What does it take to go E85? Advantages/Disadvantages?
- Thread starter Turbo Habanero
- Start date
jetjock;1870477 said:
I will try and get it back on track.
Typhoon;1870569 said:
I think the mods should hold you to your own words. E85 has a much larger subsidy than gasoline, and uses more HCs to get to where the real fuel is. You don't see the price at the pump, just in your with holding.
I only care about the performace aspect, not the environmental impact or subsidies or anything else. THe energy densities are exactly what people have been saying, 30% less.
WHen they start using switch grass and waste greens and with general innovation this shit will get cheaper and easier to produce.
WHen they start using switch grass and waste greens and with general innovation this shit will get cheaper and easier to produce.
What's sad is those who come here for tech advice get a load of BS along with the truth. How are they supposed to know the difference? Only by doing their own research. The internet is much more than a global pornography network you know.
So, non-ethanol 91 octane will have the same detonation resistance as e10 or e15 91, but will (obviously) have more energy to use? Just trying to make sure I'm on the right page here...Poodles;1870487 said:
Same here. Could care little about how or why it exists, the mere fact that it can extract the power that it can without blowing up prematurely, AND cost less than a comparable race fuel (that I don't really have easy access to), sounds like a winning formula to me...Mr Bojangles;1870638 said:
NHTSA Campaign Number: 09V020000
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Manufacturer TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Recall Date: JAN 16, 2009
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 214570
Description ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
Summary TOYOTA IS RECALLING 214,570 MY 2006-2008 LEXUS IS, MY 2006-2007 GS AND MY 2007-2008 LS PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ALUMINUM FUEL DELIVERY PIPES (FUEL RAILS). ETHANOL FUELS WITH A LOW MOISTURE CONTENT WILL CORRODE THE INTERNAL SURFACE OF THE FUEL RAILS. AS THIS CONDITION PROGRESSES, THE ENGINE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LIGHT MAY ILLUMINATE.
Consequence OVER TIME, THE CORROSION MAY CREATE A PINHOLE RESULTING IN FUEL LEAKAGE. FUEL LEAKAGE, IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, COULD RESULT IN A FIRE.
Remedy DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND REPLACE THE FUEL DELIVERY PIPES FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING FEBRUARY 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA/LEXUS AT 1-800-255-3987.
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Manufacturer TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Recall Date: JAN 16, 2009
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 214570
Description ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
Summary TOYOTA IS RECALLING 214,570 MY 2006-2008 LEXUS IS, MY 2006-2007 GS AND MY 2007-2008 LS PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ALUMINUM FUEL DELIVERY PIPES (FUEL RAILS). ETHANOL FUELS WITH A LOW MOISTURE CONTENT WILL CORRODE THE INTERNAL SURFACE OF THE FUEL RAILS. AS THIS CONDITION PROGRESSES, THE ENGINE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LIGHT MAY ILLUMINATE.
Consequence OVER TIME, THE CORROSION MAY CREATE A PINHOLE RESULTING IN FUEL LEAKAGE. FUEL LEAKAGE, IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, COULD RESULT IN A FIRE.
Remedy DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND REPLACE THE FUEL DELIVERY PIPES FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING FEBRUARY 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA/LEXUS AT 1-800-255-3987.
Fuel pumps and hoses must also be made of non-corroding materials, and stainless steel should be used for fuel tanks. (Kind of vague, but I guess its considered a warning to watch as its more corrosive than gasoline?)
The lower energy content of E85 results in slightly lower fuel economy and vehicle driving range.
Those seem to be the only 2 drawbacks (not counting availability.. as I have no access to the fuel at present.. that I know of)
You could also mention the effect on the economy and food chain, but I dont think thats what the OP was asking for.
Advantages are less emissions and higher resistance to detonation.
Does that sum it up?
I was wondering about the emission side, because I remember in the 80's being told never to run wood ethanol in a turbo vehicle. (think this only applies to wood alchohol)
The lower energy content of E85 results in slightly lower fuel economy and vehicle driving range.
Those seem to be the only 2 drawbacks (not counting availability.. as I have no access to the fuel at present.. that I know of)
You could also mention the effect on the economy and food chain, but I dont think thats what the OP was asking for.
Advantages are less emissions and higher resistance to detonation.
Does that sum it up?
I was wondering about the emission side, because I remember in the 80's being told never to run wood ethanol in a turbo vehicle. (think this only applies to wood alchohol)
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Mr Bojangles;1870638 said:
So then you know not to use a fuel like E85. It does have its place. It should be sold at market prices like C16.
Grandavi;1871045 said:
Not true. The low BTU content is "safer" because there is less energy. That is true. And knowing everything posted in the thread, if I had 40 grand to spare, I would have a 330d from BMW for a daily driver.
Regardless of politics, some of us do not have access to a better fuel to use for higher performance applications. I don't have a place to get anything more potent than 91 without using E85, that is even remotely close to 'local'.Nick M;1871062 said:
That said, I read a rather interesting piece in Motortrend this year about ethanol farming in New Mexico. I guess they're growing the stuff out of a man-made algae...
Nick M;1871062 said:
I'm not sure I inderstand your logic here. I do use E85 because it is superior to pump gas in performance and superior to race gas in cost.
Nick M;1871063 said:
Are you saying that you don't believe that E85 has a higher resistance to detonation than pump gas?
Mr Bojangles;1871144 said:
Superior to Pump gas in performance??? Umm... other than the fact that it may be less damaging to the environment coming out the tail pipe or that it is less likely to detonate... how is it superior? Please explain. The higher resistance to detonation is not really arguable.. but if you think about it as apples to apples.. I dont see any real benefit. I avoid ethanol based gas from Mohawk simply because I dont "trust" it (as in.. I am unsure how controlled it is.. because it has a variance). I pay a bundle for premium.. and I cant get that with ethanol.. so I stay with my local gas station. If I was in the states, I probably would avoid E85 if it was available. I dont like living on the bleeding edge of life.
I think the biggest push for E85 is that it helps the US push closer to moving away from oil reliance from the MidEast (which it could do simply by looking North.. but thats political.. lol. You guys get our oil for less than we pay).
E85 (or what it becomes in the next few years) will be better when its been in use longer, problems identified and solved, and they switch from corn to something that makes more sense (as te72 pointed out with the comment about man-made algae).
Let me be more specific. E85 is superior to pump gas in performance turbo applications that are properly tuned for it. Your moms flex fuel impala will not benefit from E85. My mistake, I assumed we were talking about performance and not normal daily driven bullshit cars.
Not only Turbo but supercharged and high compression engines.
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Mr Bojangles;1871144 said:
I guess you missed the chart showing how low the BTU content of E85.
lol.. ah well.. this thread is confusing because the physics dont match the statements. I dont run it so I cant make a qualified statement.
However.. "just the physics" of E85 suggest that the only benefit for a turbo charged/supercharged/whatever car being tuned for it is higher resistance to detonation. "the physics" that I see suggest that you would make less power with the same amount of fuel regardless of your tune.
I must be missing something.
However.. "just the physics" of E85 suggest that the only benefit for a turbo charged/supercharged/whatever car being tuned for it is higher resistance to detonation. "the physics" that I see suggest that you would make less power with the same amount of fuel regardless of your tune.
I must be missing something.
I love how I read the first page and skipped to the 12th and its still just an arguement about E85. lol. Half the people ive seen use it have had excellent results, the other half dont care for it. Maybe it all just comes down to personal preference and how well you can tune a car...