exactly. I wasnt planning on adding 2 qts. I was just wondering what was safe? I meant to measure volume before I reinstalled my pan, but im at the point where I just want to get this thing done.
Ways to cure 7M oiling issues
- Thread starter williamb82
- Start date
mk3forme said:
I think IJ is saying +1 should be safe. That's what I'll probably end up doing. If I ever get my oil cooler installed, I'll have to compensate for that as well.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
I have not been here in awhile, and this thread has gone OT quite a bit.
1) Nice oil pan idea, but have you actually fit that in the car yet? The area is not very wide actually, so measure twice, and cuss less.
2) Scrapers as noted need to be fitted to work well. Also shimming the pan down, and using a gasket as noted = leaks. (I reccomend never use a gasket on the oil pan, just use well placed form a gasket, or right stuff for no leaks.)
3) The idea of removing guide pins, and plugging up oil holes in the pump? WTF? Easy pump mod. Shim the pump bypass with one 10mm nut. Done. If you want more flow, ARZ's hard pipe upgrade appears to be a great option.
4) Squirters are a source of "lost" oil pressure, but Toyota did put them on the engine for a reason. Cooling your pistons is no joke, so keep them on the engine. Coatings are not a bad idea either for the pistons. The stock rod "squirter" hole in the shoulder sprays oil on the piston bore thrust surface. I'd think that over many years of use, not having them would just about balance out the possible rod bearing wear avoided by keeping more oil pressure on the rod bearings v/s lubing up the walls of your bores.
5) The best pan upgrade I've seen yet is kicking out the side where the pickup is up against the pan. Then adding a Group A type round baffle with slots cut into it that goes around the pickup basket. Also bending the pickup basket down so it's deeper into the oil in your pan. (Simple measurement here, but it's too high off the pan floor stock, and that is all oil you might need someday.)
6) Scrap your pressure based cooling system. Get a remote filter, cooler and use a thermostat. You want your oil hotter than 180f, but cooler than 220f. Thermostat and a large cooler with do that. Anything else, and your just guessing it's right.
7) Buy good filters. Canton/Mecca is not a bad choice. There are others too. Don't spend 500.00+ on this and then spin on Fram shit box filters. It makes those of us who care, weep. Purolator, Wix and Champion all make good spin on filters. (Yes, Champion, who makes the WalMart ST filters by the way, so you do not have to spend lots, to get quality actually. Just research, and there is TONS of info on filters out there.)
8) If you are going to slide, brake or drag your Supra, I highly reccomend a accusump type device. You prelube your engine before start up, and you protect it all the rest of the time from low pressure. It is cheaper than an engine rebuild, or trying to figure out a dry sump setup. The only downside is finding space for the sump, and paying for the pumbing.
9) Last, run more oil. 1 quart on a stock engine is where you should be on the LOW end. I've run 12 on my setup, but find that 10 appears to be perfect. No blowing oil out the dipstick at the drag races... My crank is knife edged, I do not have a scraper, I did not modify my pan, but my engine is always sitting on 3 quarts of reserve oil ready to be forced into it if the pressure drops below 20lbs at any time while running. I've found on my engine, that "Full" is when the oil level is just at the wire on the dipstick. (Where the flat metal is crimped to the wire... that's the full point.) The crank/rods even on my stroker engine are nowhere near the oil in the pan at that fill level. With the stock pan, you are going to have sloshing oil even with 5 quarts, so why worry about running 6 or 7? BFD for the few seconds of windage loss, v/s a possible rod knock or other bearing damage? The other hours of use, your engine will not be whipping up any of the extra oil.
Just my observations.
PS: Hear this "Oil drainback holes... blah blah, and how oil could be trapped up in the engine/head.." And that oil is trapped on one side of the head or the other.........Anyone who says that and has actually looked at a 7M head apart must be blind....... You could pour GALLONS of oil through a 7M drain back system. And unlike some other heads, the 7M design can't trap oil on one side or the other.. Just look at it, and you will quickly see what I'm talking about.
1) Nice oil pan idea, but have you actually fit that in the car yet? The area is not very wide actually, so measure twice, and cuss less.
2) Scrapers as noted need to be fitted to work well. Also shimming the pan down, and using a gasket as noted = leaks. (I reccomend never use a gasket on the oil pan, just use well placed form a gasket, or right stuff for no leaks.)
3) The idea of removing guide pins, and plugging up oil holes in the pump? WTF? Easy pump mod. Shim the pump bypass with one 10mm nut. Done. If you want more flow, ARZ's hard pipe upgrade appears to be a great option.
4) Squirters are a source of "lost" oil pressure, but Toyota did put them on the engine for a reason. Cooling your pistons is no joke, so keep them on the engine. Coatings are not a bad idea either for the pistons. The stock rod "squirter" hole in the shoulder sprays oil on the piston bore thrust surface. I'd think that over many years of use, not having them would just about balance out the possible rod bearing wear avoided by keeping more oil pressure on the rod bearings v/s lubing up the walls of your bores.
5) The best pan upgrade I've seen yet is kicking out the side where the pickup is up against the pan. Then adding a Group A type round baffle with slots cut into it that goes around the pickup basket. Also bending the pickup basket down so it's deeper into the oil in your pan. (Simple measurement here, but it's too high off the pan floor stock, and that is all oil you might need someday.)
6) Scrap your pressure based cooling system. Get a remote filter, cooler and use a thermostat. You want your oil hotter than 180f, but cooler than 220f. Thermostat and a large cooler with do that. Anything else, and your just guessing it's right.
7) Buy good filters. Canton/Mecca is not a bad choice. There are others too. Don't spend 500.00+ on this and then spin on Fram shit box filters. It makes those of us who care, weep. Purolator, Wix and Champion all make good spin on filters. (Yes, Champion, who makes the WalMart ST filters by the way, so you do not have to spend lots, to get quality actually. Just research, and there is TONS of info on filters out there.)
8) If you are going to slide, brake or drag your Supra, I highly reccomend a accusump type device. You prelube your engine before start up, and you protect it all the rest of the time from low pressure. It is cheaper than an engine rebuild, or trying to figure out a dry sump setup. The only downside is finding space for the sump, and paying for the pumbing.
9) Last, run more oil. 1 quart on a stock engine is where you should be on the LOW end. I've run 12 on my setup, but find that 10 appears to be perfect. No blowing oil out the dipstick at the drag races... My crank is knife edged, I do not have a scraper, I did not modify my pan, but my engine is always sitting on 3 quarts of reserve oil ready to be forced into it if the pressure drops below 20lbs at any time while running. I've found on my engine, that "Full" is when the oil level is just at the wire on the dipstick. (Where the flat metal is crimped to the wire... that's the full point.) The crank/rods even on my stroker engine are nowhere near the oil in the pan at that fill level. With the stock pan, you are going to have sloshing oil even with 5 quarts, so why worry about running 6 or 7? BFD for the few seconds of windage loss, v/s a possible rod knock or other bearing damage? The other hours of use, your engine will not be whipping up any of the extra oil.
Just my observations.
PS: Hear this "Oil drainback holes... blah blah, and how oil could be trapped up in the engine/head.." And that oil is trapped on one side of the head or the other.........Anyone who says that and has actually looked at a 7M head apart must be blind....... You could pour GALLONS of oil through a 7M drain back system. And unlike some other heads, the 7M design can't trap oil on one side or the other.. Just look at it, and you will quickly see what I'm talking about.
how wide is it? pending the kickout width (assuming they are the same 'depth' (front to rear) as the stock sump) you might have issues with subframe clearance (because of the slight curve rearward in the subframe).
Just something to be aware of.
Just something to be aware of.
starscream5000 said:
Yes, it has been in the car.
No issues except a pain in the ass to drain!
God, 7 quarts is a Lot of oil.........
Fill up one jug with dirty oil, and I still have another to go!
I just know I am going to end up spilling some sooner or later.
Now I have to build another for my twin-charged engine.
7M-fanatic said:
Check out jdub's SME section on here. He has a nice little link to a screw in valve for the oil pan that will allow you to drain the oil by just turning a little lever. Once your first container is full, close the lever, place the next empty container there, then open back up and drain completely.
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
I love this thread!
Running seven quarts here on a completely stock gte oil system. Little bit of blue smoke on start up from 80k ct-26 seals. Other than that, perfect tsrm oil pressure specs and no problems.
Running seven quarts here on a completely stock gte oil system. Little bit of blue smoke on start up from 80k ct-26 seals. Other than that, perfect tsrm oil pressure specs and no problems.
hey there, i have a mkiii turbo and want to put the 12mm waser in the pressure reilief, can you tell me where to locate it please, and stellar right up!
NOT 12mm...... :nono:
5mm max and it's in the relief valve on the Oil pump inside the Pan.
On a GTE there's a 2nd one in the Cooler Bypass valve that needs to be shimmed the same amount. (some NA's have this as well on a block fitting)
5mm max and it's in the relief valve on the Oil pump inside the Pan.
On a GTE there's a 2nd one in the Cooler Bypass valve that needs to be shimmed the same amount. (some NA's have this as well on a block fitting)
Hey i put both shims in the pump and the filter adapter, My oil pressure indicator on the freeway is 40lbs. Which is a good thing, i also did the bigger line upgrade on the pump and pickup. AZ performance.IJ. said:
Jet
Adjuster said:
I have used Fram for years, and no problems until........
I am thinking they were the cause of my first melt-down on my NA build.
Engine went back together (again), and run less than an hour when I changed oil & filter.
Cut the Fram apart just to check out, and it already had a seperation between the pleats & the end cap.
Never again !!
I have went to the Mobil-1 filter.
Turbo. Targa. Life.
SupraMania Shirt Slinger!
Wix makes a decent filter as well, and they're only around $8-12. Mobil1's are hard to find around here for some reason...
yeah, i got mine free. he borrowed a 7mge i had layin in storage to get the measurments for the crank scraper. still havent used it yet. lol.
does that really help? id think the rods smacking the teflon all the time would cause teflon particls in the oil. min is the first origonal single scraper design. still wanting a block girdle. he said something about making us one but he never got back into contact with me to bottow the 7m bottom end again to fab one.