Which engine?

[IndigoMKII]

Well said, Dan.

As for the longevity of the 7M, I'll share my story again - before I got into performance parts, I built a 7M with stock parts, including the gasket. The only difference was the head bolt torque, which I set at 80.

Years later, I decided I wanted more power, so I picked up another longblock, tore it completely down, and built a forged engine. I had this complete and waiting to go in, and decided what the hell, how about finding out where the stock system is good to. So, I turned up the boost a few pounds, and kept driving it. No problems. So, I upgraded the intercooler, and kept driving. Then I turned the boost up some more. Then I had problems with fuel cut, so I added a MAFT, and switched the AFM for a MAF... and turned the boost up some more. I kept going on the same path, turning up the boost, upgrading one thing or another, for NINE MONTHS. I had literally given up, and was about to pull the engine anyway, even though I couldn't seem to kill it.

When I finally popped that engine, I was running an upgraded CT-26 with a 60-1 compressor wheel, Spearco IC and hardpipes, MAFT, GM MAF, adjustable FPR, manual boost controller, stock injectors and fuel pump - and 23 POUNDS OF BOOST. Furthermore, I was driving on an extremely hot day, heading up a mountain, and not taking it easy.

7M is a weak engine, and pops head gaskets easily? Bullshit.

PS: Don't try this at home unless you have another engine waiting to drop into the car, folks.

Thank you Grim. I'm venturing down this same road, not waiting for the engine to pop but seeing how much she will take before I feel it's enough to pull it apart and go big.

I can't understand why everyone just throws the 7m under the bus as if it's some weak engine with tooth picks for connecting rods. Once you solve the big issues with it, such as the oiling, which I will be solving with a shimmed oil pump and a full flow thermostatically controller oil cooler and cooling towards the back cylinders.

 

[BryanDyer]

Thank you Grim. I'm venturing down this same road, not waiting for the engine to pop but seeing how much she will take before I feel it's enough to pull it apart and go big.

I can't understand why everyone just throws the 7m under the bus as if it's some weak engine with tooth picks for connecting rods. Once you solve the big issues with it, such as the oiling, which I will be solving with a shimmed oil pump and a full flow thermostatically controller oil cooler and cooling towards the back cylinders.

becuase the 7m wasn't in fast in te furious and you don see people bragging about their 1000 hp 7m and beating big v8s at the drag strip

 

[GrimJack]

Thank you Grim. I'm venturing down this same road, not waiting for the engine to pop but seeing how much she will take before I feel it's enough to pull it apart and go big.

I can't understand why everyone just throws the 7m under the bus as if it's some weak engine with tooth picks for connecting rods. Once you solve the big issues with it, such as the oiling, which I will be solving with a shimmed oil pump and a full flow thermostatically controller oil cooler and cooling towards the back cylinders.

My test to destruction was still with stock oiling - not even shimmed.

becuase the 7m wasn't in fast in te furious and you don see people bragging about their 1000 hp 7m and beating big v8s at the drag strip

Evidently you're not going to the right drag strips. At my local strip, Duane got kicked off for running under a 9.999, without a good enough cage. 1100 whp on a 7M.

 

[Grandavi]

Doubt anyone is going to have an oil issue running on the street with a 300-500 rwhp 7MGTE MK3... the shim isn't to solve.. its to improve. Not needed at all.

 

[BryanDyer]

My test to destruction was still with stock oiling - not even shimmed.

Evidently you're not going to the right drag strips. At my local strip, Duane got kicked off for running under a 9.999, without a good enough cage. 1100 whp on a 7M.

but how many mk3s with a 7m like that do you hear of? not many I'm not saying they don't exist I'm saying their aren't as many so you don't hear of them as often as a 2j..

 

[gsxr141]

there's a reason for that. for years they got a bad rap, which made people stay away from them. now that the truth is out there, you will see a lot more like his. also, there is way more aftermarket support for the jz motors, but that is changing too.

 

[Grandavi]

7M blocks are disappearing (I found that out when I was looking for a rebuilt shortblock). No OEM ones left period. I think you have to remember that the MK3 is being bought as a cheap powerhouse so the 7M's get trashed by those who don't know how to care about them or just don't care period. If I hunted for 10 MK3's about 3 years back, 9 of them would have engines on the way out. Now, the only survivors have been maintained so its different.. I think they are getting to be more or less 50% bad, 50% good.

RCTS built my engine and I have yet to run across a 7M that they built (Reg Reimer spec'd the builds a loooong time ago) that is dying or dead. All of his 7M's are running strong to the best of my knowledge.

But as long as people buy a MK3 (they are damn cheap for what you get.. I mean.. really damn cheap), do the basic upgrades and then hammer the shit out of the 7M... your gonna see them fail. No maintenance.. just addons and a lot of abuse.

2J's are so much nicer in the engine bay, but I don't regret keeping my 7m. Its native to the car after all.

I find that a LOT of MK2 people are grabbing up the 7Ms for their cars as the 7M people swap to JZ's.

 

[Trent]

7M blocks are disappearing (I found that out when I was looking for a rebuilt shortblock). No OEM ones left period.

I got lucky When I bought my car a year ago the motor that was in it was blown and on a stand but it also came with a brand new from Toyota shortblock, I'm told was one of the last, if not the last, one sold here in the U.S. I could be wrong about that, but the receipt was from the dealer in Houston and was just over 2 year ago now at this poiont.

Needless to say it was one of the MAJOR selling points of the car when I got it.

 

[Grandavi]

I think the very last short block sold from Toyota Japan is sitting in Edmonton AB.

When they were down to 10 left in stock (if I recall the story correctly) Reg Reimer bought them all. He has none left, but he showed me the last one in a crate about 2-3 years ago. I was going to buy it but someone bought it first and I believe it's someone on these forums... Dan?

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

Not I. I can't afford that kind of coin.

As to why people "throw the 7M under the bus" it's pure and simple. The 7M does have an issue with head gaskets. The problem is then compounded by people doing improper repairs. Let's say a shop who does not know these engines, and then puts things back together to factory torque specs. (56 ft-lbs, IIRC.) Or someone does torque the head bolts down, but does not fix an underlying cooling system issue. Someone else who torques the head bolts, fixes the cooling system, but didn't prep the block properly for a MHG. (Because by this time, it's "obvious" that the factory head gasket must be crap, right?)

I ran my 7M at 18 lbs boost off of a 60-1 turbo (And not just a CT-26 upgrade, either) with the factory head gasket and ARP studs. It wasn't the head gasket that failed.

I hear of JZs spinning bearings. Until the day that we can build engines without them, there will be spun bearings. So it was with my 7M. Also, much as I hate to admit it, I may have a share of blame there as well, seeing as how I didn't change the oil after the car had sat all winter with periodic starts, which I know are bad for getting condensate in the oil, and I still took it out and drove pretty hard (Like 18 PSI boost runs.) All that on an engine that sat in a field for an unknown number of years, and I never even LOOKED at the bearings when I popped it into my car. I could complain that the bearings are crap, and that the oiling design is flawed, but we ALL know better.

That's not the case with the head gasket. Like many (MANY!) engines built in the 80s with a cast iron block and an aluminum head, (Which from an engineering standpoint IS bad design, even on the JZ block) the 7M is prone to head gasket failure.

So how did they "fix it" for the JZ? Factory installed MHG and torque-to-yield head studs. (Or I assume so, since I recall the factory torque is 25 ft-lbs, then 90 degrees + 90 degrees.) I bet that's a lot more than the 56 ft-lbs that the 7M got. So what do we do with the 7M? Metal head gaskets and decent head stud/bolt torque.

Other differences might play some factor, but it only makes sense that's the biggest one. The USDM 2JZ has EGR, so it's not that. Maybe the cooling system keeps #6 cooler, but I have yet to see anyone prove that.

 

[Rajunz]

Thanks for the compliments guys. I really hope that a Supra enthusiast ends up buying my car. I'm open to offers, don't really want to see it go on EBAY.

This post says it all, building these cars are expensive as hell if you can't do the wrench work yourself.

My build over 7 years has reached far far too much money because I fell for the numbers that people throw around. It CANNOT be done that cheaply unless you do the work yourself.

So... To the OP, how much can you do yourself?

Also on the original topic, I've built them all. JZ's do have a lot of technological advantages (as they should), but a 7M engine is one sweet street engine. They are not very hard to make dependable, and be able to beat the snot out of them. Both the 7M or JZ engine platforms are precision built engines that take lot of detail and attention to detail when assembling, but build them to specs and they will kick ass. Personally myself, I would never own a 1JZ over a 7M though, I think the1JZ sound like a motorbike when revved.

On the Targa Brace, I had it custom built many years ago. I wanted a brace that would stay on with or without the top on. Three were built, and he figured that they were way too labor intensive to sell them for a profit, so there are only three in existance.

-Lance

 

[ATL88Supra]

7m for $
1jz for $$
2jz for $$$$$

solved

 

[jdmfreak]

7m for $
1jz for $$
2jz for $$$$$

solved

This diagram has been scaled down for your convenience

 

[gtsxtt]

Anyone wanna sell a good 7mgte swap to me in TX?