Turbo A half cut :cry:
- Thread starter Silent Smith
- Start date
dont wanna seem like an 'elitist' lol
so whats the diffrence between a group A supra and a turbo A
Both the 1jz and 7m are nice motors both make alot of power just wait till 1jz guys get over 130,000 then well see the problems and some 1jz rebuild threads.
Both the 1jz and 7m are nice motors both make alot of power just wait till 1jz guys get over 130,000 then well see the problems and some 1jz rebuild threads.
I dont know why i even bother, but screw it. You do realize comparing a 7M to a JZ powerplant is like comparing a KA to a RB26, a LT1 to a LS2, a D-series to a B18. a 318 to a 426Maxwedge. sure both engines can be made fast. but certain motors are built better suited for performance.
And trust me ive built up both. Ive had my hands in a 11sec 7M motor and a 800hp 1j. That fully built 7M just threw a rod. it ran great up until that point too. Displacement isnt everything. there is a big word that doesnt seem to be throw around enough, Efficiency. And the 7M isnt efficient. your fighting the basic design of the motor to make power, instead of working with it. The only thing the 7M has going for it is availability of parts and a longer stroke. Its a torque monster and i loved every second of it when i had it. but after driving a 1j powered car. you notice immediately the fundamental differance between the two motors. Refinement. the 1j is smooth, quiet, and makes power effortlessly. The 7M sounds like its fighting itself just to rev past 5K.
But to each his own. My brother has ridden in my car, and wants a 1j. but he got a taste of the 7M and is sticking with it. maybe he likes a challange? or that wonderful power curve? either way to each his own. if you like the 7m and want to fight your way to a rodknock, so be it. but if you havent modded, worked on, or driven both, you have no basis for argument. and have only seen one side of the argument.
And trust me ive built up both. Ive had my hands in a 11sec 7M motor and a 800hp 1j. That fully built 7M just threw a rod. it ran great up until that point too. Displacement isnt everything. there is a big word that doesnt seem to be throw around enough, Efficiency. And the 7M isnt efficient. your fighting the basic design of the motor to make power, instead of working with it. The only thing the 7M has going for it is availability of parts and a longer stroke. Its a torque monster and i loved every second of it when i had it. but after driving a 1j powered car. you notice immediately the fundamental differance between the two motors. Refinement. the 1j is smooth, quiet, and makes power effortlessly. The 7M sounds like its fighting itself just to rev past 5K.
But to each his own. My brother has ridden in my car, and wants a 1j. but he got a taste of the 7M and is sticking with it. maybe he likes a challange? or that wonderful power curve? either way to each his own. if you like the 7m and want to fight your way to a rodknock, so be it. but if you havent modded, worked on, or driven both, you have no basis for argument. and have only seen one side of the argument.
supradan22 said:
its just that simple, huh dan?---just out with the old, and drop in a 1jz?
:nono:
j/p
SupraRacer said:
hah youre only fighting your way to a rodknock if youre fighting to keep oil out of the engine.
supradan22 said:
That's what I plan to do, either that or I'm going to build a 1J Soarer :naughty:
Wow, did'nt think I'd see as much response on this thread as I have. I'm going over some of the specifics/details with the seller and I could have the half cut on it's way early next week. The Turbo as does'nt share parts with the group a motors right? magnesium pan, cam gears and cams...
Having never driven a 1J powered car I can't give a real comment on it but let's not bring the Honda D series into it, Thats too low a blow. Updating electronics should bring the 7m into the newer age, not going to deny that it's dated but it was still advanced for it's time.
Having never driven a 1J powered car I can't give a real comment on it but let's not bring the Honda D series into it, Thats too low a blow. Updating electronics should bring the 7m into the newer age, not going to deny that it's dated but it was still advanced for it's time.
Seriously post pictures as soon as you get this clip. id love to see that.
the honda D series is the popular choice for turbocharging. its back to basics. 8 valve, simple motors. id think the KA would be more of an insult.
And no your fighting to mod a motor only to get a rodknock. so your fighting your way to a rodknock.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE the 7m. but there is alot you have to modify to make them reliable. (new oil pump from toyota, bend the pickup down, replace the crossover hardpipe with braided line, clevite 77 bearings, forged pistons, lap lathed head and block, Greddy MHG, ARP head bolts) and then you have a reliable stock motor. you build it up to a motor that is still not as reliable as a stock 1j motor. 20psi of oil pressure at IDLE, mhg factory, basically you are comparing a motor that was designed for boost, to a motor that boost was an after-thought.
the honda D series is the popular choice for turbocharging. its back to basics. 8 valve, simple motors. id think the KA would be more of an insult.
And no your fighting to mod a motor only to get a rodknock. so your fighting your way to a rodknock.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE the 7m. but there is alot you have to modify to make them reliable. (new oil pump from toyota, bend the pickup down, replace the crossover hardpipe with braided line, clevite 77 bearings, forged pistons, lap lathed head and block, Greddy MHG, ARP head bolts) and then you have a reliable stock motor. you build it up to a motor that is still not as reliable as a stock 1j motor. 20psi of oil pressure at IDLE, mhg factory, basically you are comparing a motor that was designed for boost, to a motor that boost was an after-thought.
if the 7mgte has lasted since 87 and some just need minor repairs or a HG. i think thats pretty damn reliable. the more u mod the less reliable anything gets. thats just how it is
How many 7M failures were caused by the incorrect head bolt torque settings which in turn let the Heads anneal (go soft) causing yet more issues down the track?
There isn't a Cast Iron Block Aluminium Head motor out there that would withstand this treatment then toss in tight owners that refuse to run Coolant and you get Errosion causing yet more problems.......
The 7M cops an unfair rap as being a badly designed motor when it's actually a very well thought out one.
There isn't a Cast Iron Block Aluminium Head motor out there that would withstand this treatment then toss in tight owners that refuse to run Coolant and you get Errosion causing yet more problems.......
The 7M cops an unfair rap as being a badly designed motor when it's actually a very well thought out one.
True, but it only lasts because some of us decide to maintain it. Jay leno has cars over 80 years old, but we dont use their technology anymore because we have updated it. Would you call his cars reliable? NO Some are hanging on by a thread.
FYI both engines = good
/conflict.
eric
FYI both engines = good
/conflict.
eric
Must be a local thing, I've yet to see or hear about a D series doing anything worth mentioning other then a nitrous backfire. I've seen people attempt modding them and defending them only to move to a B or K series months later because they could'nt get the power they wanted. 8valve throw back is a neat idea but honda's strength is in the flow of the 16 valve heads and vtec among other things. Must be like the people that build a turbo type R motor by lowering the mechanical compression only to raise it back up with boost....
You would'nt happen to have a link about the ss oil line replacement
Do 1J's feel that much different, I understand it's TT and shorter stroke so I'm asuming it rev's more willingly,
there is no link to the SS line. its just a trick a local guy does. it frees up flow.
Also you can cruise around at 3-4K rpm and not even realize your doing it. The one downfall to the 1j is trying to get decent gas mileage is a FPITA. you can test your patience very simply, just by driving it around without boosting. try keeping the needle under 5lbs of vacume. youll drive yourself crazy. it was much easier to keep the 7M under 10lbs.
EDIT: also there is a guy here that has a T4 powered crx, he custom built his tranny, basically chose what gears he wanted from other honda trannies, and swapped them in. but he runs into the 12's on DR's and walked a local pullied 04 Cobra. he has roughly $2500 invested including the price of the car. If i can remember correctly the prices. $800 for the car, $150 for an ebay IC, exhaust piping for the IC pipes, $600 for a used T4, $300 for a Turbo manifold, $150 for the clutch, $200 for the S-afc. hell it gives my car a run for its money. from a 50 punch.
Also you can cruise around at 3-4K rpm and not even realize your doing it. The one downfall to the 1j is trying to get decent gas mileage is a FPITA. you can test your patience very simply, just by driving it around without boosting. try keeping the needle under 5lbs of vacume. youll drive yourself crazy. it was much easier to keep the 7M under 10lbs.
EDIT: also there is a guy here that has a T4 powered crx, he custom built his tranny, basically chose what gears he wanted from other honda trannies, and swapped them in. but he runs into the 12's on DR's and walked a local pullied 04 Cobra. he has roughly $2500 invested including the price of the car. If i can remember correctly the prices. $800 for the car, $150 for an ebay IC, exhaust piping for the IC pipes, $600 for a used T4, $300 for a Turbo manifold, $150 for the clutch, $200 for the S-afc. hell it gives my car a run for its money. from a 50 punch.
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