PorterzSupra said:
NO, and again the O2 is only there for cruising emissions, the signal is ignored as has been stated in the thread a few times when running WOT, decel, etc.. you can't use the stock O2 for JACK!
Red Dragon said:
wideband
- Thread starter mkiii88supra
- Start date
NO, and again the O2 is only there for cruising emissions, the signal is ignored as has been stated in the thread a few times when running WOT, decel, etc.. you can't use the stock O2 for JACK!
Good posts by Red Dragon and jimi....you're a patient man 
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PorterzSupra: The ecu uses the stock O2 sensor to adjust mixture during crusing and hot idle. I don't see what's so confusing about this as it's all been explained in previous posts. The basics of this stuff can be found all over the internet so a little study would prevent a lot of this handholding.
.PorterzSupra: The ecu uses the stock O2 sensor to adjust mixture during crusing and hot idle. I don't see what's so confusing about this as it's all been explained in previous posts. The basics of this stuff can be found all over the internet so a little study would prevent a lot of this handholding.
My opinion: Useless for the average owner.
They're a tuning tool and as I stated earlier by the time your brain registers a problem during a hard pull the damage is done.
In day to day use there are so many variables that they don't give consistant readings to get a "feel" for how the motor is running and you end up paranoid at each minute meaningless change.
It's a bit like when people get fixated on their boost gauge and freak when they drop 1 psi without accepting that may be within the gauges + or - range or that a simple change in weather may be the cause.
"stupid is as stupid does"
They're a tuning tool and as I stated earlier by the time your brain registers a problem during a hard pull the damage is done.
In day to day use there are so many variables that they don't give consistant readings to get a "feel" for how the motor is running and you end up paranoid at each minute meaningless change.
It's a bit like when people get fixated on their boost gauge and freak when they drop 1 psi without accepting that may be within the gauges + or - range or that a simple change in weather may be the cause.
"stupid is as stupid does"
they do look pretty with the LED's constantly flashing rich / lean / rich / lean, its kind of soothing and hypnotic lol...
on my a/f gauge,, it seems to steady out under WOT, and it is in the green, Once, when i popped a vac line to the waistgate and it showed me as in the orange, so i looked at the boost gauge, it was passing 18psi.. and i pulled my foot out. it may have saved my motor... i understand what your all saying. Its a false sense of security of sorts...
its true Ian, i am paranoid at every second under boost. after killing a few ct's and having this one upgraded, i am always looking for smoke in the mirror and listening for detonations, and watching the gauges, when i should be looking at where i am going down the road..lol
on my a/f gauge,, it seems to steady out under WOT, and it is in the green, Once, when i popped a vac line to the waistgate and it showed me as in the orange, so i looked at the boost gauge, it was passing 18psi.. and i pulled my foot out. it may have saved my motor... i understand what your all saying. Its a false sense of security of sorts...
its true Ian, i am paranoid at every second under boost. after killing a few ct's and having this one upgraded, i am always looking for smoke in the mirror and listening for detonations, and watching the gauges, when i should be looking at where i am going down the road..lol
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IJ. said:
I'll agree that if something went shit stupid wrong, and went wicked lean during a 120mph hard pull in 4th, yes you could easily do some damage to your engine by the time you see you high-pegged your WB display, no gauge is going to do anything about that.... BUT, if you noticed you went real lean when you pulled out of the driveway, you would know to shut down before you punched it, and thus, save your engine, and in many other cases. So I agree with you, but your doomsday scenario is just that, and there are plenty of instances where it would help you do in some cases prevent and in that hard pull disater, prevent any further damage. you can't tell me its not better to shut down as soon as you realize there is a problem vs. fubar'ing the engine so bad it shuts itself down...
Joel W. said:
This is a very valid paranoia.... it will serve you well. I too am always aware in the back of my mind that things can head south in a heartbeat and am constantly looking for it. Doesn't detract from my enjoyment (ok well who wouldn't want to beat on a car and not care about what happened... but leave that for the rentals, and your buddy's 5.0L), its just part of owning a modified engine in a 15 year old car.
Engine damaging issues usually happen instantaneously, if a motor is leaning out "pulling out your driveway" you would feel it and anyone that beats on a lame motor wouldn't be helped by a random gauge....
But I guess it's one of those cases where I have my opinion and will stick to what I said they're not accurate/reliable enough to be worth the effort in daily use too many variables.
But I guess it's one of those cases where I have my opinion and will stick to what I said they're not accurate/reliable enough to be worth the effort in daily use too many variables.
IJ. said:
I agree with you... but have you watched that video of malloynx making 550 horsepower or what ever it was? In there, he starts a run and abandons it, and some text comes up saying somethign to the effect of "Shutting down, WB went to 18" or something like that. There is a case of saving the engine under a hard pull... just throwing it out there.
I agree with you ian, didnt mean to sound otherwise, i was just explaining something that happened to me once, im sure another half a second and i would have blown something up, i got lucky and happened to see it and made the connection. most probably would not...
i was just explaining something that happened to me once, im sure another half a second and i would have blown something up, i got lucky and happened to see it and made the connection. most probably would not...Anytime I've dyno'd I would place my trust in the Dyno's WB as most times it will be a few $1000 worth rather than a dinkydao $39.95 light show...
I know both the Dyno's I use have Motec WB's and replace the Sensor at short regular intervals as they lose accuracy quite quickly.
Having said this we still lost one of my motors when an injector leaned down during a pull and it happened in a split second with no warning at all.
I'm not sure what they were looking at during Malloy's dyno run but I'd guess the operator spotted it on his own WB gear.
I don't know about you but during a hard pull on the street things are happening so fast in my car no way known could I monitor a WB. (If I didn't have a rev limiter i'd have blown my motor 10x by now as it breaks traction and bounces off the limit in a blink)
I know both the Dyno's I use have Motec WB's and replace the Sensor at short regular intervals as they lose accuracy quite quickly.
Having said this we still lost one of my motors when an injector leaned down during a pull and it happened in a split second with no warning at all.
I'm not sure what they were looking at during Malloy's dyno run but I'd guess the operator spotted it on his own WB gear.
I don't know about you but during a hard pull on the street things are happening so fast in my car no way known could I monitor a WB. (If I didn't have a rev limiter i'd have blown my motor 10x by now as it breaks traction and bounces off the limit in a blink)
yes, we are in different leagues. anything over 12psi for me i start to worry and or shut down.., i dont have enough power for traction loss yet. so im a bit slower.. i have the extra second lol.. as for an bad injector scenario, i would be toast... if i went to your level id toss my a/f in the garbage too...which i will do once i get into tuning..
if i went to your level id toss my a/f in the garbage too...which i will do once i get into tuning..
Ian, are dyno shops really using WBs to tune these days? Huh. All the ones I'm familar with use NDIR. I'd be very nervous tuning off a WB but once tuned I don't see too much of a use for it. If I was going to use it I'd also add EGT.
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so if dyno tuning places use their equipment besides a wideband gauge to monitor a/f why would the average person need a whole wideband setup
mkiii88supra said:
Because not everyone uses a dyno for tuning. Some tune on their own and use the dyno for verification. After all a dyno's capabilities go well beyond tuning. WBs are for the home tuner who can't afford NDIR equipment and also want a method of monitoring. I agree with Ian though, you'd better be either lucky or quick when pushing the envelope or a WB won't save your motor.
To repeatedly bring up a particular topic with no chance of affecting the outcome is beating a dead horse. Example: "Dad, are you sure we can't get a new computer for the upstairs?" Reply: "Son, we talked about this and the decision was 'no'. You are beating a dead horse."
Sorry......had to do it :biglaugh:
Sorry......had to do it :biglaugh:
sorry guys just wanted to make sure i knew everything before i go spend money on something if i didnt need it. im def. gonna get the wideband gauge so hopefully if something goes wrong i have a slight chance of catching it. thanks for all the info i had no clue about tuning or widebands before the thread and now at least i know what they do.
mkiii88supra said:
It's cool man. I think this thread is one of the most informative threads I've seen when it comes to the subject of WBs, it is good also for the ones that will be searching later on.
got another quick question for someone. when you get your car dyno tuned your supposed to leave all the settings as they put them to not mess anything up. now does this also mean you cant mess with boost?