what does it take to get 500hp out of a 7mgte

[gtsfirefighter]

You know the 7M can't be all that bad. After all how many Supras are out there with the original motors that have nearly 200k miles? You'll find there are quite a few. They all have BHG and RK though All this trash talking makes me worry about mine and it's not even in the car yet. STFU!!!:icon_razz

 

[shaeff]

ugh, another 7m vs 1j (jz) argument.

my take:

the guys who swap in jz series motors are usually hardcore gearheads. how many hardcore gearheads do you see NOT maintaining their cars? hmmm. none. so, maybe THAT's why their motors rarely ever fail.

now, keep in the 7m crowd, but delete the hardcore enthusiasts, and focus on the kids who don't maintain their shit. guess what? they run low on oil, rodknock. they crank the boost, run lean, and pop the motor. they aren't as hardcore as some of us others, and slack where it counts the most!

how many of the hardcore 7m guys do you see killing motors due to the motor's integrity? seriously. not many, right? yeah, maintenance. that's why.

let it die. it's not worth fighting about. for christ sake, it's all going in the same damn car!

 

[Doward]

500rwhp in a Supra takes more than $3000

IJ's right - the late model 7M block has many of the improvements you see in the JZ series (thicker castings, stronger mains, etc) - only difference is that MHG!

 

[suprahero]

ugh, another 7m vs 1j (jz) argument.

let it die. it's not worth fighting about. for christ sake, it's all going in the same damn car!

We weren't fighting. It was a very civilized conversation with no evil intent intended...........maybe a few friendly jabs, but that was it......:biglaugh:

 

[88redma70]

so yea i sat and read all of those replys pretty funny stuff guys but dang someone please give me an answer i wanna get the car back together sometime soon:1zhelp:

 

[88redma70]

its kinda funny how u guys get off topic so fast:evil2: :sarcasm: :icon_evil

 

[suprahero]

500rwhp in a Supra takes more than $3000

 

[upgradedsupra]

You will need more than $3000 for a 500RWHP build. Personally, I would build the engine (7M still?) and have it done. Then, you can add turbo and misc parts to reach your goal.

Just wanted to clarify if you are sticking with the 7M still?

I have to add something to this post and will keep this back on topic.

Toyota M engine - Production started 1965
Toyota JZ Engine - Production started 1989

I would say it's about 24 years newer technology, sir.

Actually you speak of the "M" series but it isn't the M we are talking about and you know better.

7M
The 7M or "M" series we are talking about was not available until mid 1986 in the MA-70 Supra.This would only make it 3 years newer and not 24 like you stated,sir. Yes the M,MB or MD or the 2M are not what we are talking about so don't try and pull that one off.:nono:

Newer is not always better but I will leave that one alone.

Duane

 

[gtsfirefighter]

its kinda funny how u guys get off topic so fast:evil2: :sarcasm: :icon_evil

That ain't nothing compared to some other threads.:biglaugh:

But seriously, my STOCK rebuild with machining, sleeving a cylinder, new pistons, and brand new OEM GTE oil pump was around $2000 and was done by someone who works exclusively on MKIII's. You can easily drop that much just in the forged internals alone. So you'll need about $10000 to get it all done right. And I would say that's a very conservative estimate.
Still want 500hp now?

 

[BlackMKIII]

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/mhistory/mhistory.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_M_engine

Displacement changed, so did head design. Chains became belts, and on and on. YES, the M evolved into the 7M we all know. But it is still 60's technology. As I said, I don't really have a problem with the 7M engine. But if Toyota saw a reason to retire it and bring out the JZs, there is good reason.

The same is true of ALL of Toyota's engine. The R engine was replaced by the RZ, the T (and eventually A) replaced by the ZZ. The VZ replaced by the MZ, which was replaced recently by the GR. Were they great engines? Yeah, of course, they're Toyotas! But they got replaced by something Toyota felt was better. And I believe Toyota is smarter than me.

[/rant] I'm done.

 

[upgradedsupra]

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/mhistory/mhistory.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_M_engine

Displacement changed, so did head design. Chains became belts, and on and on. YES, the M evolved into the 7M we all know. But it is still 60's technology. As I said, I don't really have a problem with the 7M engine. But if Toyota saw a reason to retire it and bring out the JZs, there is good reason.
[/rant] I'm done.

I know the history well. We are speaking of M as in 7M is what I am saying. The engine is different than 1965. You are making it sound like the engine was designed in 65 which is incorrect. :3d_frown:

But if Toyota saw a reason to retire it and bring out the JZs, there is good reason.

Also as asked by IJ a couple of times, state the technological improvements from the 7m and JZ please.



Duane

 

[Doward]

Loss of torque. Increase of revability, stock.

 

[Mr.PFloyd]

Larger valves stock, head flows better, MHG.

 

[soapra]

I
Also as asked by IJ a couple of times, state the technological improvements from the 7m and JZ please.



Duane

To answer that question, here is my best answer. I’m sure I left some out but these are the ones that come to mind.


Casting and metallurgy is the first thing that comes to mind. Pistons are better, rods are stronger. The coolant passages in the head are light years ahead, the block is stronger. Oiling system is by far the most improved. Electronics and overall efficiency of total design are the keys to the success of the JZ engines.

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

Rods are shorter as well.

 

[soapra]

Loss of torque. Increase of revability, stock.

HP and torque on the yellow boxes are with low compression on two cylinders. HP and torque in the green are with a helthy engine. Same mods two different engines. The lower HP engine had detonated and took two cylinders with it. faulty fuel pump is to blame. No torque claims are stupid. I drive my car every day at 19 psi making that much power with magical torque. This is not bad for an otherwise internally stock engine with "high miles" I would like to see a 7M come from japan unopened and internally stock do that for over three years!

 

[IJ.]

To answer that question, here is my best answer. I’m sure I left some out but these are the ones that come to mind.


Casting and metallurgy is the first thing that comes to mind. Pistons are better, rods are stronger. The coolant passages in the head are light years ahead, the block is stronger. Oiling system is by far the most improved. Electronics and overall efficiency of total design are the keys to the success of the JZ engines.

Can't see that the late 7M's would have any different material used in the blocks compared to a Jz but I'm open to being educated if you have info supporting this?

Pistons better how?

Rod failure isn't an issue with a 7M?

The Head is a much nicer design

I'd hazard a guess that a late 7M block is as strong due to being 2mm thicker everywhere and having external ribs like a Jz

7M Oiling system is functional the only failures can be traced directly to owner error and not a design flaw

Electronics are another given.

I'm NOT bagging the Jz series far from it they're an evolution of the M and not a clean sheet wonder motor as some believe.

The 7M just isn't the dog some make it out to be and Shaeff's post pretty well nailed it.

 

[88redma70]

ok so i decided to do the 1jz swap with a boost controoler and downpipe greddy sp2 exhaust and leave it alone:biglaugh: :naughty:

 

[suprahero]

This can only end in ugliness, so I am forced to close this thread.

We'll have to agree to disagree on which is better. This question may be the true meaning of life...........:biglaugh:

 

[BlackMKIII]

ok so i decided to do the 1jz swap with a boost controoler and downpipe greddy sp2 exhaust and leave it alone:biglaugh: :naughty:

And that is how this thread should end.