6 pot willwoods won't clear 19"s

[supramad77]

Ok so i mounted the first side today with the 6 pot monsters. All was going well until i mounted the wheel. It won't clear the caliper. The way i see it is i have two options. I get wheel spacers to push me out at least 5mm or i start grinding on the lip of the caliper. It seems worse on the ends of the caliper, i think the middle would only need a few mm shaved off. The 14" rotors have loads of space around the wheel. Must be the style of the wheel as the spokes slant inward.

Open to suggestions guys. I don't want to weaken the calipers by grinding them if that is what will happen. Not to keen on spacers as the wheels fit nice as they are..

Here are the pics, me a and my mate recon that a 5/7 mm spacer should be enough to clear the caliper. Don't really want to be grinding anything.

Quite clear where the problem is as the new paint is already scraped off.

 

[BorHor]

Its not that it won't clear a 19" rim. It is that the face of your rim is too shallow to clear the caliper.

 

[supramad77]

Its not that it won't clear a 19" rim. It is that the face of your rim is too shallow to clear the caliper.

Ok maybe i worded it slightly wrong, just looking for ideas how to overcome the problem.

 

[BorHor]

Spacers or new wheels with better clearance.

 

[supramad77]

Spacers or new wheels with better clearance.

Hmm don't want new wheels really, these cost £1200. Going to fit some washers in the morning to see how much i need to clear the caliper.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Get spacers for now to clear them, when you have the money, sell the wheels and buy some that have the correct offset to clear your brakes. If you can get the same wheels in a different offset, good, if not, you'll have to compromise on the wheels. Don't start grinding calipers, IMO.

Jeff

 

[LilMissMkIII]

definitely get spacers mate, or I'll gladly swap my stock brakes for your Willwoods

 

[supramad77]

Get spacers for now to clear them, when you have the money, sell the wheels and buy some that have the correct offset to clear your brakes. If you can get the same wheels in a different offset, good, if not, you'll have to compromise on the wheels. Don't start grinding calipers, IMO.

Jeff

Rather not sell them but it is an option I guess. I would need more negative offset i guess. They are +35 at the moment.

 

[reklund5]

www.wheeladapter.com

I had a set custom made with the hub centering ring machined in for my MKIII to clear my AZP Big Brake kit. Use a set of ARP extended wheel studs for a Lexus IS300 and you'll have the setup you need to SAFELY move the wheels out a bit.

They'll make the adapter in any thickness you want- and they're QUICK. I ordered on Tuesday, had 'em on Friday shipped to my door.

Ryan

 

[arz]

Rather not sell them but it is an option I guess. I would need more negative offset i guess. They are +35 at the moment.

Yes, I agree with everyone else. DONT grind the caliper. Those are old GN calipers, they were just regular cast calipers, that stiffening rib is VERY functional. All the newer calipers are forged, or the billet is forged then machined, either way those older calipers are not near as strong and subject to bridge flexing so definitely DO NOT grind that rib off. Im not knocking that caliper as it will still be 100% better than the stock brakes, but its just not as good as Wilwood's current calipers.

As for "OFFSET". Everyone keeps referring to Offset, and that really has nothing to do with it. The term you guys are looking for is "Caliper Clearance"!!!

Since all newer car manufacturers hang the caliper outboard of the wheel mounting surface all newer cars require more caliper clearance than the the older ones. If you look closely the factory MKIII caliper required almost NO caliper clearance, yet look at the back side of a factory sawblade wheel and you will see there is a TON of caliper clearance. WHY, Im not sure, maybe they did something different on the racing circuit, maybe they anticipated a change later in the model year and nobody but old people bought the car and no one complained and they left well enough alone.

I have had another customer in Germany that had these really cool old school 17's that had 43mm back spacing but had ZERO caliper clearance and wouldn't fit without 35mm of spacers. Needless to say he just got new wheels. Im sure you can find a photo of these wheels but they were bronze on a bronze 2 tone car (I think) and had an awesome lip on them, bummer they didn't have any clearance for bigger brakes, because they looked VERY COOL.

Remember its not offset, its caliper clearance, and the only way you are going to find that out is to make a caliper template and fit that template to the wheels in person to make sure.

Notice the video in this post.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64637

Then read this post thoroughly to figure out how to make your own.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57089

www.wheeladapter.com

I had a set custom made with the hub centering ring machined in for my MKIII to clear my AZP Big Brake kit. Use a set of ARP extended wheel studs for a Lexus IS300 and you'll have the setup you need to SAFELY move the wheels out a bit.

They'll make the adapter in any thickness you want- and they're QUICK. I ordered on Tuesday, had 'em on Friday shipped to my door.

Ryan

Also excellent, I will keep that in mind.

 

[supramad77]

Yes, I agree with everyone else. DONT grind the caliper. Those are old GN calipers, they were just regular cast calipers, that stiffening rib is VERY functional. All the newer calipers are forged, or the billet is forged then machined, either way those older calipers are not near as strong and subject to bridge flexing so definitely DO NOT grind that rib off. Im not knocking that caliper as it will still be 100% better than the stock brakes, but its just not as good as Wilwood's current calipers.

As for "OFFSET". Everyone keeps referring to Offset, and that really has nothing to do with it. The term you guys are looking for is "Caliper Clearance"!!!

Since all newer car manufacturers hang the caliper outboard of the wheel mounting surface all newer cars require more caliper clearance than the the older ones. If you look closely the factory MKIII caliper required almost NO caliper clearance, yet look at the back side of a factory sawblade wheel and you will see there is a TON of caliper clearance. WHY, Im not sure, maybe they did something different on the racing circuit, maybe they anticipated a change later in the model year and nobody but old people bought the car and no one complained and they left well enough alone.

I have had another customer in Germany that had these really cool old school 17's that had 43mm back spacing but had ZERO caliper clearance and wouldn't fit without 35mm of spacers. Needless to say he just got new wheels. Im sure you can find a photo of these wheels but they were bronze on a bronze 2 tone car (I think) and had an awesome lip on them, bummer they didn't have any clearance for bigger brakes, because they looked VERY COOL.

Remember its not offset, its caliper clearance, and the only way you are going to find that out is to make a caliper template and fit that template to the wheels in person to make sure.

Notice the video in this post.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64637

Then read this post thoroughly to figure out how to make your own.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57089



Also excellent, I will keep that in mind.

Thanks for the reply, would your calipers be the same dimentions as these ones?
I have played about with some washers today and i need 10mm to clear the caliper min. I think my wheel is bent as it is very close on two spokes about 2mm clear and the the others are nearer 5mm clear. Not sure if that is enough clearance or wether i8 should go for 15mm adaptors. Going to be really close on my fender running 8.5 wide with 35 offset.

Pics fitted
Best clearrance

worst clearance

fitted pic with the caliper on the right side, got them wrong first time, lol

wheel flush

 

[arz]

Washers are a very poor way to confirm that your wheel is true. Were you able to check this trueness before the brake install with the wheels installed properly?

Mine are flush front and rear, I think that looks great, as long as it doesn't touch the fenders too bad.

 

[supramad77]

Washers are a very poor way to confirm that your wheel is true. Were you able to check this trueness before the brake install with the wheels installed properly?

Mine are flush front and rear, I think that looks great, as long as it doesn't touch the fenders too bad.

Well no i have no idea if the wheel is really bent or the washers are out. Did not check before hand as i had not even considered that my 19's would not fit.

So yours may have cleared if they are flush. Shame, i wanted your kit for so long but i just could not afford the $2600 or there abouts with postage. I paid $1350 or so for this kit delivered. With a good dollar rate that's just over £700 to me.

Still i want to do the rear at some time as well so i will be asking you.
I am guessing i would not have as much trouble as they are 4 pot.
Pat

 

[arz]

4 pots or 6 pots, the rear calipers are still HUGE, exact same body as the front 4 pots, just a different bore diameter. The rears do require less caliper clearance, about .5 inches less than my fronts.

Hope to hear from you in the future.

Why don't you remove the caliper and remove the outboard pad and reinstall the wheels with no washers. Install the washers on the caliper to space the caliper inboard and see if you still get that variance you witness in the wheel spokes.

Make sure to clean your hub surface as shown in my install instructions.

 

[supramad77]

4 pots or 6 pots, the rear calipers are still HUGE, exact same body as the front 4 pots, just a different bore diameter. The rears do require less caliper clearance, about .5 inches less than my fronts.

Hope to hear from you in the future.

Why don't you remove the caliper and remove the outboard pad and reinstall the wheels with no washers. Install the washers on the caliper to space the caliper inboard and see if you still get that variance you witness in the wheel spokes.

Make sure to clean your hub surface as shown in my install instructions.

Yea could try that. My rear wheels are wider. They are 10"s but the offset is worse from the caliper point of view at +38. Not sure how i would fair with that. Can't really bring the rears out any further.
I see you have a set for sale at $995 but they have no parking brake. How do you park on hills. I have an auto i guess it won't move in park?

 

[arz]

I sell a Line lock, this is only for temporary use, though. That kit has the worst caliper clearance, at about 32mm to 35mm. If you drive your car on the street and have to pass inspection then you wont be able to use the ones without a parking brake.

 

[2jzmk3]

i have 19in on mine with the wilwoods, and they fit fine. but i measured before i got the wheels... spacer or new wheels is your only option.

 

[supramad77]

i have 19in on mine with the wilwoods, and they fit fine. but i measured before i got the wheels... spacer or new wheels is your only option.

Just out of interest, what is your offset?
I tried one of my rear wheels on the front to see if it would clear. I have 19/10 in the rear with +38 offset and it has the same problem.

With 10mm of spacer i have 3mm clearance. Is that enough for expansion?
The next spacer is a 15mm and is going to be real close for my arches.

 

[arz]

Check out that wheeladapters site, that dude will probably make any thickness you want or need.

I have had customers with less than 2mm, the parts would never expand that much, you are probably more intereseted in wheel flex, than anything else.

 

[supramad77]

Check out that wheeladapters site, that dude will probably make any thickness you want or need.

I have had customers with less than 2mm, the parts would never expand that much, you are probably more intereseted in wheel flex, than anything else.

That's what i wanted to here. I have a link to a UK company that make 10mm spacers with the longer studs for £38 plus postage or 15mm For £70 plus. The 10mm would suit me better if 3mm is enough clearance. Found a company selling the same rims i have but as yet he has not said if they are available in different offsets.