To cap or not to cap (PCV related)::Leak down 10/24/09l::

[MA70Snowman]

Well.. NOw i've got another problem. I'm wondering if this is PCV related.

Now i've got my PCV system installed correctly w/ a CC and a one way check valve. I got a good tune on it. Idle was smooth. tip-in/out was a clean transition. and AFRs held at 14.4. SO I took the car for a drive. was running GREAT!!! drove about 5 miles, to get a feel. So i found a nice road and did a quick pull.

I got to 2nd gear w/ about 8 PSI and and started smoking crazy!!! I got home and I've got a line of oil across the top of the hood above the timing cover. oil all over my belts fan radiator and everything else in that vicinity.

Easily guessing a seal blew, I did the oil pump and main and I know i put FIPG around each seal to make sure they would stay. so I don't know which it is yet.

The question is WHY would I blow a seal w/ a "Good PCV" system when I did not have this issue w/o a PCV system installed before? THIS really bothers me, I'd hate to fix the seals just to have this again. I checked my One way valves.. the one comming off the TB port is set to allow air to flow TO the throttle body but not OUT of the throttle body (preventing boost from entering the PCV system) and the only other valve I could find. not relevant was the Master break cylinders and thats plumbed correctly as well.

INPUT greatly requested before I tear into this. Thanks guys.

 

[jdub]

Can you take a pic of your PCV system?

Who made the seals you used on the motor?

 

[MA70Snowman]

Can you take a pic of your PCV system?

Who made the seals you used on the motor?

I ordered the Seals from Toyota. I'll get a picture back in a second.

PICS UP:

 

[jdub]

Here's what I see:
- Line from the valve covers to the can...straight line with nothing in it.
- Line between the accordion hose and TB...T in the middle going to the can.
- Cant' see it, but you said there's a PCV valve between the T and the TB allowing flow TO the TB only.

Just checking to be sure...it looks correct. Is there anything I missed in any of the lines?

Did you happen to notice if the dipstick popped out of it's holder when it sprayed oil all over?

 

[MA70Snowman]

Here's what I see:
- Line from the valve covers to the can...straight line with nothing in it.
- Line between the accordion hose and TB...T in the middle going to the can.
- Cant' see it, but you said there's a PCV valve between the T and the TB allowing flow TO the TB only.

Just checking to be sure...it looks correct. Is there anything I missed in any of the lines?

Did you happen to notice if the dipstick popped out of it's holder when it sprayed oil all over?

What you saw was correct. If you look above the blue 3000/TB coupler the left clamp there is the Check valve its a blue/black piece.

The Dip stick did NOT pop out. Because of the way I bent the pipe to get it to fit. it Jams in there pretty good. It takes some pretty good force for me to get it out.

 

[jdub]

Well...the PCV is probably not it. Could easily be a coincidence...check to see what seal it is, including the cam seals. It's unusual, but you might have got a bad seal from Toyota

 

[MA70Snowman]

Well thanks for the input JDUB. I"ll crack it open and see what we find. I'll try to take pictures if there's anything visually there to see.

 

[jdub]

Sorry I couldn't be of anymore help. Is the big hose from the driver's side cam cover to the block clear?

The only other things to do is a compression test and leak down test. Even then, there should be sufficient PCV flow to prevent blowing a seal.

 

[MA70Snowman]

Sorry I couldn't be of anymore help. Is the big hose from the driver's side cam cover to the block clear?

The only other things to do is a compression test and leak down test. Even then, there should be sufficient PCV flow to prevent blowing a seal.

Well I"m at a dead end. I went outside and tore apart the front timeing cover. The PS and ALT belt were just covered in oil. The bottom left (facing the alt) of the alt was covering almost what looked like road grime. The crank pully had a nice coat of oil as well. HOwever when I got inside the cover there wasn't to much oil. The oil drive gear was pretty dry. The timing belt had some light residue but not as much as the others. The crank gear was dry. there was a light coat of oil on the front of the plate behind the timing belt. however ALL the seals looked good. I pulled the upper plate behind the cam sprockets. nothing exciting there. there was some oil where the metals from the head and the plate touched. both the seals looked good. I'm stumped.

You can clearly see on the underside of the hood that there's a spray pattern of oil from either the timing belt or the acc. belts. there's oil all over the front of the bay, part of the intake pipe (filter to turbo) and the side of the manifold facing the front of car. The only leak i'm aware of is that the CPS has a slight drip when warm which drips right onto the exhaust mani and burns there. but thats a SLOW drip, i just need a new o-ring there. but other then that I can't see what would push that much oil out after hitting boost.

if like you said its "Coincidence" then its either boost related, RPM related, oil pressure related. but sitting cold my PSI at 2000 hits almost 60-80ish. (oil)
I would've taken pictures but I couldn't see anything worth taking pictures of.

any thoughts/input is GREATLY appreciated at this point. as I don't want to slap it together w/o finding anything.

 

[jdub]

60 psi cold at 2000 RPM...is your pump shimmed?

Is this a stock oil cooler circuit? Or are you still using the stock oil hard lines that run across the bottom front?

How about the turbo oil feed? I see you are using aftermarket there.

 

[MA70Snowman]

60 psi cold at 2000 RPM...is your pump shimmed?

Is this a stock oil cooler circuit? Or are you still using the stock oil hard lines that run across the bottom front?

How about the turbo oil feed? I see you are using aftermarket there.

Yes the pump was shimmed. I can't say off the top of my head how much but was like 1-2mm over the min recomended.

No totally AFTERMARKET system. -10AN lines. I got a fillter relaction adapter from summit on the block, the feed line goes to a relocated filter under headlight, that goes to a T-stat that located infront of the radiator between the ac cooler the other side goes to a decent cooler which is right next to it the cooler feeds back to the T-stat which returns to the block. None of those lines are leaking. that was my first guess.

No evidence of oil spraying from the turbo feed. :3d_frown::1zhelp::1zhelp::cry::cry:

 

[jdub]

Sorry for the (perhaps) dumb question, are you sure this is oil and not ATF from the PS pump?

 

[MA70Snowman]

Sorry for the (perhaps) dumb question, are you sure this is oil and not ATF from the PS pump?

nope not a dumb question as that was what I suspected as well. My ATF is clean and red. The "oil" i found behind the timing cover was Golden/dirty.

 

[IJ.]

Done a leakdown on this engine yet Snow?

 

[MA70Snowman]

Done a leakdown on this engine yet Snow?

nope. but I don't know what that would/could indicate. Nor do I have the tools for it.

 

[IJ.]

It would give us an idea of how much blowby gas your engine is producing as it may just be as simple as your current PCV system is being overwhelmed by the volume of gas.

 

[MA70Snowman]

not sure i'm following IJ. so what your saying. (I just typed a huge paragraph. but in the end. I'm still lost in the sauce.) There's no evidence of seals blown, So i'm not sure if the PCV system is at fault here. don't get me wrong I'm loving the help its also healthy to debate and get lost in the sauce.

 

[IJ.]

Ok my mistake I thought we were still chasing the Oil spray.

 

[MA70Snowman]

Ok my mistake I thought we were still chasing the Oil spray.

??? Totally lost now.

Yes I"m still trying to figure out where the oil came from. But aside from the seals, I don't know where else it would come from if it was PCV related.

I just read up on how to do a leak down test. From what I read that'll really only tell you a % loss. From there it could be 1 of 3 things intake/exhaust/rings. how do you determine from that? I tell you what IJ.. I"m running out right now to get a Leak down too, just because I know better then to doubt you.

 

[IJ.]

If it's Valves you can hear it in either the exhaust or the intake if it's rings you can hear it in the crankcase when you remove the dipstick or oil cap.

The other thing you might find/see from the leakdown is if it pressurises the crankcase the leak may become evident.

Needs to be done with the engine warm though.