Turbo Carnage! / Upgrade Discussion

[IJ.]

That's why I'd like to see the internals they will usually provide a clue why they're dying, no way known would I be throwing another Turbo at it at this point though, 1 shit happens, 2 something is suspect, 3 STOP you're doing it wrong

Did you do a return volume check?
(Idle with the Drain into a can)

 

[theKnifeArtist]

I have the turbo off on a bench at work. Ill split it apart and take a couple pictures.
Please elaborate on the return volume test.

 

[IJ.]

It's mainly just to verify that you have flow there but you can calculate the volume/pressure at the turbo inlt then compare it to the output timed over a minute, modern BB turbo's have made this much more difficult as they have tiny internal restrictors so you need to know their size.

 

[toyotanos]

Ian's got it right.
I have a .016" restrictor for my brand new Comp Turbo TBB. It's crazy nuts what the BB turbos need (or don't need) for oiling.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Although I agree with Ian's comments on oil pressure & return, Id like to see the guts of the turbocharger itself. This will tell me more about what happened inside. Just from looking now, either the shaft itself was at the end of its cycle life, the wheel failed either due to casting, FOD, imbalance, or high cycle fatigue.

 

[IJ.]

That's why I'd like to see the internals they will usually provide a clue why they're dying, no way known would I be throwing another Turbo at it at this point though, 1 shit happens, 2 something is suspect, 3 STOP you're doing it wrong

Did you do a return volume check?
(Idle with the Drain into a can)

Although I agree with Ian's comments on oil pressure & return, Id like to see the guts of the turbocharger itself. This will tell me more about what happened inside. Just from looking now, either the shaft itself was at the end of its cycle life, the wheel failed either due to casting, FOD, imbalance, or high cycle fatigue.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Dam it old man. Showing us young wippersnappers up again.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

OK So,
-Removed the old turbo. took it apart some, although i don't know if you can see anything there.
-Removed the charge pipes from the turbo to the intercooler. Found a little bit of turbo debris there.
-Removed the intercooler, tilted towards the hot side, spilled out a bunch of compressor wheel there.
-Shook it out as much as i could. Intercooler was flushed out with water a couple times, then smoke pressure tested afterwards, looks good.
-Looked into the cold side charge pipes, found one small bit down on the lowest point. Blew out with compressed air downstream.
-Checked 3000 pipe, clean.
-Removed Oil return and feed, lined, checked for obstructions, OK
-Looked into ports with boroscope, nothing helpful to see.
-Performed synthetic oil change.

-Checking Oil Pressure.
Removed EFI fuse, cranked about 6 seconds each time, had nothing coming out the oil FEED.,
Reinstalled EFI fuse, had it turn over for a second, as soon as the RPMs bump up, i have full flow(visually) at the oil Feed.
I thought i was supposed to have oil pressure at crank, Am I?
I got the replacement stock turbo, it will go on this week if everything is well.

N/A Bay

Gotta take it apart more?

Oil feed after 2 2second runs

Return port, nothing to see..

Testing the IC

stock replacement

 

[MDCmotorsports]

If the turbo is under warranty, send it back so the company can see what happened. If its not under warranty, tear that thing completely down and show us what the bearings like.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

The guy that sold me the car had the turbo on it. It's got like 12K on it, but i don't think i can claim any warranty here.

Do I just take the center nut off? How would i do that with the compressor wheel broken off, hah

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Take that snap ring off of the little aluminum plate on the front of the bearing housing. Remove the front seal plate. Remove guts. Push turbine shaft out the back of the bearing housing.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

I will dissect it further once i get a second to look at my own car.

As far as the oil pressure concern, is this normal operation?

 

[MDCmotorsports]

If the oil system has sat, or has open ports to atmosphere, all the oil will drain back to the pan. So yes, what you saw was normal. Typically when priming a turbo, after pulling the efi fuse, you'll crank the car 5-8 times before seeing propper oil flow.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

PICTURE UPDATE!
I took the turbo apart and took these pictures a while ago.. i haven't had time for anything lately, so i'm posting it now.

This is what caught my eye. It looks like long term wear. Hmm


And also, i put my stock CT on my car. Put about 30 miles on it but it's still hanging around the shop until i fix a little oil leak. Not a big fan of working with Earl..
Other than that its running just fine.:icon_bigg
Stock turbo on stock boost, heh soo much fun.:icon_lol:

 

[theKnifeArtist]

lost interest?

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Im going to rule this one out as compressor wheel failure or FOD damage to the compressor wheel. Turbo shaft appears to have had oil pressure. What does the trust stack look like?

 

[theKnifeArtist]

What is FOD damage?
what is a thrust stack?
is it on the lower part of the shaft on picture one?
What do you think about that last picture?

 

[IJ.]

What is FOD damage?
what is a thrust stack?
is it on the lower part of the shaft on picture one?
What do you think about that last picture?

It's a bit like an ATM Machine

FOD= Foreign Object Damage ie: Sucked something into the Compressor or spat out part of the engine into the Turbine Wheel.

The Thrust is usually a Brass looking plate with a machined section in the middle that sets the end play of the Turbo Wheels/shaft.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Here's what I think happened:

-FOD got sucked into the compressor wheel, or the compressor wheel started coming part
-This caused an out of balance condition, at a high rate of speed
-The speed of the turbine wheel, and the out of balance of the compressor wheel bent the shaft
-The shaft snapped
-Turbo went kaboom

That last picture that you posted? I think its the bearing melting to the out of balance turbine shaft @ 100,000 rpms.

The thrust stack should be thrust bearing and thrust collar, under the front seal plate & snap ring. (Would be on the nose of the turbine shaft and under the compressor wheel)