This is funny...Christian Rock

[MKIII VIXEN]

Kai: the "church" as 99% of people see it is the catholic church. The catholic church is the most twisted version of the church ever to take hold. Other denominations are the same way, in teaching things that are NOT in the bible.

The true church doesn't have the hatred of evolution or talk about the timeline of the world for the simple reason that trying to use a timeline in the bible is useless.

Like I said, the main principle is to love one another. But intolerant bastards have so twisted the church into a breeding ground for hatred of anyone that isn't christian.

"A new commandment I give unto You. That Ye love one another; as I have loved You, that ye also love one another. By this shall all (men) know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" John 13:34-35

I am a Christain and I go to a church that teaches straight from the word. My denomination is not an issue. The word says "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."John 3:16-17

I do not have a hatred for evolution, but I think if anyone is completely honest they would have to admit there are wholes in that theory big enough to drive my Supra through. Life does not just happen from dust, or an explosion.

The true Church is the body of Christ. That would be the body of believers. Baptist, Church of God, Methodist, Catholic, ......ect

Christain means to be Christ like. As a Christain a person should strive to be like Christ. WWJD. Jesus loved the poor , the rich, the sick, the young, the old, and the hungry. Jesus loved the sinner, but not the sin.

If you are going to a church where the Pastor is preaching hatred from the pulpit then you need to look elsewhere. I have never heard the Pastor at my church say a hateful word about anyone. "A new commandment I give unto You. That Ye love one another; as I have loved You, that ye also love one another. By this shall all (men) know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" John 13:34-35

Kai, I truly am sadden by the way you feel about prayer. Like I said before I pray for others as a way of showing love. I don't understand that it would be an insult to care about another human.

 

[csnow]

The true church doesn't have the hatred of evolution or talk about the timeline of the world for the simple reason that trying to use a timeline in the bible is useless.

The church cannot accept evolution and to suggest that it can is wrong. I must take a strong position on this. If there were death and dying in the world for millions of years i.e. evolution, then death did not enter the world as the result of Adam's sin. Evolutionist and atheist have rightly attacked the book of Genesis as their primary target for assault. If you can prove that Genesis is wrong, then the whole Bible is built on a lie. Jesus referenced Adam and he referenced creation in Genesis on multiple occasions. The Bible teaches a young Earth and a six-day creation. There is a very distinct timeline given in the Bible. The geneology is accurately given in Matthew and Luke. I do agree with you Poodles that we should have love one for the other but I cannot change Truth because it offends someone. I must stand that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God. If you cannot believe the first book, why bother on the rest?


+1 to you MKIII Vixen

Christ hates sin, not the sinner. The church is a hospital of sinners, not a museum of fine saints. I or any other Christian is no better than any other person on the face of the Earth.....I am a sinner saved by Grace. I think the term Christian is very misleading. 75% of Americans profess to be Christians but unfortunatley our morality in this country does not match that number. I prefer to use the term Christ follower.


Wow this reminds me of writing papers back at Bible college. Time to go play some Madden 08 and relax.

 

[Poodles]

The timelines through the books of the bible are not the same, and can be argued to the moon.

People try to fill in the blanks too much. If it's not in the bible, it obviously isn't important to the lesson at hand. Much like how adam and eve's kids married other people that didn't come from the garden of eden. Where did they come from? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.

Evolution is a fact on many levels, you can see it everyday at work if you walk around and see people of different colors. Changes are gradual.

Make note that the bible make no mention of dinosaurs, but they are fact. Turning a blind eye to scientific fact is not faith.

 

[csnow]

The timelines through the books of the bible are not the same, and can be argued to the moon.

People try to fill in the blanks too much. If it's not in the bible, it obviously isn't important to the lesson at hand. Much like how adam and eve's kids married other people that didn't come from the garden of eden. Where did they come from? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.

Evolution is a fact on many levels, you can see it everyday at work if you walk around and see people of different colors. Changes are gradual.

Make note that the bible make no mention of dinosaurs, but they are fact. Turning a blind eye to scientific fact is not faith.

Actually the Bible does mention dinosaurs - Leviathan, behemoth, and tanniyn. Remember, the word dinosaur wasn’t even a word until the mid 1800s. They were commonly referred to as dragons in ancient literature. And yes, I believe man walked with dinosaurs.

Evolution as taught in school is not a fact you see every day. In fact, there has been 0 proof of evolution documented. You are mistaking macro-evolution (the changes of one species to another) with micro-evolution (the genetic variation within a species). Yes you will see micro-evolution in the world but you will never see a pig change into a horse. Please read my other post if you want more information. People of different colors is simply the variation with the human DNA based on regions of the world due to climate, altitude, etc.

Adam and Eve's kids did not marry other people from outside the garden. This is the old "Where did Cain get his wife" question. The answer is that they married their brothers and sisters. There were no other humans other than themselves.

Many people immediately reject the conclusion that Adam and Eve’s sons and daughters married each other by appealing to the law against brother-sister intermarriage. Some say that you cannot marry your relation. Actually, if you don’t marry your relation, you don’t marry a human. A wife is related to her husband even before they marry because all people are descendants of Adam and Eve—all are of ‘one blood.’ The law forbidding marriage between close relatives was not given until the time of Moses (Leviticus 18-20). Provided marriage was one man to one woman for life (based on Genesis 1 and 2), there was no disobedience to God’s law originally when close relatives (even brothers and sisters) married each other.

Remember that Abraham married his half-sister (Genesis 20:12). God blessed this union to produce the Hebrew people through Isaac and Jacob. It was not until some 400 years later that God gave Moses laws that forbade such marriages.

Adam contained 100% of all human DNA. He was pure. By Leviticus, the chance of DNA mutations was now probable, so God forbid it. Just like pure bred dogs tend to be weaker and suffer from known problems due to the lack of DNA variation due to inbreeding. That is why a pure bred Dalmatians will suffer from deafness and blindness and will probably be at a vet much more than a mixed mutt off the street. The Dalmatian has many more DNA mutations than a mutt who has a broader DNA variation.

The timelines in the Bible are not conflicting. Please show me a reference if you would like clarification.

I would never turn a blind eye to science. I love science and I believe science supports the accuracy of the Scriptures. Don't let science demise your faith in the Bible.

 

[Poodles]

A simple explaination of carbon dating would suffice to prove 99% of science wrong.

It's never happened, and never will.

Also, the eruption of Mt. St. Helen's left strata, but we can tell volcanic rock from sedimentary and also see geologic events saved in the strata.

My main point to ALL of this discussion is.... why does it matter? We seem to think that someone can be taught out of believing, but in fact, it's not true. Big bang could have been God's way of starting the creation. Evolution isn't mentioned, as it doesn't have to be. Why does it matter how man was created? If he evolved, who's to say God didn't have a hand in it?

Many astronomers and mathematicians believe in god because the universe is so perfectly created, follows rules when there should be chaos.

I myself, stand in the middle. I'm sick of people saying "well, it's not in the bible so it's not true." I hear this one BOTH sides. We try to fill in the gaps, but why? What does it matter to the lesson that defying God's will bring consequences?

Speak where the Bible speak, and be silent where it is silent.

 

[91T breezen']

Thanks Chris. There are in fact 35 references to 'dinosaurs', in the Bible. If you look at other cultures histories in ancient times, you will also find more references to 'dragons' and large serpent like beasts. The Romans made many likenesses in both paintings and sculpture, along with the Sammarians, the Greeks, and many, many others. Even here in the US, cave wall etchings and drawings have been discovered, that depict men struggling with large reptilian looking creatures.
In fact, several fossils have been unearthed, that both human and dinosaur bones were together, and carbon dated (flawed method) to the same time. You won't read too much about those though, because it makes too many "men of science', very uncomfortable.

 

[csnow]

Poodles,

The Bible is not silent. The Bible clearly states that, " In the beginning God created...." All items in the universe are named in the six days of creation. If God used evolution then there was death before sin. Billions and billions of "things" would have died. This would mean God is the origin of death. God is the origin of life, not death. Death is the result of man's sin and rebellion.

So, it does matter.....

Mt Saint Helens was used as an example to show that cataclysmic events can cause major layering of the Earth's surface in a short time, not needing millions of years. The flood in Genesis 6 was such an event that can explain the formations we see today. Remember, the majority of the water came from within the Earth, not as rain (however, there was a lot of rain as well). It was an abrupt cataclysmic event that forever changed the face of the Earth.

But in the end, I cannot prove God. It is by Grace that we are saved through Faith. However, no one can prove their isn't a God and no one has proved evolution. The one or two fossils that have been presented are clearly just an extinct species. There is no fossil that shows a hybrid, macro-evolved being.

Millions and millions of years of dying "evolving" creatures would surely yield an abundant fossil record. Where is the "missing" link?

 

[Gtstarga]

I have read this thread and seen that many points of view. One statement got me "

Yep you definitely live in Europe...

I have no religion and spend no time at church, but I have a personal divied about religion.

I pray to no god or superior being, I would hope/like to think that our time here is for a good reason. But I do find it hard in our modern age to place a faith in the unknown. So I live my life in my own way. I ensure I hurt no other person physicaly or mentaly, I am polite and never insult other peoples views or ideas, unless they would be harmful to others. I try to protect those I love and cherish from these things too.

Any religion can be good! If that person lives by the ideas that they dictate.

From what we see in the video is marketing, people being bullshitted with shows and stunts. Someone compared it to Jerry Springer, I agree!!!! A faith of comercial telly and empty lives!!!

Any religion can be also bad. We look to the Muslim religion as what is wrong in our world today! Who here knows a Muslim well???? Many work for me and they are true and honest people, they do thier best and have no offence to living in western world. This is where I see most hatred coming today.

I don't believe unlike many of you do, but I think that if you do enjoy this and don't push it onto others. If you want it you will follow.

Here in the UK we have many issues when religion is brought in. We have many people who are Muslim living in our country, the media focus on the extremists who try to change the place they move too (the UK), so they can be happy. Talk to many real life people and they are in our country for the life experiance and oppertunties. Most European views are more politcal than scientific, a frustration from those who change our lifestyles and traditions to suit their beliefs.

Religion can pull a community together but pull and country/countires apart!!!

I take the time and ensure people enjoy their beliefs, but they must respect mine too.

Believe in what makes you happy, don't offend others or squash there thoughts or faiths. Help others, let them help you. Those that kill in faith, have no faith.





One more question..... If someone killed another person and said "God told me to do it" what would you think?

 

[Poodles]

csnow: there is an abundant fossil record to prove evolution. Fossils are NOT always created, so a small species (like say early humans) wouldn't be so easy to find.

I'll have to look it up a bit more, but IIRC the wording in genesis is a bit...tough. Genesis can't truely be taken at face value, as such if it was, abortion wouldn't be an issue, since they don't have a soul yet.

If I remember right the wording is "knowing death," as such such if nothing before had a soul or feelings, there isn't any knowledge of death. They hadn't eaten from the tree of knowledge, so as such they couldn't know this...

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

One more question..... If someone killed another person and said "God told me to do it" what would you think?

Called, "full of shit."

 

[Gtstarga]

Called, "full of shit."

But Mr Bush said this was why he went to war with Iraq...........God told him to!!!!

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

Hence, Bush is full of shit.

 

[Gtstarga]

Hence, Bush is full of shit.

LOL

Every Amercain I have ever spoken to says this................... WTF is he doing in the White house, something not right there!!!

 

[Poodles]

there are many cases in the bible of people being killed because God commanded them to...

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

I don't believe God tells anyone to kill.
People interpret what they want. It's done everyday.

 

[Poodles]

God was very harsh in the Old Testament, so wiping entire cities out (men, women, children, animals, ect) was commonplace. There was always a reason for it though...

 

[trucker]

like i said, each side on this issue choses to beleive as they do, solely on faith.


but the enlightened ones seem to be the intolerant ones, while the "religious nuts"(sorry guys) are the ones coming at it with reason,and respect for the other side.


i'm still undecided, but if i was looking at just this thread to make my decision, which way do you think i would go?

 

[Poodles]

I could state the real issue is with the church, but it's not a popular fact, and I don't need everyone's scorn LOL

trucker: do what I did, find a church that doesn't immediately judge you the second you walk in, and follows the bible correctly instead of some false doctrine.

But there is one thing about faith that has a power over anything...

It's the ability to look someone of the faith in the eye and believe it when you say "I love you, and if I never see you again, I'll see you in Heaven."

 

[csnow]

I don't believe God tells anyone to kill.
People interpret what they want. It's done everyday.

Your statement is one that causes the serious Bible reader to pause and ponder. There is indeed much bloodshed recorded in the Bible. Remember, first of all, that Scripture never glosses over the horrible record of sin. The Bible presents humankind in all its ugly sinfulness, and so there are recorded instances of violence and bloodshed perpetrated by humans against their follow humans. Think of it, the very first family suffered the horror and grief of a brother murdering a brother! (Genesis 4) Scripture records such sad events to let us see how great the problem of sin is, and to marvel all the more at the grace of God to step in and to promise a Savior for such as us.

Yet there is more to consider. Your question is also an opportunity to review a few other Biblical basics concerning the gift of life. Life is indeed a gift from God, the Creator of all life. And God will end life. The Lord God speaks through Scripture and declares There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life. (Dt. 32:39) Only God or his appointed representatives in government (see Romans 13:4) can end life. For example, God might end life through illness or natural calamity. But God forbids an individual from taking another's life, or even ending his or her own life in suicide. It is not my life to do with as I please. God created me, and God bought me back from sin through the blood of his precious Son. I am the Lord's and he will determine the length of my life. With the psalm writer believers confess, My times are in your hands, O God. (Psalm 31:15.)

We also need to remember that for the protection of society from serious evil, God has also authorized governments to use the sword if necessary.( Again, see Romans 13:4. During the apostle's day, the sword was the instrument for capital punishment.) So the government still has the right, though it is not always used, to put to death criminals for capital offenses. However, as you read through the Old Testament, it is important to understand that the government of the children of Israel is different than our democracy. For the first portion of their history as a nation, the people lived under a theocracy. That word simply means that God ruled the people. And so, in that special circumstance, God did have commands in place that called for capital punishment for idolatry or adultery or other serious offenses against his moral will. When God commanded the children of Israel to take a life or destroy a city, God was using them as an instrument of judgment against unbelief. Think of the time of Joshua, when the people of Israel invaded the promised land. God used them as his sword of judgment. God does not tolerate sin, and for the Canaanites the time to come to repentance was over. God had allowed those nations of Canaan several centuries to repent from a vile and immoral form of idolatry that included human sacrifice of children. They did not change, and God used the Israelites as his sword of judgment, for the wages of sin is death. Yet never were the Israelites of old to simply kill at random. God was still in control, and he gave them commands as to the execution of his judgment. There was a war between idolatry and the worship of the true God. The Lord God wanted to protect his chosen people because he had a plan of salvation to accomplish. From Israel the promised Savior of all would come. Nothing could stand in the way of God's plan to save, and to send Jesus. Allowing the idolatrous nations to coexist with Israel would undermine their faith and threaten the promise. Subsequent reading of the Old Testament shows us that Israel did not carry out God's commands to the fullest, and so the people were again and again ensnared by Baal worship and other idolatry.

But in a nutshell, no I dont believe God tells people (today) to kill or murder. We are in the Church era and things are much different than in the Patriarchal era and the Period of the Judges.

HTH,

Chris

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

Yea from what I recall, I'm no scholar on the bible, after the old testament there wasn't much mention of God telling anyone to kill people.
The thing is now people use that as an excuse to relieve themselves of responsibility for their actions. It's ok though because God told them I had to do it even though it's not supposed to be that way anymore.

Can't say I take everything in the bible at face value but I'm sure there's some historical truth to it. Thing is I'm not going to mock someone because of what they believe.

Well except certain "religions." :biglaugh: