Will timing affect horse power?

[jdub]

"Ignition timing" is defined as:
Initial Ignition Timing + Basic Ignition Advance Angle + Corrective Ignition Advance/Retard Angle

Initial Ignition Timing = Setting valve timing & set CPS to 10 deg BTDC

Basic Ignition Timing = A table in memory the ECU selects from based on:
- Intake Air Volume (Ks)
- Engine Speed (Ne)
- Throttle Position (IDL)
- Knock Signal

Corrective Ignition Advance/Retard Angle = Warm-up, Over temp, AFR Feedback, Idle, and Knock.

There's more to it

 

[IJ.]

So it's additive

 

[jdub]

Yes it is...or a retard in the case of corrective values (especially over temp or knock). The basic table is for advance.

 

[suprafanatic]

wow you guys are going right over my head..lol

Can someone tell me step by step what i need to do/check first? I know that the 2 notches inside the CPS cover are not lined up, they are alittle off. John from MDC was trying to get that lined up but he couldnt.

 

[IJ.]

First things first

pull #1 plug grab a wooden chopstick and slide it in the plug hole so it's on top of the piston.

Turn the motor by hand until it stops rising and look at the timing mark and come tell us where it's pointing.

 

[suprafanatic]

ok, well unfortunitly my situation right now doesnt allow me to work on my car. I'll have to wait till tomorow evening or thursday before i can do some work on it.

But when i can i'll do the chopstick thing first.. what should i do after that? or what am i looking for?

 

[IJ.]

Do the stick test then we'll move onto the next step..... you can't jump ahead.

 

[suprafanatic]

ok, just wondering if you could give me the run down cause when i go to work on it i wont be near a computer... if not i'll let you know as soon as i get around to the chopstick trick.lol

 

[IJ.]

Everything will be based on the stick test.

This all follows a logical progression ie: 1>2>3>4 and so on.

If 1 isn't correct nothing else will be.

 

[easternguy2005]

I timed mine to spec and made a mark. Then took it out again at different timing settings to make sure it was right and the 10 spot was the best pick up and go.

 

[Who]

Everything will be based on the stick test.

This all follows a logical progression ie: 1>2>3>4 and so on.

If 1 isn't correct nothing else will be.

Subscribed to thread and taking notes. I hope the OP does his homework.

 

[suprafanatic]

are you having issues with timing to?

 

[Who]

^ No problems just browsing and educating myself. Setting the timing step by step in plain English will be invaluable.

 

[7MGTEsup]

I'm intrested in this to, I'm trying to work out how you can adjust the mechanical timing with stock cam gears (unless you remove the pin and use a dti and treat them like an adjustable cam gear?)

 

[grimreaper]

Ij knows more on this,

Just in case anyone is interested in how the 3 holes actually work/are meant to work.....

you line up left/left to move the cam that direction by a degree or so and right/right to move it that way.

centre/centre is straight up

The idea here is for small adjustments to allow for resurfacing/belt stretch.

You DON'T use centre/left or right. -IJ

He is speaking of the 3 holes on the oem cam gears where the dowel pin goes.

 

[rumptis]

I was one of the people that helped him put this engine. Here are few things I know about this.

1. The Cam gears were set correctly as we checked these a few times once we realized we could not get the timing right.

2. Setting it at 7 BDC was as close as we could get. If we moved the CPS one tooth further we could not get the timing below 20 BDC if I remember right.

3. At the time it was set the car was throwing multiple codes (we didn't have access to anything at the time to see what these codes were), finding out later that one of which had to do with the TPS which I know can mess with the timing as I had a bad TPS once and was never able to get a good timing reading until that was fixed. I don't know if those have been taken care or not.

Personally I have no idea how much was taken of the head or what MHG was used.

I hope this helps some.

P.S. Nathan I will be in Westport this weekend dropping my new engine in. If you want some help with yours bring it down.

 

[suprafanatic]

Ok, heres the news. this weekend i went to jeffs house to work on my car. we checked the timing and it was at 3-4* i had no idea it was that low. So when i dyno'd my car i made the 370hp with my timing that far off. We finaly got the timing fixed, we set it at 11* I have to say the car pulls so so so much harder than it did before. So that should solve the problem as to why my dyno numbers where lower than they should have been. I really want to dyno it agian now and see where im at. I know for sure that im well into the 400s now judging by how it pulled the day we dyno'd and how it drives now. Clear night and day difference.

 

[jdub]

Would you like to share what you guys did to correct the timing?

 

[Jeff Lange]

Almost never should you have to use the amount of adjustment they give you from the factory. Correct timing of the CPS should almost be right in the middle of the adjustment range, provided nothing else is messed up. If something else is messed up, you should fix that first. If you've taken too much off of the head and/or block, get a set of adjustable timing gears and set the cam timing back to proper first.

In any case, I hope everything worked out for you.

Jeff

 

[FullNelson]

So uh, what was the solution? ::shrug::