7MGTE Starts, But Stalls Shortly After....Update July 17

[jetjock]

First off, put a filter on the engine. Running the AFM open like that with the cooling fan nearby can result in unstable idle.


"IDL - E2 .046 ohm-Closed 1ohm- .5mm Feeler Gauge 2k"

Nothing wrong with that.

"IDL - E2 1 ohm-.9mm Feeler Gauge 2k"

Should be infinity. I assume it goes to infinity if opened slightly more. If so leave it alone.

"VC - E2 5.79 Throttle Closed/Opened Gives Same Reading 20K"

That reading is, or should be, in kohms.

"VC-E2 supposed to give the same reading with the throttle opened and closed?"

Of course. It's either end of a potentiometer, same as a fixed resistor. Wiper position doesn't effect measurement.

I'd still be focusing on the AFM problem. It's far more important than any TPS issue. And again with ohms? The ECU deals with voltage.

You have GE injectors in the engine?

If the mixture seems rich or lean when in closed loop it's a simple matter to use the stock NB O2 sensor to verify and correct it. Absolutely zero need for a WB. In fact it's less accurate than a NB for this purpose.

If 51 doesn't come up with the throttle closed (but does comes up when it's cracked) the TCCS is in "idle mode". Vehicle speed must also be less than 11 mph but that's a given in this case.

I used 88c (190f) thermostats. A 195 will be fine. I do not advocate the use of lower thermostats and get a chuckle from those that do.

It's true I expect those I try and help to make at least a minimum of mental and physical effort in resolving their problems. If anyone wants to give me "attitude" about that, fine. On my shit list they go. In fact I ignore lots of posts where I know the answer, for lots of reasons. After all I'm not the one with the broken car and I don't earn a single kopeck doing this.

Lastly, I hate to say it but that meter sucks. Snap-On is a real scam at times...

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Ok, so I should leave the TPS now as it is good?

Yes, I mixed up the darn injectors even after I OHM'ed them. Had both of them laid out on rags after cleaned and picked up the wrong set. That could be a problem. I know I have to check Vf right?

Ok, I installed the 195 thermostat, so that is good.

I am waiting on a different AFM to test out. Two bad ones with brake cleaner and one with a hole. What did you say, "with ohms again?". Was I not supposed to check the TPS with ohms?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

The multimeter is not mine. We have a shop, regular mechanic shop, no high performance stuff, it belongs to a mechanic.

Should I get a different multimeter then?

Lastly, I know I should be testing the AFM at the ECU terminals to know the voltages it sends. Were you thinking I OHM'ed the AFM again by saying "again with OHMs?"

 

[jetjock]

That meter is basic. You can't use it to measure Ks because it doesn't have a frequency function. If you're going to deal with the AFM you need one that does. Or a scope.

Or just put the new AFM on, change injectors, and go from there. And put a filter on. The AFM needs a diameter or two upstream of the laminar flow screen for the screen to function correctly and having it ingest turbulent flow from the cooling fan just makes things worse.

Ohms: I was referring to the TPS but you can be forgiven since the book uses that method. It works OK but I prefer to use voltage when stuff is on the car and powered up. Resistance checks have their place but active signal tracing beats it any day of the week...

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Ok, I will try and get a filter on the Lexus tomorrow. It is close to the cooling fan, so I don't know my options so well. Will have to look.

Yes, I know that if air is forced into the AFM, it can cause the engine to stall.

I sold a New Greddy SP2 exhaust and the guy is supposed to be bring a known working AFM for me to test. It came off his 7M before he did his 1JZ swap.

Do you think that the GE injectors cause a problem with their high impedance? I know they flow less, so that is a problem right there.

Could have a wrong size gap plug cause this too? I was reading about something called "Spark Confirmation.". I have been Googling this stuff a lot lately to try and see if I can find the problem and by using your help to.

 

[jetjock]

Never hurts to have clean and gapped plugs, although the engine will run fine with some plug deterioration.

Not only do the GE injectors flow less but if you left the resistor pack installed current to them will be limited. After all, that's the pack's purpose when using low impedance squirters.

Spark Confirmation, at least as it applies to this engine, is the signal your igniter sends back to the ECU each time a coil pack fires. The signal is called IGf. If the ECU doesn't receive IGf pulses fuel injection is halted and code 14 will be set in memory. The reason is to prevent possible cylinder hydrolock and catalyst overheat. If the engine dumps raw HC into the exhaust stream there's a risk of melting the cat's substrate. Your problem doesn't involve IGf.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Never hurts to have clean and gapped plugs, although the engine will run fine with some plug deterioration.

Not only do the GE injectors flow less but if you left the resistor pack installed current to them will be limited. After all, that's the pack's purpose when using low impedance squirters.

Spark Confirmation, at least as it applies to this engine, is the signal your igniter sends back to the ECU each time a coil pack fires. The signal is called IGf. If the ECU doesn't receive IGf pulses fuel injection is halted and code 14 will be set in memory. The reason is to prevent possible cylinder hydrolock and catalyst overheat. If the engine dumps raw HC into the exhaust stream there's a risk of melting the cat's substrate. Your problem doesn't involve IGf.

"IDL - E2 1 ohm-.9mm Feeler Gauge 2k"

Should be infinity. I assume it goes to infinity if opened slightly more. If so leave it alone.

I know the sign for infinity is a sideways eight. How does the multimeter show that, by showing a 1?

I will pull the plugs and check the gap after replacing the injectors with GTE ones today. I don't have a Code 14 so that is good. Will get back to you guys tonight.

 

[jetjock]

Set the meter on any ohms range without the leads touching each other. Whatever the meter displays represents infinite resistance between the leads.

You didn't answer about the resistor pack but it must be installed to use low impedance injectors. Without the pack they'll be toast.

I'm curious as to how much current the fuel pump is drawing. Do you know how to check that?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

I still have the resistor pack installed on the car. I mistaked and picked the GE injectors when I was OHMing them since I had both sets laid out. Dumb mistake. I am not sure to see how much the fuel pump is drawing but I know it has to do with the diagnostic block, right?

The meter displays "1" when the leads are apart. That means when I said "1" ohm was present, on the IDL-E2 test with the .9mm gauge, it was really infinity.

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

I am going to try and do some stuff on the car today. Really busy at work right now.

 

[jetjock]

Well, that means your IDL contact is fine. No surprise since the code 51 behavior you posted earlier confimed that.

Fuel pump draw: Set the meter to measure DC current on the 10 amp scale and move the red lead to the socket marked "10" or "A". Do not use the socket marked "ma". Turn the key on and put the meter leads across the B+ and FP terminals same as you would a jumper. The meter will display pump current.

Remember when finished to move the red lead back to the voltage socket. Otherwise when you later attempt to measure voltage you'll blow its internal fuse.

Not that I think your problem is TPS or fuel pump related...

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Why should I be checking it then? I don't have a problem doing it, is it because the fuel pump is not getting enough voltage at idle or signal at idle? Maybe a fuel pump on the way out?

No time today, work was too busy to work on the Supra.

Tomorrow I am going to change to the GTE injectors, is there a way to test them to see if they are good. I know all are within spec, 3.4-3.5, but I am talking about if any are stuck open or closed? I did clean the pintle area with gas and dried them with compressed air, both top and bottom holes.

I have a coolant leak now by the thermostat housing. It is on the piece that connects to the upper radiator hose. I saw there was a notch on one side of the cap(removed it to change the rubber O-ring since I thought that was bad) that you have to remove to change the thermostat and it is leaking from that same area. I have another cap that is perfectly round and will change it out tomorrow. I hope that solves it.

So Tomorrow

-Change Out The GE To GTE Injectors ( My Dumb Mistake )
-Change Thermostat Housing Cap

-When The Thermostat Housing Cap Is Off, I Will Pull The Top Cover Just To Make Sure The Timing Is Right. Would Not Be Bad To Check Since It Will Be Right There To Do, Right?


**Checking Timing With Belt On...**

-Turn Piston 1 To TDC
-Verify By Looking At The Cam Lobe Through The Oil Hole, Should Be Pointing Up.
*Mine Is Always Slanted Should It Be Straight Up?

-Make Sure All Cam Marks Line Up With The Back Plate And 0 Degree On The Lower Timing Cover
*Cams Are Aligned On The Camshaft With The Pin In The Middle Hole On The Cam Gears.

-Pull CPS Cover And Check To Make Sure The Notches Are Fully Aligned Right Under Each Other.

Comment And Critize If I Am Doing Anything Wrong. Advice Will Be Taken. Thanks.

 

[Nick M]

Don't touch the injectors until you change the AFM dude.

Nope. He won't hurt the ECU, but he is way lean if this is the case. You start with what you know is wrong, and this (injectors) is wrong. Hopefully you have the correct ones in there now so we can proceed further.

What are the chanced that my wiring harness from Toyota is defective....brand new.

Not good ,but incorrect installation or wrong application could be a problem.

It is tomorow. Did you find a known good airflow meter? Did you get the correct injectors in the engine?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Thanks for the reply. I gave my VIN down to dealer for the harness. It is a grey plug and that is what is right for my car. One thing is that I could not find on plug for the ECU area inthr harness. The plugs for the ECU and dash are in but there was one coming from the harness that I could not find to plug into the car. I will get a picture of that.

I did not get to do anything on the Supra. Still the GE injectors are in there. I have a GTE set that OHM'ed between 3.4-3.5. We have a shop here and I was planning to change the injectors but it was really busy for a Sunday and I had a lot of paperwork to prepare for te accountant. Also with a test tomorrow, Tuesday, I will not be able to do anything today.

My best chance to do anything is tomorrow afternoon after my test and if weather permits. I am trying my best, dumb Summer.

If anyone ever ran out of gas before, the way the car stumbles, misses and then stalls, that is how my car acts after is starts and then stalls.

My theory would be the less fuel the GE injectors are spraying might be causing that? What do you guys think? Hope I get to change them out tomorrow.

 

[whitemike]

I don't know man, I just feel that you're asking for help, we're giving it, and then you're ignoring it and going some opposite direction.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Update

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Major Update

I changed out my GE injectors that were wrong and it did not help the idle issue. So, whats next. I revved the engine and all are firing and it is extremely smooth.

I was by the front of the car and revved the engine a little and blocked the AFM housing with my hand and it idled. So I then managed to take a cardboard and fit is around the AFM housing to block the turbulence coming from the fan and the car started and idled perfectly. Revved and came back down without stalling. Wow. Thanks Jetjock.

Here is the new problem. The car sits at idle and it is running fine, give it a rev, and it is a puff of smoke coming from the exhaust. I don't have the PCV hooked up, I will do that tomorrow. It looks like the valve seals are bad but I just rebuilt the head and even used head paste on each valve seal so they won't float up. They were genuine Toyota valve seals.

When you hold the engine at anything above 1,500 RPM, it will show a trace of blue smoke out of the exhaust, a very slight trail. When it idles, then it is a puff.

I don't believe the turbo seals are bad since the turbo has no miles on it. It was bolted up to two 7M's, both mine, and this is the second one, with zero miles. It only does this when the engine is has warmed up and I assume it is because the oil has become thinner. I am running 10W-30 on a new rebuild with fresh rings and bearings. Block was deglazed as well these were the rings specs when measured:

Ring 1: 12 thou
Ring 2: 16 thou
Oil Ring: 13 thou

They are within specs, so I don't know besides my turbo or PCV system. If this helps, after the engine gets to operating temperature, there is a constant flow of steem/vapor coming out of the valve covers PCV ports and slightly if you open the oil cap. Whats the best way to check the turbo? I saw some oil in the intercooler pipe from the turbo. Thanks, Andy.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Nobody?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

No suggestions?

 

[Nick M]

I would want to see the smoke. Because a bone stock car in good running condition will put out a little smoke if you snap the throttle open. It is a byproduct.

 

[jetjock]

You're welcome. Nothing beats a clean street:

http://tinyurl.com/29jntfj

Mr Von Karman would be pleased...