the replacement condenser will likely be better than the original one. Parallel flow for example. It'll result in a better performing system.

Next would be repair of the stock condenser if possible. There are special brazes and solders made just for those jobs. You may have to remove it from the car.

Sealants. Most AC guys dislike them and I'm no exception. They work but not for large leaks. The other problem is once they're in there you're sort of screwed. They can raise hell with refrigerant recovery systems and even the AC system itself by plugging the expansion valve. Rare but it happens. If you try a sealant expect any shop that services the system later on to be unhappy. They might even refuse. That said see a couple of posts back for a sealant that has a reputation for working, at least on evaps and smaller leaks.

Free 134 huh? Lucky you. The stuff sure has gone up in price over the last few years. I still have lots of 12 around I bought cheap. Problem is I keep giving it away (you know who you are ).

 

[plaaya69]

Very good info in this thread.

 

[Turbo Denis]

Hmmm. Interesting this thread would come up again now. Wish I hadn't wasted my time on the ungrateful but at least others can benefit from the info.

So it works fine for an hour? That's not much good is it? I understand you're against it but I'd change the condenser if I were you. First because you'll have a leak tight system. Second because the replacement condenser will likely be better than the original one. Parallel flow for example. It'll result in a better performing system.

Next would be repair of the stock condenser if possible. There are special brazes and solders made just for those jobs. You may have to remove it from the car.

Sealants. Most AC guys dislike them and I'm no exception. They work but not for large leaks. The other problem is once they're in there you're sort of screwed. They can raise hell with refrigerant recovery systems and even the AC system itself by plugging the expansion valve. Rare but it happens. If you try a sealant expect any shop that services the system later on to be unhappy. They might even refuse. That said see a couple of posts back for a sealant that has a reputation for working, at least on evaps and smaller leaks.

Free 134 huh? Lucky you. The stuff sure has gone up in price over the last few years. I still have lots of 12 around I bought cheap. Problem is I keep giving it away (you know who you are ).

Thanks for the reply, i did read the entire thread and saw the links of the sealants that you recommended. What i was wondering is if its even worth trying on such a big leak - is there even a chance that it will help? Changing the condenser is kinda out of question - i dont really need the AC on that car that bad (i usually drive the supra when its hot outside). I'll look into repairing the condenser though.

As for the Supra, it had a leaky condenser too which i ordered brand new from toyota and replaced last summer, but never really got to recharge the system - its still on R12 and the stuff is extremly hard to find in Canada. Ive been looking around for a long time now with no luck. I really dont wanna convert to R134 - too many smart people suggest against it. I'd be willing to pay BIG bucks for it.. Only if i knew who to pay... Got any hookups in Toronto?

Edit: Also, someone suggested to use "Duracool" refrigerant. What are your thoughts on that stuff? Is it also a bad idea like the freeze-12 ?

 

[swaq]

I suppose this would be the thread to add my questions to.

What tools, equipment, and parts are needed to do a conversion to R-134a correctly? I'll also need to troubleshoot a leak in the process. Where would I buy the parts? Where would be a good place to find a write-up on doing the conversion (preferably one with step-by-step instructions and pictures)?

Thanks. This thread should go in the reference section or something.

 

[86andhalfWhiteGirl]

what do you mean you cant hook it up to the high side on a supra?? there is a high and a low side the high side is the port infront of your radiator, the low is directly on the compressor, and johnathan1 why would you want to stay with r-12? i dont even think you can get that anymore

Yes the R12 is available... the repair shop associated with the used car dealer i moonlight at has them... i have to see where they buy it from... in bulk i might add...lol:naughty:

 

[Turbo Denis]

I cant believe it - i was looking around desperately for some R12 and i came across this retired mechanic that sold me a full 30lbs cylinder of R12 as well as a professional machine (same as this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MURR...emQQcategoryZ63700QQihZ001QQitemZ110071325777 , but in "like new" shape), for a total of 400$. R12 is almost impossible to find in Canada - its been FULLY BANNED for years!

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

Sticky this thread

 

[BorHor]

Sticky this thread

:word8kn: good stuff in here.

 

[flubyux2]

im interested in getting my AC working again in my 89. someone told me that there was an open recall for the Expansion valve for the MK3. so toyota would go in and R&R the expansion valve as well as evacuate and recharge the AC system for no charge? anyone know about this?

my system sat open for about 2 years since the motor was out of the car during that time. i ordered a new Receiver/dryer and intend to put that on. however, im not sure which line it is (suction or discharge) but its the Upper most when youre looking downward at the lines as they pass thru the rad support. but this line seems to have a failed crimp where the hard line meets the soft. the soft line will spin on the end of the hardline as if the crimp collar is not attached. there seems to be a dirty/dry buildup around where the collar Should meet the hardline itself. its not greasy and grimey but its like a crust; really old refrigerant leak that "dried" up? i assume this line has failed so i wanted to replace this line, R&R the new receiver/dryer, then take the car to get a vaccum pulled on the system and i thought about getting the R134 cans with oil added already.

for the ac compressor, it seemed to have "compression" as i rotated the hub by hand. i replaced the o-rings on any lines i disconnected. i wouldnt need to do anything else if i wanted to run the R134a charge, except the appropriate lube, right?... which comes in certain cans. the other cans i noticed were "dry", or had the sealer or dye. i guess the refrigerant can be bought in any "flavor". i noticed there were different sized cans too. i should be able to buy about 1.7-2.0 lbs total of refrigerant to get the appropriate charge weight or is it more complicated than that?

 

[Jeff Lange]

This is a good thread. It's helped me quite a bit, as I'm in the process of adding A/C to my AE86. It never had A/C from the factory, and I'm putting in a used system. I'm going with R134a from the get go, I'm replacing every o-ring in the system with 134 o-rings, and replacing the receiver/dryer and condenser. I'm using a Toyota R134a conversion kit (fittings, stickers, and instructions), and I've got the ND8 R134a oil.

Basically I'm going to convert all the o-rings, replace the fittings and a few parts, get it all in the car, and then take it to a shop to get it leak tested and charged.

The only issue is that my lines, evaporator, compressor, etc has all been sitting in my garage for about a year (or close to it), so I'm sure some unwanted stuff has gotten in there in that time. Any suggestions on how to make sure they're clean when I'm installing them in the car?

Thanks for the help A/C dudes.

EDIT: Also, is it worth replacing the compressor now, or do you think I should be okay with the old one, I don't know if it works or not, never tested. A rebuilt compressor is over $300 USD, but if you guys think it should be done, I might as well do it now, to save from having to replace and recharge the system again I suppose. How often do compressors fail?

Thanks again.

 

[Nick M]

I suppose this would be the thread to add my questions to.

What tools, equipment, and parts are needed to do a conversion to R-134a correctly? I'll also need to troubleshoot a leak in the process. Where would I buy the parts? Where would be a good place to find a write-up on doing the conversion (preferably one with step-by-step instructions and pictures)?

Thanks. This thread should go in the reference section or something.

Well, you need a recovery machine, probably dual systems if possible. You could have R12 still in it. If the compressor does not engage when you turn it on, yes it is probably leaked out.

Spotting a leak is often not hard. Just look for the grime at the connections. But to be 100%, clean everything, and a yellowish orange dye is added to the blue PAG oil, turning it flourescent green. It illuminates in a black light, incase you miss the bright green glow on your own. There is more to it, but if you can't do that, I don't think you should try.

 

[swaq]

Well, you need a recovery machine, probably dual systems if possible. You could have R12 still in it. If the compressor does not engage when you turn it on, yes it is probably leaked out.

Spotting a leak is often not hard. Just look for the grime at the connections. But to be 100%, clean everything, and a yellowish orange dye is added to the blue PAG oil, turning it flourescent green. It illuminates in a black light, incase you miss the bright green glow on your own. There is more to it, but if you can't do that, I don't think you should try.

Thanks. I was thinking of having a shop recover the refrigerant then do the actual conversion on my own. I picked up the Haynes book on air conditioning.

I'm still not certain where I get the conversion parts. A Toyota dealership?

 

[Jeff Lange]

Thanks. I was thinking of having a shop recover the refrigerant then do the actual conversion on my own. I picked up the Haynes book on air conditioning.

I'm still not certain where I get the conversion parts. A Toyota dealership?

Yup, you can get them there, the conversion kit is 88840-something, I can't remember off the top of my head, haha. It depends how thorough a conversion you want as well, if you want to replace all the o-rings, etc. The Toyota conversion kit just comes with the fittings, you need to know what you want and order each piece.

 

[swaq]

Yup, you can get them there, the conversion kit is 88840-something, I can't remember off the top of my head, haha. It depends how thorough a conversion you want as well, if you want to replace all the o-rings, etc. The Toyota conversion kit just comes with the fittings, you need to know what you want and order each piece.

Thanks. Sounds expensive... Though I'd rather pay more now and do it right.

 

[Jeff Lange]

www.densoproducts.com is a pretty decent place to get some stuff like compressors, receiver/driers, expansion valves, etc from Denso. They also have condensers as well.

 

[jetjock]

Swaq: You can get a conversion kit just about anywhere. Just don't use it to cheap out doing the conversion, if that makes sense. The key is to start with a clean system then add the right oil and proper charge. By clean I mean flushed and pulled down with no leaks. The longer you pump on it the more water vapor will get removed. You can find generic instructions for conversion all over the internet. www.aircondition.com or www.autoacforum.com are good for information and the guys there can help you with anything you need to know. Or ask here. The Hanyes book was a smart move btw.

Jeff: You're going about it the right way. Anyone can make an AC system blow cold, getting to to blow cold trouble free for years is why you must sweat the details. The compressor is a crap shoot depending on how old it is and how many hours of operation are on it. The shaft seal may be leaking. The other issue is because it's been sitting around it may have internal corrosion because water vapor promotes the formation of acid in AC systems.

At minimum you ought to flush it. Drain the crap out and add new oil then turn the shaft several times while holding the compressor vertical. Drain and repeat. You could aso rebuilt it. The Denso 10PA is one of the easiest out there to rebuild. You can get rebuild kits form the vendors on either of the forums mentioned above. As for the other stuff just flush them out with alcohol or by some real AC flush.

Since you get a deal on Toyota parts I imagine you'd go with them if decide to replace it but if not stay away from cheap rebuilds and anything done by Four Seasons Corp, a big name in the biz who does most of the automotive store rebuilds. Or buy from an online AC vendor. I typically use Arizona Mobile Air (www.ackits.com) but being in Canada you may not want to do that. Again, the key is starting out with a clean and tight system. Don't skimp on that part. MVAC is like painting in that the quality of the prep work is what matters.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Thanks for the tips Jetjock.

Question; is it advisable to use something like this: http://store.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=01&Category_Code=AMA16836-000600

???

I recon it's a system designed for 134a, so would it work better than the factory system converted to 134a?

Either way I don't think I'd go with that kit, as the car is being restored and I'd like to use OEM parts or at least parts from the OEM provider (Denso).

 

[JMDigital]

Both my supra and my fathers supra had to be converted , it was done poorly by a mechanic that really does not do A/C sytems. We are both going to a respected a/c place here to get them to do it correctly. Its been over 90 here every day for the last few weeks and I get cool air while driving, but it gets warm when I stop. then cools down again when I drive.

A/C is nothing to fool with in my opinion..

 

[jetjock]

^ I agree. It's not hard to learn but AC work still takes specialized knowledge and equipment.

Jeff: It's sort of a toss up.Since you get deals I'd go with OEM or Denso parts. That way you'll know the quality is good. AZ Mobile Air is reputable though. I'm acquainted with the owner and he takes the business seriously. He's in AZ...he has to.

 

[Nick M]

The ones I have been using have a cannister with an air hose chuck. Pressurize the cannister, and let the air blow the flush through the system. Be sure to disconnect all the fittings and do it piece by piece. Sort of a back yard way, but that is all we have here.