A/C recharge
- Thread starter JesseH
- Start date
johnathan1 said:
All I have is 30 pounders and they go for about $450. I'm not crazy enough to pay for the little cans from an auto store. I can't legally sell it to you unless you're licensed but there's a way around that. If you sign a statement you're going to resell you can buy without being certified. It happens on ebay all the time. Where the heck is Downey anyway? If it's not far maybe I'll load up my gear and come over to fix you up
If I were you I'd just go here: http://tinyurl.com/nbvqy
Pay your 20 bux and take the open book test. In an hour you'll be able to buy all the R12 you'll ever want. Again, it's your Gum'mint at work
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damn JJ, that would be AWESOME if you could come down. Downey is located about 12 miles from Los Angeles, where are you located?
Eh, I see now it says "So Cali". Sorry, I'm a long way from there. I'll do what I can from here though if you decide to tackle it yourself.
damn, that sucks! lol So i can buy it on eBay? Also, how much does it take to fill the Supra's system?
Yeah sorry, even though I fly for free I couldn't drag all that gear aboard so I'd have to either drive or fly my own down and with the cost of fuel these days well, you don't wanna know
You can buy R 12 on ebay as long as you find a seller that will offer to let you sign a resell statement but I'd take the test if I were you. It's not hard and open book to boot. Open two windows (one for the exam and one for the study guide) and have at it. Then you can go into auto stores and deal with the same idiots I used to. Me: "Hi, how much for R12?" Him: "You need a license to buy it" Me: "Do I need a license to know the price?" Him: momentary confusion.
I forget the charge for the Supra. Around 2 pounds me thinks. It'll be in the TSRM and also on the sticker under your hood.
You can buy R 12 on ebay as long as you find a seller that will offer to let you sign a resell statement but I'd take the test if I were you. It's not hard and open book to boot. Open two windows (one for the exam and one for the study guide) and have at it. Then you can go into auto stores and deal with the same idiots I used to. Me: "Hi, how much for R12?" Him: "You need a license to buy it" Me: "Do I need a license to know the price?" Him: momentary confusion.
I forget the charge for the Supra. Around 2 pounds me thinks. It'll be in the TSRM and also on the sticker under your hood.
wait a minute, so i CAN buy it at an auto parts store? I asked them about it, and they said that I HAD to do the R-134 conversion, because R-12 is illegal or something...
edit: what is R-13? and which test do I take on the website you supplied above?
edit: what is R-13? and which test do I take on the website you supplied above?
Sigh....don't make me come down there just to slap you .
Of course you can buy it. There is plenty of CFC-12 around but some stores may only stock the 30 pound cylinders. You want the 12 or 14 ounce cans. But they won't sell you either without a 609 license so get it on ebay or convert to 134. Do NOT use a death kit to convert or you'll be sorry at some point. Although I said you shouldn't you could also use a blend like Freeze 12. You can also get it on ebay or Google it. No license required. No license required for 134 either.
R-12 was banned under the Montreal Protocol. Manufacture is illegal but sale and possession is not. There's tons and tons of virgin and recycled stuff left. In fact, the smuggling of R-12 from Mexico is a huge business, on a par with dope. It'll be around for a long time (R-12 that is. I suspect dope also). Anyone who tells you it's illegal needs to be smacked upside the head.
.Of course you can buy it. There is plenty of CFC-12 around but some stores may only stock the 30 pound cylinders. You want the 12 or 14 ounce cans. But they won't sell you either without a 609 license so get it on ebay or convert to 134. Do NOT use a death kit to convert or you'll be sorry at some point. Although I said you shouldn't you could also use a blend like Freeze 12. You can also get it on ebay or Google it. No license required. No license required for 134 either.
R-12 was banned under the Montreal Protocol. Manufacture is illegal but sale and possession is not. There's tons and tons of virgin and recycled stuff left. In fact, the smuggling of R-12 from Mexico is a huge business, on a par with dope. It'll be around for a long time (R-12 that is. I suspect dope also). Anyone who tells you it's illegal needs to be smacked upside the head.
In HVAC, It seemed there was always a guy at every HVAC shop I worked at that would always make a few bucks on the side doing auto A/C work. Most of them charged just a few bucks to refill as long as they did not have to much time invested in troubleshooting problems. Just pop into a HVAC shop about 4:30pm and ask for the service tech, Don't ask a secretary or even let her know why you want him LOL
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Slamming a charge in is quick and dirty Joel, no doubt about it. The problem is with the price of the stuff you don't want it to leak out again anytime soon. Maybe he should buy a 30 pounder
Johnathan: You take the 609 MVAC test. It's the only one you can take online. Forget R13, it's not suitable for MVAC use.
Johnathan: You take the 609 MVAC test. It's the only one you can take online. Forget R13, it's not suitable for MVAC use.
thanks guys, and please don't slap me! Slap that dumbass at Autozone! Would there be any ill effects with using Freeze 12? Do I just need to buy the refrigerant, and what kind of oil do I buy? How many 12 or 24 oz cans do i need? Wow, i really need help...lol
I agree, JJ, But the point I did not make clear was at least they should have the proper tools/freon/knowledge to help. And they may not rape him like a repair shop might trying to pin point a leak..
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Freeze 12 will work but here's what they don't tell you. Stay with me because this requires a bit of thought. Remember how I said the refrigerant must carry oil around the system in order to lube the compressor? Well, different refrigerants require different oils. Not all oils are miscible in all refrigerants. This is why you must change your R12 oil to one compatible with 134 when you convert.
Freeze 12 avoids that. They claim it to be a "drop in" replacement for R12. It is, but theres a catch. First the funny part: Freeze 12 is 80% 134. How can 134 circulate your old R 12 oil? Simple: the other 20% of Freeze 12 is a refrigerant (R142) that *is* miscible in R 12 oil. This is how you can get away with dropping in Freeze 12 without changing the oil. Neat huh?
Well yeah, until that 20% leaks out. And it will leak out first because it's a smaller molecule than R 134. It'll also leak out because Freeze 12 is a zeotropic mixture (look that up). When it does the oil stops going round and round and boom goes your compressor, even though you still have an 80% charge. In other words your low pressure switch won't protect the compressor like it does when 100% of the refrigerant is carrying the oil.
Now which would you rather depend on: 1) 100% R12 carrying the proper oil, 2) 100% R134 carrying it's own proper oil, 3) 20% of the new refrigerant charge to carrying the old R12 oil. And if you're going to use a product that's 80% 134 anyway why wouldn't you just change the oil and use 100% 134 in the first place?
So yeah, Freeze 12 is a quick and cheap way to get cold again. But as I said with MVAC it's pay now or pay later. As long as the system has no leaks (fat chance, all MVAC systems leak at some rate because of the many connections and flexible hoses used) Freeze 12 will work. But I promise you the day will come when that 20% R142 leaks out. When it does the compressor will lunch and send crap all through your system. Big money will be involved to fix your AC when that happens.
Freeze 12 avoids that. They claim it to be a "drop in" replacement for R12. It is, but theres a catch. First the funny part: Freeze 12 is 80% 134. How can 134 circulate your old R 12 oil? Simple: the other 20% of Freeze 12 is a refrigerant (R142) that *is* miscible in R 12 oil. This is how you can get away with dropping in Freeze 12 without changing the oil. Neat huh?
Well yeah, until that 20% leaks out. And it will leak out first because it's a smaller molecule than R 134. It'll also leak out because Freeze 12 is a zeotropic mixture (look that up). When it does the oil stops going round and round and boom goes your compressor, even though you still have an 80% charge. In other words your low pressure switch won't protect the compressor like it does when 100% of the refrigerant is carrying the oil.
Now which would you rather depend on: 1) 100% R12 carrying the proper oil, 2) 100% R134 carrying it's own proper oil, 3) 20% of the new refrigerant charge to carrying the old R12 oil. And if you're going to use a product that's 80% 134 anyway why wouldn't you just change the oil and use 100% 134 in the first place?
So yeah, Freeze 12 is a quick and cheap way to get cold again. But as I said with MVAC it's pay now or pay later. As long as the system has no leaks (fat chance, all MVAC systems leak at some rate because of the many connections and flexible hoses used) Freeze 12 will work. But I promise you the day will come when that 20% R142 leaks out. When it does the compressor will lunch and send crap all through your system. Big money will be involved to fix your AC when that happens.
No, can't use 100% 142. It's pressure/temp relationship is lousy for MVAC. It's used in F12 only to carry the oil. I was only giving you the scoop on why you should avoid it. Either stay with R12 or convert. I did some checking and it seems the Supra handles conversion to 134 very well so you'll have to decide what to do. The amount of work is the same other than changing the oil. The cost of 134 is less than 12 but you'll need some parts so it could come out a wash.
You know, you ought to first find out why the system doesn't work. It could be an electrical problem but not likely. Most home and commercial AC problems are electrcial while most MVAC ones related to the refrigerant system. Since you don't have a manifold gage set what you can do is jumper the low pressure switch for a moment and see if the compressor clutch pulls in. You can do this with the engine off. If it does pull in you're low on gas and can go from there. If it doesn't you have electrical problems. The A/C section of TSRM is pretty good as far as manuals go so start there.
You can also split this job up. If everything checks out take it to a shop and have them charge it without checking for any problems. Course, you'll learn squat that way. I'd at least buy a cheap manifold set and use this opportunity to learn about AC service.
I checked and my Supra's charge is 1.7 pounds. I don't think it changed over the years but I could be wrong. I haven't gotten into oils because that's a bit complicated but R12 uses mineral oil. You may not have to add some but I would. Check to see if the compressor clutch works first though and go from there.
You know, you ought to first find out why the system doesn't work. It could be an electrical problem but not likely. Most home and commercial AC problems are electrcial while most MVAC ones related to the refrigerant system. Since you don't have a manifold gage set what you can do is jumper the low pressure switch for a moment and see if the compressor clutch pulls in. You can do this with the engine off. If it does pull in you're low on gas and can go from there. If it doesn't you have electrical problems. The A/C section of TSRM is pretty good as far as manuals go so start there.
You can also split this job up. If everything checks out take it to a shop and have them charge it without checking for any problems. Course, you'll learn squat that way. I'd at least buy a cheap manifold set and use this opportunity to learn about AC service.
I checked and my Supra's charge is 1.7 pounds. I don't think it changed over the years but I could be wrong. I haven't gotten into oils because that's a bit complicated but R12 uses mineral oil. You may not have to add some but I would. Check to see if the compressor clutch works first though and go from there.
how do i jumper the low pressure switch? Is it in the TSRM? And how do I know if the clutch has pulled in?
JJ: I have enjoyed gaining knowledge from your posts and I have two questions for you:
1. What kind of jet are you a jock of and...
2. What is your opinion of this new stuff I saw at Autozeone that claims it is a metal/gasket sealer for the automotive air conditioning system?
It looks like you would put this in on an empty system and then charge it immediately with R-134.
1. What kind of jet are you a jock of and...
2. What is your opinion of this new stuff I saw at Autozeone that claims it is a metal/gasket sealer for the automotive air conditioning system?
It looks like you would put this in on an empty system and then charge it immediately with R-134.
CPT: I'm typed in several aircraft. I currently operate the Canadair Regional Jet for work and the Aero Vodochody L-39 seen in my avatar for fun. In addition I occasionally fly a Lear 35 and CitationJet for a former employer.
I'm not familiar with the Autozone stuff so I can't comment on it. The use of sealants and additives is a hotly debated subject among AC techs. Some swear by them while others swear at them. My opinion is that sealants are bad and you should never put anything but refrigerant, oil, and tracer dye into an MVAC system. One problem is sealants mess up recovery machines so most AC techs don't like them. They've also been known to clog up the tiny passages in orifice tubes and expansion valves which are at the heart of a MVAC system. Rare but it happens.
Sealants should only be used on leaking evaporators and then only when the car isn't worth fixing right. For example if someone can't afford the labor to replace a bad evap (usually a big job) or if the car is too old to put much money into. In that case a sealant can get the AC going again for cheap. However if you plan on keeping the car I suggest avoiding them.
All other types of leaks should be repaired correctly.
That said, there are a number of sealant products on the market that work. If you use one don't buy it from an auto store. Use a "professional" product. Cryoseal comes to mind: http://tinyurl.com/p2avo
Anyone with questions about MVAC work should ask for opinions on the two forums I linked to in an earlier post. Sadly, MVAC shops can be among the worst scammers in the automotive repair world so it's a good subject to learn something about. You needn't buy the gear and do the work yourself but at least the shops will be unable to BS you.
Johnathan: Look in your TSRM to locate the dual pressure switch. It's located on the fender near the turbo. One is for high pressure and one for low. Unplug the connector and check both switches for continuity. Both should have it ie; be closed.
I'm not familiar with the Autozone stuff so I can't comment on it. The use of sealants and additives is a hotly debated subject among AC techs. Some swear by them while others swear at them. My opinion is that sealants are bad and you should never put anything but refrigerant, oil, and tracer dye into an MVAC system. One problem is sealants mess up recovery machines so most AC techs don't like them. They've also been known to clog up the tiny passages in orifice tubes and expansion valves which are at the heart of a MVAC system. Rare but it happens.
Sealants should only be used on leaking evaporators and then only when the car isn't worth fixing right. For example if someone can't afford the labor to replace a bad evap (usually a big job) or if the car is too old to put much money into. In that case a sealant can get the AC going again for cheap. However if you plan on keeping the car I suggest avoiding them.
All other types of leaks should be repaired correctly.
That said, there are a number of sealant products on the market that work. If you use one don't buy it from an auto store. Use a "professional" product. Cryoseal comes to mind: http://tinyurl.com/p2avo
Anyone with questions about MVAC work should ask for opinions on the two forums I linked to in an earlier post. Sadly, MVAC shops can be among the worst scammers in the automotive repair world so it's a good subject to learn something about. You needn't buy the gear and do the work yourself but at least the shops will be unable to BS you.
Johnathan: Look in your TSRM to locate the dual pressure switch. It's located on the fender near the turbo. One is for high pressure and one for low. Unplug the connector and check both switches for continuity. Both should have it ie; be closed.
Jetjock, i have a question for you. My beater (89 sentra) is leaking from the condenser. The leak is pretty big - fully charged system leaks out completely in an hour or so. Otherwise the A/C works fine (blows ice cold when its charged). Its converted to the r134, and i can get it for free from work. I dont feel like spending 150$ on a new condenser - is it worth it trying the sealant on such a big leak?
Thanks
Thanks