who here stands by the 7m and have 350+ hp reliably

[Speedin89]

Its pretty easy to justify a jz swap, for reliability you cant beat have a stock motor, anything you do to make a motor faster makes it less reliable, so why not put a motor with over 60 more hp even if its more smaller in size. i my opinion my stock 1j has more torque than my stock 7m.

:3d_frown:
Your butt dyno is broken...no one's 1J has more low-end grunt than a 7M.

We're talking about POWER not a 290hp 7M...that can be done MUCH cheaper.
232 + 60 = 350+hp???

I understand what you're trying to say about the starting platform logic...but to swap a 1J then compare stock to stock is dumb. And so are people who do that swap and run a stock jz forever. Wasted potential.


IBTL

 

[Nalleywhacker]

:3d_frown:
Your butt dyno is broken...no one's 1J has more low-end grunt than a 7M.

We're talking about POWER not a 290hp 7M...that can be done MUCH cheaper.
232 + 60 = 350+hp???

I understand what you're trying to say about the starting platform logic...but to swap a 1J then compare stock to stock is dumb. And so are people who do that swap and run a stock jz forever. Wasted potential.


IBTL

No your not understanding what iam saying... a stock 1jz has more tq and more hp than a STOCK 7m does. plain and simple just look up the numbers. You can def get more power out of your 7m for cheaper but the whole point of this thread was realiabilty. and 7m with the same power as a stock 1j will not be as reliable thats what i was saying.

 

[Clint]

Ive had my ups and downs with 7M's but I just couldnt get over how smooth the 1jz power band was.

And yes it is about the owner and how you build the motor and PROPER ENGINE MANAGEMENT makes a big improvement on reliability, one of my good friends makes 640+RWHP on his 7M with pro efi and takes his car to the track almost ever weekend and its still as strong as the first day it started up and he built it from the ground up.

 

[Speedin89]

Not to get into a pissing contest, but...

You're right I'm slightly confused here...

The context you put the "opinionated" torque statement in was that you FEEL more torque. That's not a paper vs. paper discussion...and I call BS to anyone who "feels more torque" in a 1J.

To satisfy your paper vs paper thing...it all matters where in the curve you're getting that power, and in a 7M you're getting it in the meaty area. Power numbers only matter to guys who don't actually run their cars, generally speaking.

And where did a stock 1J even get brought up?
I hope you don't think YOUR stock 1J is still putting out the 280hp or whatever it had almost 20 years ago?!?! If you did nothing but stick it in, I'd guess around 265.

Refer to my first post for the reliability of MY motor. And yes, MY 7M running a measly 265 OR 280hp is WAY more reliable...and cheaper, than your dusty, old, stock JZ.

I'm not built, and I'm running quite a bit more power than 280..for about 3.5 years, on the same HG, with ZERO engine problems. It's all about the supporting mods young one. And yes the driver is a supporting mod.

EDIT: I LOVE JZ's, my posts are in no way personal hatred for the JZ motors...WE'RE ALL IN SUPRAS. Now if you see a RX-7 w/ a 2JZ in it...throw rocks at it.

 

[MKIII TURBO60-1]

i love my car and its stayin 7m if i want a 2j ill buy a mk4, i love making power and makin everyone wonder what motor is in my car cuz they always think its a jz, nope 7m power baby, as far as building are motors, are car never was cheap and still isnt cheap, 6 and 7 grand for a car with over 100,000 miles on orignial motor, what other car has that value not a damn civic

 

[upgradedsupra]

The 7M can be reliable no problem at 350 hp.

Duane

 

[Jaychen]

The 7M can be reliable no problem at 350 hp.

Duane

I like that !

 

[suprahero]

erased, but I know Duane can still see it..........:evil2:

 

[01010011]

i STAND by My 7M only cuz she takes care of me !! wouldn't mind some help builder anybody in the south Fl area??

yeah me and the forum poster beach his name is andrew and im louis we both ride MKIII's in the Broward county area hit me up for number's etc

 

[7MGTESUPRAMAN]

Everyone always hates on me when I tell them I still have a 7m. Pretty much everyone says I should go 1j.... So the 7m is staying in my car..h8rz

That makes two of us even though I have thought about a 1JZ. Its something about a 7M that keeps me wanting to prove people wrong when they bash it.

 

[chefma70]

b reborn my thread

 

[Supraholics]

reliability is all relative. You may drive your car under 4K RPM and never have an issue with 500WHP. If you beat it to redline constantly is a different story.

Driven the same way at heavier load, the JZs are more reliable.

Driven normal, 7M are just as reliable.

Example: put a 7M and a JZ on a dyno and continuously run them like you would in the quarter mile. Both under the same health, the 7M would die first in most cases.

I love the 7M and will always defend it as it can achive a lot. With that in mind, the JZ engine are a better design.

 

[Doward]

reliability is all relative. You may drive your car under 4K RPM and never have an issue with 500WHP. If you beat it to redline constantly is a different story.

Driven the same way at heavier load, the JZs are more reliable.

Driven normal, 7M are just as reliable.

Example: put a 7M and a JZ on a dyno and continuously run them like you would in the quarter mile. Both under the same health, the 7M would die first in most cases.

I love the 7M and will always defend it as it can achive a lot. With that in mind, the JZ engine are a better design.

Bullshit. Take a '92 USDM 7MGTE and a '93 1JZ-GTE and run both WOT and the JZ will die first - the turbos will screw the pooch.


All I can say in my experience, is the fastest Supra in Gainesville is currently sporting a 7MGTE, and there are TWO 1JZs I know of RIGHT NOW down for crankwalk.

 

[Supraholics]

Bullshit. Take a '92 USDM 7MGTE and a '93 1JZ-GTE and run both WOT and the JZ will die first - the turbos will screw the pooch.


All I can say in my experience, is the fastest Supra in Gainesville is currently sporting a 7MGTE, and there are TWO 1JZs I know of RIGHT NOW down for crankwalk.

Take a moment, read both, your statement and mine again and try and comprehend it... I know you can do you

 

[Doward]

Take a moment, read both, your statement and mine again and try and comprehend it... I know you can do you

Example: put a 7M and a JZ on a dyno and continuously run them like you would in the quarter mile. Both under the same health, the 7M would die first in most cases.

In that case, under exactly what conditions?

I still say the stock JZ dies before the stock 7M, due to the turbines failing. Also pointed out that multiple JZs here in Gainesville are dead, yet the 7Ms aren't.

 

[Supraholics]

First, I think of engine reliability in this case directly connected to the engine itself (longblock)

Second, I think CT-26 are just as bad as the twins, and please note that I said JZ, not 1 or 2JZ.

Third, the comparison has to be identical just because too many variables can change the results.

Let's say you had two MIII, one with a 7M and one with a 1JZ and you built them both equally. They both have let's say 500WHP. The JZ should outlast the 7M. Not saying this is the case every time, but usually it is the case. The JZ design is just better.

A better example, but not a fair one to the 7M because of factory defects, would be to have two completely stock motors and run the same tests.

This is my short explanation. I hope it makes sense.

 

[7Mboost]

Take a moment, read both, your statement and mine again and try and comprehend it... I know you can do you

1 exception, tourqing the 7M's HG to proper rating, because they did it for the JZ, and I'm going with Doward on the 7M versus 1JZ bit, why because my brother has a 1JZ and I have a 7M, I have first hand experience, Supraholics I know you car is baller and has all new everything and is going to be sick when it is done but how many 1JZ's, 7M or Supra's for that matter have you owned?

 

[Doward]

This is my short explanation. I hope it makes sense.

No, it doesn't.

Please provide me with a good, mechanical reason for the 7M to fail.

The late model 7M block has the same block strength as the JZs, and IIRC BIGGER head bolt and main bolt fasteners.

The JZ engine, as much as it'll hurt the JZ riceboys, only has THREE base line mechanical improvements over the late model 7M engine - better flowing head, metal gaskets stock, and hypereutectic pistons.

In other words, the JZ is more forgiving than the 7M when you screw up.

The 7M won't put up with half assed BS. I'm completely fine with that., because I won't either

 

[Supraholics]

1 exception, tourqing the 7M's HG to proper rating, because they did it for the JZ, and I'm going with Doward on the 7M versus 1JZ bit, why because my brother has a 1JZ and I have a 7M, I have first hand experience, Supraholics I know you car is baller and has all new everything and is going to be sick when it is done but how many 1JZ's, 7M or Supra's for that matter have you owned?

I have owned 7 IIRC. The list of all cars I've owned in on that thread Dave (Buckshotglass) created.

I'm not trashing the 7M, like I said I always defend it because it IS a very capable engine. The point I'm trying to make is that under the same circumstances, the 7M will die first. Just like I explained earlier.

No, it doesn't.

Please provide me with a good, mechanical reason for the 7M to fail.

The late model 7M block has the same block strength as the JZs, and IIRC BIGGER head bolt and main bolt fasteners.

The JZ engine, as much as it'll hurt the JZ riceboys, only has THREE base line mechanical improvements over the late model 7M engine - better flowing head, metal gaskets stock, and hypereutectic pistons.

In other words, the JZ is more forgiving than the 7M when you screw up.

The 7M won't put up with half assed BS. I'm completely fine with that., because I won't either

You answered yourself on this one. 7M won't put up with little hiccups and because of it it will fail sooner.

JZ series engines handle power better.

 

[Supracentral]

No, it doesn't.

Agreed.

The late model 7M block has the same block strength as the JZs, and IIRC BIGGER head bolt and main bolt fasteners.

The JZ engine, as much as it'll hurt the JZ riceboys, only has THREE base line mechanical improvements over the late model 7M engine - better flowing head, metal gaskets stock, and hypereutectic pistons.

You've forgotten the one major difference. A nearly square bore to stroke ratio on the 2JZ, and a shorter stroke to bore ratio on the 1JZ. These features make both motors better suited to high revs and more forgiving of the occasional bang off the rev limiter. But the tradeoff is you don't get that amazing bottom end torque that a 7M has.

The 7M won't put up with half assed BS. I'm completely fine with that., because I won't either

I'm really somewhat amazed by all these kids who show up on the Supra scene 20 years later and badmouth the motor that made it all happen. The 7M-GTE is an insanely reliable platform provided you address the one major issue (insufficient headbolt torque) with the design.

I continue to back my statement that 99 times out of 100, the weak link in the MKIII (and the 7M) is the owner.

I'm not saying the JZ platform isn't superior. It is. It's a newer design with better mechanicals. But there's nothing inherently wrong with the 7M series motor.

There are some problems faced by the 7M. They are:

#1 - The fact that these motors are old. Most of the time you're getting a motor that has at least 100,000 miles on it and you have no idea what hell it has been through through the last 17 to 23 years. Hell there are people around here with cars and motors that are older than they are.

#2 - Which leads to the second problem, which is is the inexperienced owners who get their hands on them. Add to this the propensity in that age group to "drift" (which is one of the most abusive things you can do to a car), and you've got a recipe for disaster.

#3 - Finally, these owners are ofttimes not up to the financial task of owning a 17 to 23 year old modified sports car.

So please stop with the 7M bashing, there's no excuse for it. The motor is an amazing piece of engineering, even if it stands in the shadow of the 2JZ. Try taking a 20 year old stock Chevy or Honda motor and tripling the horsepower that it put out from the factory...

The JZ series is superior, but only slightly so and only from certain perspectives.