But if it's not sealed it will seep to the outside world as that part of the timing case is dry normally being on the other side of the gasket when assembled.
To cap or not to cap (PCV related)::Leak down 10/24/09l::
- Thread starter MA70Snowman
- Start date
dumbo;1402149 said:
Well guys quick update, I haven't had much time to tinker on it. I went through one last time. put the timing chain on. warmed up the engine. saw no leaks. total run time maybe 20 minutes. temp was around 180 coolant oil got to about 125-135.
I havne't had much time after that wife went into labor yesterday So we've been juggling that. probably won't have time till this weekend. any other thoughts or suggestions?
IJ.;1403895 said:Damn women no sense of priorities !!
Hope it all went well for her!
lol you're telling me.
She wakes me up at 430am and demands I drive her to the hospital. We're going and she's in pain, saying " can't you go faster"
"Well.. I could've babe if I had the Supra" :evil2:
Back from the dead.. and still banging my head against the wall.
Finally got a chance to go out and tinker on the car now that the baby is settling in.
Here's some updates:
*Napa sent me a bloody compression tester. So no lead down test.
*I put a UV reactive dye in my motor oil to try and pin point the leak and to be able to tell 100% if its powersteering fluid or motor oil.
*Replaced the o-ring on my CPS so no more leak there
*replaced the Camshaft seals w/ Toyota OEM, put FIPG around the seals and put them in.
*I put the car together. sprayed down the engine bay w/ degreaser. let it sit and washed it all off.
*started the car up. let it run for approx 30 mins.. NOTHING.. not a DROP!
*revved the engine a couple times..nothing
*ran it at 2000/3000 for about 5 minutes each.. nothing. (see a trend?)
*drove it around the block.. nothing.
*around the neighborhood I did two 2nd-3rd gear pulls at about 6-8psi. SMOKE!!!!!
-got home and oil EVERY.. EVERY.. EVERYWHERE X_X and the streak is back on the top of my hood in the same place. i ran my uv light across the bay.. and it glows orange.. so its motor oil. problem is its everywhere.. so the UV dye isn't really helping me find the leak.
I"m really at a freakin loss here. It can't be oil PSI related as I would think reving/or holding it at 3000 rpms would've forced it out somewhere. and this ONLY started after installing the PCV system.
IF anyone is in the Oceanside, CA area.. feel free to swing on down for a case of beer.. err I mean take a look at the car.
Finally got a chance to go out and tinker on the car now that the baby is settling in.
Here's some updates:
*Napa sent me a bloody compression tester. So no lead down test.
*I put a UV reactive dye in my motor oil to try and pin point the leak and to be able to tell 100% if its powersteering fluid or motor oil.
*Replaced the o-ring on my CPS so no more leak there
*replaced the Camshaft seals w/ Toyota OEM, put FIPG around the seals and put them in.
*I put the car together. sprayed down the engine bay w/ degreaser. let it sit and washed it all off.
*started the car up. let it run for approx 30 mins.. NOTHING.. not a DROP!
*revved the engine a couple times..nothing
*ran it at 2000/3000 for about 5 minutes each.. nothing. (see a trend?)
*drove it around the block.. nothing.
*around the neighborhood I did two 2nd-3rd gear pulls at about 6-8psi. SMOKE!!!!!
-got home and oil EVERY.. EVERY.. EVERYWHERE X_X and the streak is back on the top of my hood in the same place. i ran my uv light across the bay.. and it glows orange.. so its motor oil. problem is its everywhere.. so the UV dye isn't really helping me find the leak.
I"m really at a freakin loss here. It can't be oil PSI related as I would think reving/or holding it at 3000 rpms would've forced it out somewhere. and this ONLY started after installing the PCV system.
IF anyone is in the Oceanside, CA area.. feel free to swing on down for a case of beer.. err I mean take a look at the car.
I read your thread.
Heres a problem I had on two cars. One mine and one I did a swap in.
First I ran a catch can (Im a old school musclecar guy). Didnt realize these cars needed vacuum on pcv to work correctly. So I ran it similar to yours. Still same problem. I ended up running stock system and dumping the catch can. BUT I plugged the port before the turbo. Just ran in the throttle body. A few months later, same problem. Now under high boost or normal driving it would not smoke. It would smoke after a hard pull THEN letting off throttle it looked like I was fogging for mosquitos. I thought seals went out of turbo. So I rebuilt it. Still the same. Finally I hooked up the hose in front of turbo. NO more smoking.
Second: I did a GTE swap in a na car for someone. His started doing the same thing. But his problem was the port on the throttle body was plugged. Now when I say plugged, it still pulled vacuum. Just not enough. These get very clogged no matter how clean the motor is. 87-88 are worse because the port makes a sharp 90 degree bend. 89-92 are radiused.
First thing I would do is clean the throttle body port. Its hard to do because its almost impossible to get a small brush to make the bend. Plus you need to clean it from both sides (meaning you will need to pull the throttle body off). Use throttle body cleaner or carb cleaner and a brush. I used a small scribe to try and break it up also. Pull the hose off the port and stick a small screwdriver in it to see if anyhting is in there. I can pretty much guarantee it will need some cleaning. REMEMBER even if you feel vacuum on it, doesnt mean its not plugged or restricted. Use air too. It took me some time to get it good.
Second I would put the pcv system back to stock without catchcan just to eliminate any possibilities. I kknow your leaking oil somewhere too, but if there isnt enough vacuum on the pcv system you will blow seals. Check the J tube (or blockoff plate) plate for leaks also.
One thing I learned from trouble shooting over the many years of building cars is start with the obvious. This problem started after the pcv system change. So eliminate ALL possibilities there first. I drove my car for a year smoking and I also chewed out the guy at Performance Techniques thinking they did a shoddy job on my turbo.
So to recap: CLEAN the throttle body port from both sides and make sure there is good air flow thru it when done. AND make sure your pcv system is hooked to the port before the turbo too.
Hope this helps
Rich
Heres a problem I had on two cars. One mine and one I did a swap in.
First I ran a catch can (Im a old school musclecar guy). Didnt realize these cars needed vacuum on pcv to work correctly. So I ran it similar to yours. Still same problem. I ended up running stock system and dumping the catch can. BUT I plugged the port before the turbo. Just ran in the throttle body. A few months later, same problem. Now under high boost or normal driving it would not smoke. It would smoke after a hard pull THEN letting off throttle it looked like I was fogging for mosquitos. I thought seals went out of turbo. So I rebuilt it. Still the same. Finally I hooked up the hose in front of turbo. NO more smoking.
Second: I did a GTE swap in a na car for someone. His started doing the same thing. But his problem was the port on the throttle body was plugged. Now when I say plugged, it still pulled vacuum. Just not enough. These get very clogged no matter how clean the motor is. 87-88 are worse because the port makes a sharp 90 degree bend. 89-92 are radiused.
First thing I would do is clean the throttle body port. Its hard to do because its almost impossible to get a small brush to make the bend. Plus you need to clean it from both sides (meaning you will need to pull the throttle body off). Use throttle body cleaner or carb cleaner and a brush. I used a small scribe to try and break it up also. Pull the hose off the port and stick a small screwdriver in it to see if anyhting is in there. I can pretty much guarantee it will need some cleaning. REMEMBER even if you feel vacuum on it, doesnt mean its not plugged or restricted. Use air too. It took me some time to get it good.
Second I would put the pcv system back to stock without catchcan just to eliminate any possibilities. I kknow your leaking oil somewhere too, but if there isnt enough vacuum on the pcv system you will blow seals. Check the J tube (or blockoff plate) plate for leaks also.
One thing I learned from trouble shooting over the many years of building cars is start with the obvious. This problem started after the pcv system change. So eliminate ALL possibilities there first. I drove my car for a year smoking and I also chewed out the guy at Performance Techniques thinking they did a shoddy job on my turbo.
So to recap: CLEAN the throttle body port from both sides and make sure there is good air flow thru it when done. AND make sure your pcv system is hooked to the port before the turbo too.
Hope this helps
Rich
dragracer;1425912 said:
okay i'm bored and frustrated so tearing my car apart will make me feel better. I'll check the TB while I'm hoping for other replies.
The jtube/block off is clean. that whole side of the engine is dry.
My engine is SOAKED in the front. and damp under neath the CPS on down. and dry from there back. minus the lower part of the engine (pan and exhuast) which are damp from what I assume is oil being blown down there while driving.
I don't know and this may sound dumb. And when you try another hard pull. A way to find out where the oil is coming from, wrap a sheet or 2 of paper towel around all oil connections and secure it with a zip-tie.
If you have a check valve in your system, is it working, is it facing the right way? < not to say you dont know whats what. Are the ports in the cam covers clogged. The throttle body ports are easily clogged as mentioned above. I recently removed mine (pre 89) and it was constricted by funk and junk. I didn't realize that post 89 were radius bends, that seems like a better idea.
Also check the oil cooler, as it might be leaking and the air flow might be pulling it into your fan. Im not hip on your setup but this has me thinking too.
Also check the oil cooler, as it might be leaking and the air flow might be pulling it into your fan. Im not hip on your setup but this has me thinking too.
Yblegal91t;1425920 said:
This might work if I were to put some plastic wrap or something aorund the paper towel. otherwise it could just end up saturated and you wouldn't be able to tellw here it came from
Txsupra;1425923 said:
The check valve and ports were addressed earlier in this topic (yeah its alot to read I don't blame you for skimming)
The oilcooler/lines were my first culprit but all them are solid.
Now here's some food for thought and I"m hoping some of the uber gurus could chime in.
THe purpose of the PCV is to SUPPLY vacuum to the system. Pre PCV installation. no smoke.. that means I had ZERO vacuum on the PCV. and after installation I'm smoking. even IF.. IF.. it was due to restricted vacuum.. why would too little vacuum cause me to smoke over NO vacuum? thats of course this all even PCV related or just a huge coincidence... tomorrow I'm going to a) remove the PCV system. see how that does b) remove the Catch can from the system. honestly I'm hoping to see no change in behavior as that'll just mean its a phantom freakin' leak that I can't find as opposed to a quirky PCV system.
PCV system thats not hooked to vacuum will create too much crankcase pressure. Which results in blowby thru rings, valves, seals.
I know where your coming from. I dealt with my issue for a while.
Your thinking before I had no pcv system hooked up it didnt smoke/leak. Mine didnt either, but eventually it did and will.
You just need to start somewhere and 100% eliminate that as the problem.
I feel your pain.:icon_mad:
Rich
I know where your coming from. I dealt with my issue for a while.
Your thinking before I had no pcv system hooked up it didnt smoke/leak. Mine didnt either, but eventually it did and will.
You just need to start somewhere and 100% eliminate that as the problem.
I feel your pain.:icon_mad:
Rich
WEll I removed the Catch Can and the PCV valve, and cleaned the TB. Let it warm up to Operating temps and took it around the block. okay fine nothing. as usual. then did another trip around the block and boosted 2-3 times. Everytime after I left off the throttle in boost. WOOSH... smoke.. got home popped the hood to look at it. and there's smoke on the front of the engine bay... but. not AS MUCH as before. either I"m running low on oil or it actually did something. I think later I will try and remove the PCV all together again and see where I'm at. I just can't honestly believe that its "restricing" it enough to cause these symptoms. because At worst its running better then stock. and as my setup sits now I've got a mild tune I"m only hitting 6 psi... thats below stock settings. so I can't imagine my engine demanding more then stock.
I know that when that when the seals leak from a malfunctioning pcv, they take a few weeks to quit leaking. Even when the problem was corrected.
Did you remove the TB to clean both sides? If not you should. I stuck a small screwdriver in there turning it and kept getting junk out of it while cleaning with cleaner for over an hour.
You can also remove the oil fill cap and see if you have GOOD suction there while the pcv is hooked up correctly. Because your valve cover ports could be restricted. I know you said they had fumes coming out. But that doesnt necessarily mean theyre not restricted. Those can get clogged pretty easy. Plus theyre a pain to clear out.
Just make sure the tb port is cleared out. Once that is for sure clear. Maybe drive it a few days without boosting to see if it changes. But we are assuming a seal is leaking. It would be nice to know exactly where the leak is from. If it were the lower front crank seal, you would have oil all over the timing belt.
Good luck
Rich
Did you remove the TB to clean both sides? If not you should. I stuck a small screwdriver in there turning it and kept getting junk out of it while cleaning with cleaner for over an hour.
You can also remove the oil fill cap and see if you have GOOD suction there while the pcv is hooked up correctly. Because your valve cover ports could be restricted. I know you said they had fumes coming out. But that doesnt necessarily mean theyre not restricted. Those can get clogged pretty easy. Plus theyre a pain to clear out.
Just make sure the tb port is cleared out. Once that is for sure clear. Maybe drive it a few days without boosting to see if it changes. But we are assuming a seal is leaking. It would be nice to know exactly where the leak is from. If it were the lower front crank seal, you would have oil all over the timing belt.
Good luck
Rich
dragracer;1427196 said:
yes the TB was removed. There was no gunk visible. I did spray the crap out of it w/ carb cleaner. fed a wire through the ITTTY BITTY hole thats in there (comming from the back side) and I took some wire Pipe cleaners from my pipe cleaning kit and ran those through the front port. it was clan.
The valve covers are clean and clear also.
As I mentioned. EVERYTHING I could get my hands on during the assembly and disassembly were sand blasted, soaked, washed, blown out, dried. and powder coated. Thats both the TB and the Valve covers.
If it were the front crank seal as is usually the culprit you're right I would have oil on my timing belt. however for the first time. it was dryer then the other two. and this time was barely damp. as mentioned earlier in the post the inside of the timing cover was relatively dry compared to everything else.
and I honestly hate to drive it for a week, or so.. HOPEING the problem goes away.. just to say oh.. a weeks up.. ::BOOST:: .. ::SMOKE:: lol. I"d totally throw a wrench at my car at this point in time. HOwever I might take it just to go to and from work... nothing to loose.
When you mention pulling off the oil cap and feeling for "GOOD" suction. we talkin' at idle? or what type of rpm should I be trying this. and what are we talking for "good" suction in the crank case?
MA70Snowman;1425981 said:
I still don't know why you wouldn't try this. It seems you are still unsure where it's even coming from and upon boost you claim to have oil spraying everywhere or enough still that you wouldn't be able to locate it.
Yblegal91t;1427493 said:
I didn't say I wouldn't try it. I just said if it were to be done thats how it would have to be done to prevent it from being soaked.
However A leaky oil line, doesn't fit the description. I can take my engine up to 4k and hold it there in my drive way and I get nothing. so that eliminates an oil pressure related issue in my opinion. RPMS rise.. Oil pressure rises.. oil pressure gets to be high enough that its forced out of any "leaky" areas.
The only time that I've been able to continually replicate an issue. Is when Boosting and then comming out of boost It smokes. That is a symptom and the issue.
Trust me I would love to find one of my lines bad. But the symptoms just don't fit.
All in all this is a PITA and a very weird issue.
Poodles;1428096 said:
Compression is good. I'm sitting on 150ish across the 6 cylinders. I had tried to get a leak down tool from NAPA, and they sent me a Compressions tester and everyone else I talk to has no Idea what I"m talking about. and for the next couple months paying to tow, and paying a shop to run the test, and paying to tow it back are currently not in my budget.