V8 Supras

[IJ.]

I must say that for years I never liked swaping motor's from other companys in a car like the LSx in everything but as time go's by I have become a lot more open minded about the idea of swaping anything into anything.I'm sticking with my 7MGTE but 1UZ's are bad ass.


yo SC your from jersey?what part?


p.s. guys keep the pictures,info,and debate coming

Power is power I don't care who made or what configuration the engine it as long as it does the job I require.

Guess I've always thought this as a kid I had a +60 427Ci that migrated through a bunch of different cars.

 

[GrimJack]

I've stuck with similar manufacturers just because it usually bolts up, and I suck at fabrication.

 

[mcpcola]

I want to know how to mate a R154 to a 1UZ with out spending 1500 bucks or more on hooking them together.

 

[jake breyck]

I want to know how to mate a R154 to a 1UZ with out spending 1500 bucks or more on hooking them together.

you talk to me about an adaptor plate for $350

 

[mcpcola]

Please tell me you are not kidding cause man that would be a the trick

 

[Isphius]

While we are talking about which engine is better, beside reliability, lets look at power production.....

The highest power LS1 production engine to come out of GM is 382hp and with it being a 5.7L that equates to 67.0hp per liter..

Now for the LS6 in the early Z06's, they were 405hp and were a 6.0L, this equates to 67.5hp per liter (this is also basically the same for the LS2

Now the LS3 from the 08 vette which is rated at 430hp and is a 6.2L, this equates to 69.35hp per liter

Now the production LS7 which had a highest output of 505hp and its a 7.0L, this equates to 72.1hp per liter. This is also a hand built and super fine tuned specialty engine (not a standard production engine)

And lastly we will look at the last of the 1uz's which was a standard production engine which had an output of 290hp and was 4.0L, this equates to 72.5hp per liter..

Do all that math with torque per liter. HP per liter really doesnt mean anything. Torque per liter is the true measure of efficiency. The run of the mill ls1, 62 ft lbs/L. The 1uz is about 65. Then you have a motor like the ls6(which is still 5.7 btw, not 6.0) making about 70 lbs/L. They are all very close. And, this is being done with a much more compact cam in block, pushrod design. Now also instead of comparing hp/liter(which still remains useless) compare power density(power/physical size) between the 2 engines, a very usefull number, Especially if you are doing swaps. And you have a clear advantage. Its all up to what you want and do not want to do.

Now as for the GM engineers part, I have no problem with that statement. But the engines original design was to fit in the same space a previous GENI sbc, And provide a ton of power, modularity, and flexibility in build. And i feel that they did a very good job in meeting those criteria. And LS based engines are getting so cheap its hardly not worth it to invest in an SBC anymore

 

[SC Rydah]

since were on the subject, I always wondered which had a better build from the factory or perhaps potential.. the 1UZ or the VH45DE. obviously this is a toyota forum, more specifically a supra one, yet I'd still like to know the answer.

normally I like toyota engines more. however from my days of tuning nissans, their v8's seemed amazing. [they made a bunch or racing variants (VK as well) for different series. I know toyota had a run at it as well, though I'm unsure to what level.]

I think the VH45. It was raced in F1's and/or touring I think. Powerful motor.

I must say that for years I never liked swaping motor's from other companys in a car like the LSx in everything but as time go's by I have become a lot more open minded about the idea of swaping anything into anything.I'm sticking with my 7MGTE but 1UZ's are bad ass.


yo SC your from jersey?what part?


p.s. guys keep the pictures,info,and debate coming

Newark! You?

 

[SC Rydah]

I've stuck with similar manufacturers just because it usually bolts up, and I suck at fabrication.

there you go. Plus you can't go wrong if you get equal or more power with lighter weight! But if you gotta go to another manufacturer for it, hey, do what u gotta do. I read about a Toyota Cresta gutted for drifting with a built SR20 that made over 500hp! :icon_excl

 

[Greg55_99]

I'd go with a 5.7 Mopar Hemi. Getting cheaper and available and easy to hook up to the R154.

Greg

 

[Isphius]

I'd go with a 5.7 Mopar Hemi. Getting cheaper and available and easy to hook up to the R154.

Greg

Yeah i believe dodge does use an r154 style transmission somewhere. So are the newer GM products, some of them anyway. I know the ecotec and i5 truck motor are the same bolt pattern

 

[SC Rydah]

Yeah i believe dodge does use an r154 style transmission somewhere. So are the newer GM products, some of them anyway. I know the ecotec and i5 truck motor are the same bolt pattern

I'd go with a 5.7 Mopar Hemi. Getting cheaper and available and easy to hook up to the R154.

Greg

Hmmm...sounds interesting. It'd be nice to see our motors run that one...
Amazing if they can hook up to the R154 too.

 

[Greg55_99]

Hmmm...sounds interesting. It'd be nice to see our motors run that one...
Amazing if they can hook up to the R154 too.

Yes, they can...

Greg

 

[cjsupra90]

Do all that math with torque per liter. HP per liter really doesnt mean anything. Torque per liter is the true measure of efficiency. The run of the mill ls1, 62 ft lbs/L. The 1uz is about 65. Then you have a motor like the ls6(which is still 5.7 btw, not 6.0) making about 70 lbs/L. They are all very close. And, this is being done with a much more compact cam in block, pushrod design. Now also instead of comparing hp/liter(which still remains useless) compare power density(power/physical size) between the 2 engines, a very usefull number, Especially if you are doing swaps. And you have a clear advantage. Its all up to what you want and do not want to do.

Now as for the GM engineers part, I have no problem with that statement. But the engines original design was to fit in the same space a previous GENI sbc, And provide a ton of power, modularity, and flexibility in build. And i feel that they did a very good job in meeting those criteria. And LS based engines are getting so cheap its hardly not worth it to invest in an SBC anymore

Good point (sorta)

Torque is the work done, but horsepower is how fast it will do that work... So actually we are both right in our own aguement, but both wrong in the others arguement (if that makes any sense).

Yes, torque is "a" measure of efficiency but that is only on part of the equation in the overall efficiency of the engine and how well it does what you need it to do. Compair a diesel truck engine to a formula 1 engine. The truck engine is produces a ton of torque and being diesel, its very efficient, but they cant get out of thier own way really but yes the can get a lot of weight moving. Now look at a F1 engine, it doesn't produce much torque at all, but produces a ton of horsepower. Cant really get a ton of weight moving, but it damn sure can get up an go if the weight is right...

Look at the cummings 5.9L diesel in a Dodge ram.. It produces 610ft lb so that would equate to 103.4ft lb per liter... Hmmm far more efficient then any of the engines in question, but I highly doubt that you would even for a minute think of swapping that into a supra now would you.....

Torque is not truely the measure of efficiency cause it can be changed without changing the BMEP (break means effective pressure) by increasing the stroke of the engine...

If we wanted to truely measure an engines "true" efficiency, we would have to know the BMEP of the engine as it is the "true" efficiency of the engine.

 

[IJ.]

[thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx000.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx001.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx002.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx003.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx004.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx005.jpg[/thumb]

[thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx006.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx007.jpg[/thumb][thumb]http://ij.supramania.com/lsx008.jpg[/thumb]

 

[foreverpsycotic]

Are there any PnP 1uz standalones that will be able to control an auto? I have heard that adaptronics works, but have never seen or heard of it before.

 

[Isphius]

Good point (sorta)

Torque is the work done, but horsepower is how fast it will do that work... So actually we are both right in our own aguement, but both wrong in the others arguement (if that makes any sense).......... "true" efficiency of the engine.

Well said but when you are dealing with boost and different fuels it is a different story. Torque, at its most basic, is efficiency times displacement. So if you divide the torque output by the displacement, you get a basic measurement of efficiency. That being said, i would still run a 1uz. And although the DOHC design may not add to efficiency, it allows the motor to do other things a single cam motor can not. But still a good standing argument for anyone considering a swap is a power density. You cant beat the lsx motors for that(among other v8s)

IJ - what motor is that exactly? Just an ls1? If your going for a swap might as well throw a good cam in there since youll have to mess with the electronics. 50+ hp easily and very little work

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

Are there any PnP 1uz standalones that will be able to control an auto? I have heard that adaptronics works, but have never seen or heard of it before.

You do not need a stand alone to control an automatic 340 tranny all you need is the supra auto ECT ecu and all the inputs hooked up:naughty:

because it is an external ecu independent of the efi ECU for example I can buy a 1UZ and swap it into my 1997 4runner with a BHG 3.4ltr 5VZ because the both use the 340 tranny but one is 4wd

How you do this is only use 3 of the selenoid outputs from the 1uz ecu hook them up, since the 5vz uses 4 of them one of them is smooth shift selenoid you actually dont have to hook it up. All you need to swap in is the 1uz lexus gs hydralic pump & imput shaft bell housing flex plate & torque converter makes it bolt on afair.

I was worried also about the auto but you can use either ECU the supra one or the 1uz one to shift your 340.

 

[IJ.]

IJ - what motor is that exactly? Just an ls1? If your going for a swap might as well throw a good cam in there since youll have to mess with the electronics. 50+ hp easily and very little work

It's an L98, they're a GenIV evo LS that's 6.0L.

No need for a cam

 

[zSP3CTERz]

wheres the place to go to get a used V8? i wouldnt mind trying it in the future