torque specs

[jdub]

75 ft/lbs (w/ moly)...ARP spec for bolts on an aluminum head

 

[Nick M]

Actually Nick, it's the opposite:

Force X Distance = Torque

If you lengthen the handle (say with a metal tube), you'll have to calculate the correct torque value:

C = D(A/A+B)

A = length of torque wrench
B = length of adapter (metal tube)
C = torque wrench setting
D = desired torque at wrench head (socket)

The "twist" using a socket extension is negligible.

No. You might have misread what I wrote. A longer handle will make more torque, that is what I said. The longer sockets and extenions on the socket will remove torque. The longer the extension, the more it loses.

 

[eman2289]

(Where do you guys come up with this stuff...MHG thickness, extensions, etc ?!?)

Thats why I posted it in a question format and said "Am I correct to say". I had heard something about it before, I just was not sure if my recollection was correct.

 

[Nick M]

Saying that 400 ft/lbs of torque applied to one end of a 4 ft extension will only amount to 75 lbs on the other end defies Newtonian physics.

Surely you have removed bellhousing bolts. Because that is a great example. A 1/2 Snap-On or IR with 500 lb/ft in reverse with my 4 foot extension from Snap-on has had trouble with bolts that stuck from old age or too tight. But if you can reach with long arms like I have, I can loosen them with a long wrench, and much less torque than the impact. The 4 foot extension is an exageration that makes a good point.

 

[hunka13]

75 ft/lbs (w/ moly)...ARP spec for bolts on an aluminum head

where do you get the moly lube ( special name ? ) or is it the same shit i used to break cams in with

 

[WhtMa71]

Its the moly lube supplied with ARP fasteners, made by ARP. You can probably order some from them or maybe from Summit. Im not sure on Summit though.

 

[IwantMKIII]

No. You might have misread what I wrote. A longer handle will make more torque, that is what I said. The longer sockets and extenions on the socket will remove torque. The longer the extension, the more it loses.

You're confusing the concept of torque and energy.

True, it takes work to twist off a bolt and any energy you put into it must go somewhere. In this case, not ALL the energy will be transferred to directly removing the bolt. Some of the energy will be absorbed by the longer extension because it will act similar to a spring. However, in the case of torque, any torque in = torque out on a single shaft regaurdless of shaft length and its angular twist

 

[jdub]

Basically correct...once the force of the torque wrench, regardless of the head extension length, over comes the resistance of the bolt sufficiently to click the wrench (or indicate on a dial), that is the torque transferred to the bolt.

 

[starscream5000]

Or, if the bolt doesn't move and the extension continues to twist and finally meets the preset torque, it will still "click", giving an inacurrate reading, an I right in thinking this?

 

[IwantMKIII]

Or, if the bolt doesn't move and the extension continues to twist and finally meets the preset torque, it will still "click", giving an inacurrate reading, an I right in thinking this?

input torque will still be transferred to the bolt and have the same output torque.

your are inputing just as much as the bolt is resisting reguardless of twist. The actual drawback and any inaccuracies that would be present actually only involves friction, hence lube can be used and torque can be increased

edit: friction may not even be a factor if the bolt company factored that in within reason, but friction changes from application to application so there will be minor indescrepencies

 

[rumptis]

The only way you are going to loose effectiveness in using extensions is if there is some other side force getting in the way like (Friction). If you twist an 200 foot extension with 500 ft/lbs at one end you will see the same force at the other end as long as there nothing in between causing friction.

Its Newtons 3rd law of motion: "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

 

[Bigdough666]

105 ft/lbs is if you use 30wt oil for lube instead of the ARP Moly or Sealer.

Thats where mine are at.

 

[starscream5000]

The only way you are going to loose effectiveness in using extensions is if there is some other side force getting in the way like (Friction). If you twist an 200 foot extension with 500 ft/lbs at one end you will see the same force at the other end as long as there nothing in between causing friction.

Its Newtons 3rd law of motion: "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

So, theoretically speaking, you aren't loosing any of the torque in the twisting section of the extension, and the torque being applied at the top of the extension makes it all the way down to the bottom, regarless of length, without loosing any torque in the twisted section?

 

[IwantMKIII]

You're confusing the concept of torque and energy.

True, it takes work to twist off a bolt and any energy you put into it must go somewhere. In this case, not ALL the energy will be transferred to directly removing the bolt. Some of the energy will be absorbed by the longer extension because it will act similar to a spring. However, in the case of torque, any torque in = torque out on a single shaft regaurdless of shaft length and its angular twist

Or, if the bolt doesn't move and the extension continues to twist and finally meets the preset torque, it will still "click", giving an inacurrate reading, an I right in thinking this?

input torque will still be transferred to the bolt and have the same output torque.

your are inputing just as much as the bolt is resisting reguardless of twist. The actual drawback and any inaccuracies that would be present actually only involves friction, hence lube can be used and torque can be increased

edit: friction may not even be a factor if the bolt company factored that in within reason, but friction changes from application to application so there will be minor indescrepencies

So, theoretically speaking, you aren't loosing any of the torque in the twisting section of the extension, and the torque being applied at the top of the extension makes it all the way down to the bottom, regarless of length, without loosing any torque in the twisted section?

read posts above :icon_bigg . No torque will be lost until the shaft has reached its yeild point in which case it would more than likely break shrotly thereafter anyway

 

[rumptis]

Are you talking about swivel?

If so that could cause Friction just like a u-joint would. the more angle on the swivel the more friction there will be and the less torque would make it to the end of whatever it is you are working with.

 

[starscream5000]

Ah, I learn something today.

Of course, if you're twisting an extension by torquing it, it will soon yeild.

Sorry, had a slow moment earlier today .

 

[IwantMKIII]

Ah, I learn something today.

Of course, if you're twisting an extension by torquing it, it will soon yeild.

Sorry, had a slow moment earlier today .

technically everytime you use and extension of any length and torque it, there will be some degree of twist :icon_bigg its just that most of the time its negligible

 

[IwantMKIII]

Are you talking about swivel?

If so that could cause Friction just like a u-joint would. the more angle on the swivel the more friction there will be and the less torque would make it to the end of whatever it is you are working with.

friction between the threads and material you're bolting into...Us is larger than Uk, so it takes more torque to overcome Us in order to actually get into kinetic friction...therefore torque will drop after Us is broken