weak power issues...**Updated** Wideband Video...HELP !!!

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Ok since I'm new to the 7m GTE im a little confused as to what's going on with my Supra. While driving around tonight with some friends, I noticed a couple things that just don't seem right as to other MKIII's I have driven and rode in. Mine is smoking bad under boost, and the car just does'nt pull under boost like what I have experienced with other MKIII's in the past. The other issue is it died on me once when I was slowing to turn into a parking lot. It started back up right away, with a fluctuating idle for about 10 seconds, then smoothed out to the normal 1k. When I left to come home, I carefully kept a watch on my boost gauge (AEM Truboost), it showed normal and steady vacuum at cruising speed (about -19).. and positive steady boost under acceleration. I don't drive the car hard and have yet to plant my foot and hold...but I did let it spin to just shy of 5k before I shifted. Honestly the car feels normal until boost is reached... then it just feels retarded and only makes noise..and smoke. As a reference, my buddies 06 G35 (bone stock) absolutley raped me off the line on the 1 take off we did. I didnt redline it, but there was no need, he was long gone...:1zhelp:

Sorry this was so long, I guess I have boost leak.. but I hold good pressure, and I just checked all the IC piping 2 days ago. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Mods for reference:

BIC DDP, stock CT26 and piping, RPS Stage 3 Clutch, 3' Exhaust to Apexi N1,
OBX Cam gears, K & N Air Filter, FAL dual-electric fans. Boost controller set to 8 psi.

 

[Hmong_1G]

I can point out a few things. AFM, coolant temp sensor, spark blowout, compression lost, turbo dying, timing, phantom knock..... but best way to tackle this is compression and leak down test. Most if these you should consider if still on the factory computer.

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Yea it's the stock ecu. I was actually wondering about the sparkplugs pretty heavy, I was intending on changing them soon anyway. I looked closely at the AFM the other day and it looks fine. Is there anyway I can check it ? The car supposedly had a good compression test right before I bought it, only now I am wondering about that. My neighbor has a compression check tool/gauge I can borrow so that will help. I gotta go dig up the compression specs then, thanks for the input.

 

[jdub]

I can point out a few things. AFM, coolant temp sensor, spark blowout, compression lost, turbo dying, timing, phantom knock..... but best way to tackle this is compression and leak down test. Most if these you should consider if still on the factory computer.

Excuse me, but WTF is "phantom knock"?

I have a novel idea, how about checking ECU codes?

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Excuse me, but WTF is "phantom knock"?

I have a novel idea, how about checking ECU codes?

Yea I've never heard of phantom knock either, that one threw me for a loop. I know I'm not up to date with some of the newer phrased car problems, but please don't confuse me lol.

What do you mean by checking ecu codes? I don't have any CEL's lit up.

 

[jdub]

Most codes will not illuminate the CEL...here's how to check:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/TechTips/engine_error_codes.aspx

BTW - it says you have to start the car...all you have to do is have the key on. I would start by clearing all codes by pulling the EFI fuse (in the engine bay box) and then taking the car for a drive. Then come home and check...this will clear any old codes that may or may not be still active.

Use of terms like "phantom knock" does cause confusion...you'll hear the term "limp mode" referring to the ECU as well. Neither are in the TSRM and and are complete BS when it comes to diagnostics. This kind of terminology has to stop.

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Thanks Jdub

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

OK here are my codes:
31 - AFM
34 Turbo pressure
42- VSS
43- Starter Signal
51- Switch Signal ( cygnus says A/C related or TPS sensor/circuit)

--YIKES !!!

 

[figgie]

Excuse me, but WTF is "phantom knock"?

I have a novel idea, how about checking ECU codes?

I think that is the Prequel to

Star Wars Ep 1: The Phantom Menace

with that said, it takes a very specific frequency window for the TCCS to pull timing due to knock or "phatom knock"

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Ok so unless I misunderstood the codes, I did'nt have one related to knock. I did clear the codes by using the reset method involving the pull of the efi fuse. I started the car up and the idle smoothed out to just a tick over 1000 after a few seconds. I'm fixing to go run to the store, and see how it runs. I'll be back with the results. Right now I'n thinking I need sparkplugs and a new AFM. I also turned off my boost controller for the time being. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Hmong_1G]

Phantom Knock is when knock sensor picks up loud ticks or loose parts instead of pinging (detonation). It is a known word in the DSM community and others. Guess it is new here then. Still possible that it can happen. "A knock that doesn't relate to combustion that is detected by the ECU and adjust accordingly" hence phantom knock.

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

I'll have to add that description to what I know.. that way when I hear it again, I won't feel like a retard...lol. Knock I am familiar with, but was unaware a ecu could pick up non- combustion signals. Learn something everyday I guess.

Anyway, got back from my errends, and car seems to be a little more normal. Smooth idle at the lights, smoother acceleration and it didnt try to die/stall on me. The acceleration when boost is reached still feels weird, I can't really describe it other than it does'nt feel like the boost I have experienced with other MKIII's. I'm pretty confident if a veteran MKIII driver drove my car, they would say "where's the rest of the boost?", because it really only feels like 3-4 psi.

on a strange note.. the ecu codes did not come back (yet).. now I am really wondering wtf ?..lol. maybe the previous owner worked on the car and unplugged the afm and other stuff without disconnecting the battery first ?

 

[Hmong_1G]

Yep. Fix and clear those codes the give us compression readings across. Good luck.

 

[jdub]

Phantom Knock is when knock sensor picks up loud ticks or loose parts instead of pinging (detonation). It is a known word in the DSM community and others. Guess it is new here then. Still possible that it can happen. "A knock that doesn't relate to combustion that is detected by the ECU and adjust accordingly" hence phantom knock.

1 - This is not a DSM
2 - The TCCS is completely different
3 - The knock sensors on the 7M have a very specific frequency they "listen" for...7kHz to be exact. That is due to the racket this motor makes internally when under normal running conditions.
4 - What you are calling "phantom knock" is not possible on this motor.

Basically, what you said is complete and utter BS when it comes to a 7M...especially in the Tech section. Next time you post something like this without a TSRM or Toyota tech paper to back it up, there will be consequences other than me posting a warning (like this one). Do not do this again - Got it?

I'll have to add that description to what I know.. that way when I hear it again, I won't feel like a retard...lol. Knock I am familiar with, but was unaware a ecu could pick up non- combustion signals. Learn something everyday I guess.

Anyway, got back from my errends, and car seems to be a little more normal. Smooth idle at the lights, smoother acceleration and it didnt try to die/stall on me. The acceleration when boost is reached still feels weird, I can't really describe it other than it does'nt feel like the boost I have experienced with other MKIII's. I'm pretty confident if a veteran MKIII driver drove my car, they would say "where's the rest of the boost?", because it really only feels like 3-4 psi.

on a strange note.. the ecu codes did not come back (yet).. now I am really wondering wtf ?..lol. maybe the previous owner worked on the car and unplugged the afm and other stuff without disconnecting the battery first ?

You are not a retard. The info Hmong posted was very general and included inaccurate statements that do not apply to the 7M (or any other Supra motor). Your confusion was completely understandable.

It is very possible the codes cleared and didn't return...for a variety of reasons, one is the car could have been run with the AFM unplugged. That is why I told you to clear and recheck.

I would make sure timing is set correctly before I went to the effort of a compression/leak down test our resident DSM guy suggested. The spec is 10 deg BTDC with the same diagonistic block terminals jumped as when you checked codes. Obviously the car has to be running for this one. When you disconnect the jumper, timing should increase to >14 deg BTDC.

 

[Hmong_1G]

Sorry J dub. Just stating possibilities that is why I threw it out there ( not saying it is the problem). My general rule of thumb is compression/leak down. Just about as basic as a car owner can get when coming down to diagnosing a problem.

PS... upon starting my fresh rebuild motor, we heard a similar noise to exhaust leaks or valve lifters stuck. 2 minutes in and it threw a check engine light for knock. 2 hours digging into it and turn out the machine shop installed the oil scraper incorrectly. This slight noise caused havok when trying to set ignition timing. Knock sensor was properly torqued down according to TSRM.

I apologize for throwing something that might not sense to the community, but just letting everyone know that it does exist.

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

Ok well I was gonna post this earlier, but I woke up this morning feeling bad.

Codes are still gone, and timing is good. It's spec dead-on...10 BTDC at idle, then goes to 14. No compression test yet, because I think I just need new sparkplugs. I can listen to the car idle and hear the misfire every so often. I'll be relieved if that is what it is. I have already tried to get the plugs out...with epic fail I am embarrassed to say. I could'nt get the coil pack off. Looks like a trip to the dealer is in my future...uggh.

 

[jdub]

Sorry J dub. Just stating possibilities that is why I threw it out there ( not saying it is the problem). My general rule of thumb is compression/leak down. Just about as basic as a car owner can get when coming down to diagnosing a problem.

PS... upon starting my fresh rebuild motor, we heard a similar noise to exhaust leaks or valve lifters stuck. 2 minutes in and it threw a check engine light for knock. 2 hours digging into it and turn out the machine shop installed the oil scraper incorrectly. This slight noise caused havok when trying to set ignition timing. Knock sensor was properly torqued down according to TSRM.

I apologize for throwing something that might not sense to the community, but just letting everyone know that it does exist.

Not sure what happened to you, but it was not because the knock sensor detected engine noise that caused the CEL to illuminate. If everything is working correctly with the knock sensors, the TCCS will pull timing when either knock sensor detects a 7 kHz frequency (as I said). There will be no indication to the driver...the CEL will not illuminate if the system is working as it should.

It's a common misunderstanding of how the system works...people think the CEL illuminates whenever the ECU pulls timing in response to knock. This is not true if everything is working properly.

The CEL will illuminate if a code 52 is registered. That means there is a problem detected by the ECU with either knock sensor or the wiring to the ECU...the CEL is an indication of a system malfunction. This is not a normal condition and the code indicates the knock sensors are not working or the signal is not reaching the ECU. As a result, the TCCS retards timing to the max value as a fail-safe function.

In your case, either the code 52 was an old stored code or something was wrong with the sensors/wiring that got fixed. The CEL was not because of the noise from the scraper.

"Phantom knock" does not exist in the Toyota TCCS. This is not a possibility, regardless of what you think caused your problem. You can delete this term for any discussion on this forum.

Ok well I was gonna post this earlier, but I woke up this morning feeling bad.

Codes are still gone, and timing is good. It's spec dead-on...10 BTDC at idle, then goes to 14. No compression test yet, because I think I just need new sparkplugs. I can listen to the car idle and hear the misfire every so often. I'll be relieved if that is what it is. I have already tried to get the plugs out...with epic fail I am embarrassed to say. I could'nt get the coil pack off. Looks like a trip to the dealer is in my future...uggh.

Plugs and/or wires was going to be my next suggestion.

 

[MKIIISupraGuy]

yea i'm gonna try and get plugs and wires done. I called the dealer.. they want almost 200 bucks to do the job, and I only got a week to get it done before I go out of town for work, so I need it done asap. uggh. On top of that, my cell phone bit the dust, so if I break down.. I'm stranded. dam the madness...lol. This shit catches me right in between paydays too. grrrr.

 

[BOOSTEDSUPRA]

Ok since I'm new to the 7m GTE im a little confused as to what's going on with my Supra. While driving around tonight with some friends, I noticed a couple things that just don't seem right as to other MKIII's I have driven and rode in. Mine is smoking bad under boost, and the car just does'nt pull under boost like what I have experienced with other MKIII's in the past. The other issue is it died on me once when I was slowing to turn into a parking lot. It started back up right away, with a fluctuating idle for about 10 seconds, then smoothed out to the normal 1k. When I left to come home, I carefully kept a watch on my boost gauge (AEM Truboost), it showed normal and steady vacuum at cruising speed (about -19).. and positive steady boost under acceleration. I don't drive the car hard and have yet to plant my foot and hold...but I did let it spin to just shy of 5k before I shifted. Honestly the car feels normal until boost is reached... then it just feels retarded and only makes noise..and smoke. As a reference, my buddies 06 G35 (bone stock) absolutley raped me off the line on the 1 take off we did. I didnt redline it, but there was no need, he was long gone...:1zhelp:

Sorry this was so long, I guess I have boost leak.. but I hold good pressure, and I just checked all the IC piping 2 days ago. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Mods for reference:

BIC DDP, stock CT26 and piping, RPS Stage 3 Clutch, 3' Exhaust to Apexi N1,
OBX Cam gears, K & N Air Filter, FAL dual-electric fans. Boost controller set to 8 psi.

im coming in a bit late to the covorsation but i have the same truboost, and under steady driving aka freeway, my vacuum is -13 give or take. sounds like a boost leak there and all the codes i have had the exact same ones, definatly will kill the power, most harmfull is the knock sensor code. follw j's lead and its all good.

oh and "phantom knock"? that like..."phantom rod through my block"? thought a knock was a knock?:aigo:

 

[Kevin]

yea i'm gonna try and get plugs and wires done. I called the dealer.. they want almost 200 bucks to do the job, and I only got a week to get it done before I go out of town for work, so I need it done asap. uggh. On top of that, my cell phone bit the dust, so if I break down.. I'm stranded. dam the madness...lol. This shit catches me right in between paydays too. grrrr.

$200 to change plugs and wires?? wtf lol
why dont you just diy. not so hard. plugs and wires can be purchased for around $100. and its like a 15 minute job. plus while your at it you can check your ic piping for leaks and cracks