wideband

[mkiii88supra]

It would not be needed per say in that case, but you would be fine with the AEM, seeing as you will not be tuning it yourself.

now just wondering why would it not be needed? because im not doing the tuning myself? so it is really even worth my money to get the AEM i mean i know it will give me better readings and all but i could spend that motor towards a turbo.

 

[jimi87-t]

It would be "needed" just like a temp, oil psi, boost gauge, ect. To keep an eye on what is going on. Just because you have it tuned, doesn't mean the motor will run perfect from there on out.

Just the same way as you wouldn't do an oil change and then not check the dip stick for the next 3000 miles. Things can go wrong.

You are now entering into the world of tuning and running an upgraded tuned EMS, it is not like running a stock set up. You need to know what is going on. Gauges are not there to look cool.

 

[mkiii88supra]

You are now entering into the world of tuning and running an upgraded tuned EMS, it is not like running a stock set up. You need to know what is going on. Gauges are not there to look cool.[/QUOTE]

i know i have a whole set of Autometer Cobalt gauges including oil press, water temp, boost, fuel press, and an a/f:icon_conf i just meant if i dont really need the wideband for tuning purposes couldnt i just use a regular A/F gauge or should i just get the wideband becuase of its accuracy?

 

[jimi87-t]

Like we have said before, the AF gauge that reads your stock o2 sensor is useless for watching AFR. Under power, the stock o2 is not even used by the ECU. so whats the point of seeing what it is doing?

Under power is when you will start melting your pistons if you are lean, you want to chance it? Thats up to you.

 

[mkiii88supra]

alright just making sure. so now if i decide to get the 6into1 it will be just a reading. now if down the road i decide i want to try fooling around tuning it myself i would have to get a different wideband with datalogging correct?

 

[jimi87-t]

You would have to buy some sort of a data logger. That is why it is a good practice to buy for "future", saves you money in the long run.

 

[mkiii88supra]

how easy is it to tune yourself if i got a wideband with the data logging capabilities and so on. i mean i only plan to add another turbo down the road so that would mean i would only have to dyno tune 2 times which wouldnt be horrible. but if its not hard for me to do it myself then why not.

 

[jimi87-t]

You need to do a lot of research on what is going on with engine management, way to much info there for one thread to cover. Also talk with the guys at your shop that will be tuning it for you, let them know you want to learn, I'm sure if they are not asses, they will walk you through what they are doing and give you pointers on your set up.

 

[mkiii88supra]

yeah i dont know if i really want to tune my car or not just maybe look into it so i guess ill just see what they do when they tune. so im pretty sure im going to get the AEM 6in1. now when they tune the car will they tune off of the wideband reading or something else? ive never had a car dynoed before so im just curious.

 

[jimi87-t]

They will use their own equipment, But they will make the changes to the map in your piggy back.

 

[mkiii88supra]

so they will mess with my AFC and all until it reads correct according to their equipment?

 

[jimi87-t]

Yep

 

[yannis-supras]

now just wondering why would it not be needed? because im not doing the tuning myself? so it is really even worth my money to get the AEM i mean i know it will give me better readings and all but i could spend that motor towards a turbo.

A WB would be handy for the "home" tuner, somebody that knows his stuff well enough to mess up with his car's fueling etc on his own or he knows people that can tune his car but don't have the gear. Since you're having your car tuned in a shop that have the right equipment I don't think that the WB would be of any help to you at this point or any NB gauge. If I were you I'd swap that a/f gauge you have with an EGT gauge, even for novice people that are not able to tune their own cars like me and you it provides solid information. You know that when your egt shows over 850/900 C that something is maybe wrong and that you may run lean. It's as straight forward as seeing your oil pressure dropping to 2psi while at 5k rpm.

 

[mkiii88supra]

yeah i see what your saying. i think ill just hook up the a/f that i have just for a base because if something is really wrong the gauge will peg one way or the other. but ill look into an egt also. the only wideband i was considering now was the AEM 6in1 because all it is, is basically a very accurate a/f gauge but idk if i want to spend the money.

 

[PorterzSupra]

So are you guys saying that when using a stock 02 and when using a air/fuel meter guage that what it shows you is wrong? Or does wideband just detect the leaner and richer sides the guage does not show? So your stock 02 when it reads rich for example its just liing and it could really be lean?? if it was that inaccurate why would they make guages for them and rely on them to run the car with the stock ECU? It dont really make sence, or are they off by like a small %? can someone clear this up?

 

[Red Dragon]

A wide band is a LINEAR 02 reading and display of (hopefully:icon_bigg )corresponding a/f ratio(~9.0-18.0, and all points in between), so you find out exactly what is going on. Think of the stock 02 like a computer , which only knows 0 and 1. Thats what it does, if it senses a lot of 02 it sends a 1, if it doens't sense much it sends a 0 (not really, it sends different voltages, but the analogy applies). But becuase you don't know HOW rich or lean, it doens't help you with tuning. It will say "lean" if somewhat above stoich or if you at 22.0 and melting your engine, you don't know.

If you mess with your air and fuel with mods, then you will likely want to know what is going on unless someone who knows exactly what they are doing has tuned your car for you and you don't mess with it. But then again its always good to know when circumstances change. again, the stock 02 is useless for this, its not there to be a tuning tool.... just for emissions

I think its unfortunate that the stock is referred to as a "narrow band" and the WB as a "wideband," when in fact they are two totally different animals, and are not interchangable nor comparable, so the similiar names are misleading....

 

[mkiii88supra]

Red Dragon: do you feel that even though im not going to tune my car myself and i wont touch the settings that the place tunes the car with that i should get a wideband gauge at least for more efficient monitoring?

 

[PorterzSupra]

so say your stock 02 reads "rich" or "stoch" does that mean your engine is runnign within safe mixture levels even thought it might not be tuned exactly to optimal performance?

 

[Red Dragon]

Red Dragon: do you feel that even though im not going to tune my car myself and i wont touch the settings that the place tunes the car with that i should get a wideband gauge at least for more efficient monitoring?

I don't know if I would call it "efficient" monitoring, just monitoring period.

If you dont' want to buy a WB, but you will be doing fuel mods, rather than the a/f meter you have, I think you would be better off trying to find someone selling what was called a montigny (after Jeff Montigny, guy who made them) Vf meter, which basically showed you the voltage display of the TCSS system, which trimed fuel based on calculated air/fuel ratios. Its just 5 LEDs that show the corresponding voltage output of the system. Dont' hear people talking about them, I suspect there are a few who have been around back in the 90's that know what I'm talking about. Its a simple device that will show you if the car is being fuel trimmed for a rich or a lean condition in a given load condition. I have one, and its nice to see what the computer is doing to make sure it isn't doing something like always trying to correct for a lean condition, which would indicate you ARE running lean and somethin needs to be looked at and viceversa. It isn't a substitute for a WB, but its a decent indicator of what your ecu is doing to correct for optimal fuel trim. Again, it would just tell me its trying to correct for a rich or lean condition, not HOW rich or lean I am or if I am in danger of toasting my engine.

But in combination with an EGT gauge, the Montigny Vf (or make your own if so inclined) is a good combo if you don't want to splurge on a WB. But really, if you are going to pay enough money to modify the car to a point where it requires a professional tuner, whats another $300 that could protect that investment???

Everyone else please chime in, I'm no expert and will be the first to admit.

 

[mkiii88supra]

well i dont mind buying a wideband just trying to figure out if its really needed and what type to get. since im not tuning im thinking if i buy one it will be the UEGO 6in1. any advice on the best wideband?