Went to the track... highly disappointed, and found a major problem.

[Doward]

*laughes* I see what you mean. Odd, though, as it's coming back as ~ -64mV... The fact that it is coming up negative leads me to think the leads are crossed... that's clearly not the case. Might be time to invest in a better DMM

Or... how about I just tap the signal line from the O2 itself? Should give me the same thing, yes?

 

[Doward]

Yes, sir, I see that clearly here in the TSRM. When I installed the ZT-2, I followed a diagram I found on SF, and it said to hook the NB-Simulator the Vf. In other words, Narrowband simulation is not currently hooked up appropriately, and I may have gone off looking for a problem that never existed. :3d_frown:

I'm going to go out right now (1:05am be damned, lol! Where's that pic of the Supra in the air @ 3am? ) and re-wire the ZT-2 correctly, following the TSRM's wiring diagrams.

I think what has happened here, is the ECM went into stupid rich mode on me, when I hooked up the ZT-2, and obviously never hooked up the narrowband simulation correctly.

This would explain why my Bosch 4 wire seems to have everything run smoothly, though I can't verify the actualy AFR.

If my ZT-2 narrowband works correctly when hooked up right, I should get the same Vf reading (or close) as I do with the Bosch O2.

JJ, I'll give you a +1, as soon as I figure out how Done!

Even so, if this all works out, it was all for the sake of science, and learning!

 

[jetjock]

50 lashes!

O2 is an ECU input. Vf is an ECU output. There is no way it can process signals. You may have have toasted your WB simulator circutry but lets hope not. If it doesn't work when you try it use the NB for AF compensation and use the WB for monitoring after installing another bung. Imho that's the way it oughta be anyway.

I can tell you what happens when the O2 input is disconnected. If you had the WB connected to Vf and the O2 input was floating the ECU will run the engine slightly rich. You should've gotten a code for that long ago though.

Ok, good luck...I'm taking a few aspirin and going to sleep

 

[cjsupra90]

Just read this entire thread. Quite interesting that someone stated to hook the SIM. NB output to the Vf........:nono:

Anyways, yeah your Vf readings shoud be very close to what the Bosch 4wire was. Not 100% sure about the ZT-2, but every other WB system that I have delt with base the Sim. NB output on the standard Bosch NB afr to votage curve

 

[IJ.]

<golf clap>
Got there in the end

 

[Doward]

JJ, glad I could put your mind through its paces CJ, yeah, it is. But then, when you aren't familiar with the TCCS, you tend to go with what seems to be 'tried and true'

Reminds me why I should always double check what anyone (or in this case, what a group of people) told me was 'correct' I'm going to fire her up, let her warm up, and measure Vf.

I hope I didn't fry the NB circuitry

 

[jetjock]

Yeah, we'll simply blame the scumbags over on SF

Couple of things puzzle me though. First, why no faulty O2 sensor code. Second, why a lack of power. Stoich is not best power mixture, it's lowest emissions mixture. Best power comes richer than that, about where you were running.

Ah well, I'm going to sleep. Have fun with it and let us know how it all turns out.

 

[cjsupra90]

I did think about the possibility of frying the NB circutiry, but probably not as it should and most likely had a diode in it for protection.

 

[cjsupra90]

Yeah, we'll simply blame the scumbags over on SF

Couple of things puzzle me though. First, why no faulty O2 sensor code. Second, why a lack of power. Stoich is not best power mixture, it's lowest emissions mixture. Best power comes richer than that, about where you were running.

Ah well, I'm going to sleep. Have fun with it and let us know how it all turns out.

Yeah, the lack of O2 code has got me puzzled also. The lack of power, well as rich as he was running, there would diffinitly be a lack of power. Best power on a turbo engine typically comes somewhere inbetween 11.5 to 12.5 AFR's

 

[Doward]

JJ, I will... currently still warming up, Vf is no longer registering on the diag block (but I did tap into it @ the ECM - I figure, hell - it's a 0-5v, I can run that as an aux input on the ZT-2, so maybe the ZT-2 is cutting off the flow out there.. I'll know in a few)

OX is reading 109mV last I checked... still warming up

 

[IJ.]

Automotive electronics are fairly sturdy as they need to be "Gumby Proof" most times they're not fitted by Mensa members !

 

[Doward]

Yes! I'm idling pretty @ 14.4-14.5 AFR according to the ZT-2. Quick rev dips down to 13.8, then comes back up to 14.2, and inches toward 14.5 again as I hold the RPMs steady.

Granted, it's 2am... I should be at least a little considerate of my neighbors... Celebratory rounds on me, then I'm hitting the hay myself


Tomorrow... the search for Vf :evil2:

 

[cjsupra90]

Take it out for a quick run and see how she runs and just watch the AFR's during the heavy load conditions.

 

[Doward]

I want to, but I can't be ripping up the streets @ 2am... I'll try it out when I wake up tomorrow morn Well, later today...:biggrinbo

 

[johnathan1]

YAY!! (Just read this whole thread) That's awesome!

Oh, and I am very proud of the fact that I have also made JJ go crazy before...:biglaugh:

 

[Doward]

Ok, for whatever reason, if I hook the blue wire of the ZT-2 (User input 0-5v) I get no reading at all for Vf.

Unhook it, and with the ZT-2 hooked up, I'm reading a nice 2.21v on the Vf @ the Diagnostic block.

Now for some on-the-road logging!

*EDIT*

Cliff's Run Down On The Thread:

1) Going to the track, so installed ZT-2 wideband
2) Wideband incorrectly installed, so no O2 to ECU - ECU goes pig rich mode.
3) JJ's hair turns grey
4) Wideband's Vf compared to Bosch 4 wire Vf - problem determined to be in the ZT-2's input to the ECU (Still unknown if it is the sensor itself, or the wiring)
5) Fixed! :biggrinbo

I'd still like to know why when I hook up the ZT-2, I get no output via Vf. JJ, is there any sort of specific resistance the ECU looks for, in order to output Vf?

 

[jetjock]

No, the Vf is simply a stepped voltage output. Even with a high impedance meter connected to it it still outputs. I'm a bit confused about what you're doing though. What "user input" on the WB of 0-5 volts are you talking about and what is it's function?

CJ, I was talking about his AFs during cruise but yes....I was tired and didn't bother re-reading the entire thread. My bad.

Johnathan: Driving me crazy is a short ride

 

[Doward]

Does Vf alter itself at all @ idle? I'm still outputting 2.21v - and my damn idle AFR is back to 12.5.

So I pull the vacuum line to the brake booster - instant lean miss + registering 19.6 AFR.

Partially cover the vacuum nipple, idle gets glass smooth (smoother than normal, even!) and I'm sitting 14.7-14.8 AFR.

Hooking the vacuum line back up to the brake booster - 12.5 AFR again.

No codes during any of this, and no change in Vf, either. This has really stumped me now, because I changed *NOTHING* from last night before I went out to check it out again!

 

[jetjock]

Doward, you need to answer my questions. After all, I'm trying to help you by answering yours

Yes, Vf is active at idle. All I can assume is the WB simulation signal is still wrong even though you have it connected properly. Or maybe the WB itself is bad and thus the sumulation signal is shifted. You need a way to measure it. Or put the stock sensor back in and see if you have other problems in the engine.

The Vf output has multiple functions. 1) It'll output a voltage to tell you if codes are present. 2) It outputs a digitized O2 signal and 3) It outputs the 5 step fuel trim signal. It all depends on if the diag block is jumpered and if the IDL contacts on the TPS are closed or not. Be sure you're using it right. Look in your manual for more info.

 

[Doward]

10-4. Which questions do you want answered?

The 'User Input' on the ZT-2 will display any 0-5v 'input' you put into it... in this case, I was attempting to use the 'User Input' to display Vf, so I could check it on the fly while attempting to diagnose where the ECM is determined to run rich.

I've got a stock original O2 sitting here now, as well. If I can find my propane torch, I should be able to verify if it is still good or not.