The (old) Official Gun Thread.

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Clueless

Banned
Feb 22, 2006
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Adjuster said:
I've had problems with Wolf ammo on many guns, but my 9mm Taurus PT92 has been fed everything from fine USA manufactured stuff, to cheap Chinese and Russian ammo. (The China stuff was loaded for sub machine guns, and very hot, the Wolf Russian stuff barely has enough powder in some loads to get the gun to cycle...)

Round to round, the Wolf stuff is never consistant. That makes it pretty hard to shoot accurately with it, and unless you just want to plink/rock n roll, a waste of money in my book.

For the money, the pistols made in Brazil by Taurus are the best deals out there at the moment. The XD is nice, but it's made in Check, or Yugoslavia, so not really a USA gun anyway...

The full size PT is concealable, but I'm leaning towards buying another, smaller 9mm Taurus, perhaps the Ti version. :)

Light, best trigger stock out there, and the cost is very reasonable.

My friend's pt92 has a loose barrel and been in for repairs twice, just thought I'd let people know.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Loose barrel on the PT92? Not sure how that would be possible.

The barrel is machined into a set of lugs that lock into the frame as the slide returns forward. It can only be slid back, and then it tilts by dropping the feed ramp/barrel towards the magazine as it ejects the empty brass, and feeds the next round up the pipe as the slide cycles.

The barrel is locked into place by those lugs, but it is possible to slightly move the barrel on every single one of these. (Even the Beretta's are this way.)

If the tolerance was tighter, it would jam up from light dust/debris.. As it is, the gun is pretty reliable.

Target accurcy is not affected much by this slight movement.. I did look into adding a bushing on the barrel end that would consistantly hold the barrel in one place, providing better shot to shot consistancy, but the gun is not that in-accurate as it is. (And I have put perhaps 8500 or more rounds through this pistol since buying it in 1985.) In a range, on a rest, I can get 3" groups at 50' easy. The bushing might bring that down to 1/2 the group size, but really now, how accurate do you need your personal defense weapon to be at 50'? At 10' I can put them into a large single hole, with a flyer or two depending on ammo, and rapid fire, 6" round group all 15 in a few seconds. It's very controlable, and has been overall an excellent weapon.

A match grade gun it's not, but then again, it was 300.00 with two 15 round mags. I've added Pachmeyer grips, and had to replace one roll pin on the adjustable rear sight mount, but that's it work wise in all these years. (I have polished the feed ramp, but it really did not need that..) I have thought about having the trigger done, but decided not too as I know the gun the way it is..

I clean the gun when I'm done shooting it, and it's not uncommon to run 500 rounds through it in an afternoon of shooting. (I have a 30 round mag, one 17 and the two 15 rounders, and it's fun to plink with.) The wolf ammo never fails to feed, but I do admit that wolf ammo stove pipes from time to time. (Appears there is not enough powder in the brass, and it does not cycle back the slide far enough.)

Back when we could still get the cheap China SMG 9mm stuff, it was so hot the slid would slam back, and the brass was chucked quite a ways! (That was the stuff that gave this gun a bad name, some claims that the slide would fail, and it would come back and hit the shooter in the face..)

Pretty difficult if you look at the gun design, but mine has never given me any trouble in that regard, and shows no signs of cracks where they "fail" from the hot loads...

.45 hunting eh? Out looking to bag your limit of local thieves and robbers... :)

Merry Christmas!
 

Clueless

Banned
Feb 22, 2006
980
0
0
38
Columbus, Indiana
Adjuster said:
Loose barrel on the PT92? Not sure how that would be possible.

The barrel is machined into a set of lugs that lock into the frame as the slide returns forward. It can only be slid back, and then it tilts by dropping the feed ramp/barrel towards the magazine as it ejects the empty brass, and feeds the next round up the pipe as the slide cycles.

The barrel is locked into place by those lugs, but it is possible to slightly move the barrel on every single one of these. (Even the Beretta's are this way.)

If the tolerance was tighter, it would jam up from light dust/debris.. As it is, the gun is pretty reliable.

Target accurcy is not affected much by this slight movement.. I did look into adding a bushing on the barrel end that would consistantly hold the barrel in one place, providing better shot to shot consistancy, but the gun is not that in-accurate as it is. (And I have put perhaps 8500 or more rounds through this pistol since buying it in 1985.) In a range, on a rest, I can get 3" groups at 50' easy. The bushing might bring that down to 1/2 the group size, but really now, how accurate do you need your personal defense weapon to be at 50'? At 10' I can put them into a large single hole, with a flyer or two depending on ammo, and rapid fire, 6" round group all 15 in a few seconds. It's very controlable, and has been overall an excellent weapon.

A match grade gun it's not, but then again, it was 300.00 with two 15 round mags. I've added Pachmeyer grips, and had to replace one roll pin on the adjustable rear sight mount, but that's it work wise in all these years. (I have polished the feed ramp, but it really did not need that..) I have thought about having the trigger done, but decided not too as I know the gun the way it is..

I clean the gun when I'm done shooting it, and it's not uncommon to run 500 rounds through it in an afternoon of shooting. (I have a 30 round mag, one 17 and the two 15 rounders, and it's fun to plink with.) The wolf ammo never fails to feed, but I do admit that wolf ammo stove pipes from time to time. (Appears there is not enough powder in the brass, and it does not cycle back the slide far enough.)

Back when we could still get the cheap China SMG 9mm stuff, it was so hot the slid would slam back, and the brass was chucked quite a ways! (That was the stuff that gave this gun a bad name, some claims that the slide would fail, and it would come back and hit the shooter in the face..)

Pretty difficult if you look at the gun design, but mine has never given me any trouble in that regard, and shows no signs of cracks where they "fail" from the hot loads...

.45 hunting eh? Out looking to bag your limit of local thieves and robbers... :)

Merry Christmas!

According to my friend, he say's he get's 4" groups at 15 yards and had other more experienced shooter shoot his gun and got about the same. He compared his barrel on his gun to one brand new in the store and it wiggles more....that's all I know. I'm either going either with a Springfield XD45 or a Ruger P345
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
My brother has a desert camo themed Glock .40 compact. It's interesting, but not my style.

If I was going to Iraq or Afganistan, the brown pistols would be a good choice I suppose. Or here in the scrub brush, it's pretty brown all summer long too, so it works.

Everything I own right now is all black. (Flat black, or parkerized...) Very low gloss to reflect as little light as possible.
 

Dunckel

Active Member
Jan 16, 2007
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Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with a S&W model M&P40. I may be using it as a duty weapon for the police dept. I found out today that the pistol that I currently have cannot be used on duty. I looked at a few different Glocks, but didn't like the way they fit my hand. Neither did the berettas or the HKs.
http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP.htm
What do you think about it?
 

Clueless

Banned
Feb 22, 2006
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Columbus, Indiana
Dunckel;876547 said:
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with a S&W model M&P40. I may be using it as a duty weapon for the police dept. I found out today that the pistol that I currently have cannot be used on duty. I looked at a few different Glocks, but didn't like the way they fit my hand. Neither did the berettas or the HKs.
http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP.htm
What do you think about it?

What about the Springfield XD45? Although I recently got a Ruger p345pr, I put some money down for this....

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=70

...surely you can carry that.
 

Dunckel

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Jan 16, 2007
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I don't see the Springfield on the list of eligible weapons, but I wouldn't mind looking into a bit further. A friend of mine has the Springfield XD45, though I think his is a compact. I have heard good things about them.
 

Clueless

Banned
Feb 22, 2006
980
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Columbus, Indiana
Dunckel;876677 said:
I don't see the Springfield on the list of eligible weapons, but I wouldn't mind looking into a bit further. A friend of mine has the Springfield XD45, though I think his is a compact. I have heard good things about them.

How about this....why don't you post up the list of eligible weapons to give us a good idea what we'd have to work with as in giving suggestions.
 

Dunckel

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Jan 16, 2007
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1. Sig Sauer
Mo. 220 .45Acp
Mo. 226 9mm/.40S&W

2. Beretta
Mo. 92 9mm
Mo. 96 .40
To include 92+96 vertec models.

3. Smith & Wesson
M+P 9, .40S&W + 45 ACP
Mo. 59, 459, 659, 5903, 5904, 5906 and 915 (All are 9mm)

4.Glock
Mo. 17 9mm
Mo. 22 40S&W
Mo. 21 45S&W

5. H&K
USP9 9mm
USP40 40S&W
USP45 45ACP
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
That M+P 9mm appears interesting.. (I have the "Beretta" copy in the Taurus.. :) )

Nothing to sneeze at having 18 rounds in your service weapon before you have to reload. (Hope you never have to use it, but it's there if you do.)

Personally, I'd have to "point" each of these, and have played with the USP, Glock, Beretta and SIG, and the Beretta points best for me. (IE: You pull the gun, point it, and then sight to see where your "Pointed" natually.. The closer to where you really were aiming with ZERO time on the gun, and the more likely you are in a crisis/stress situation to actually hit what your meaning to hit.. You naturally point at the target, and some guns are just better for different people, and they are naturally more accurate with them. Training can overcome much of this, and to some extent does with everyone, but push the stress button, and ask you to fire that weapon on/at someone, and suddenly that silly pointing thing you tried out can save you life.. :) )

BTW, I point really low with the 1911... and the first time I shot one, barely hit the lower edge of the target... Embarassing! (I like to think I'm not to shabby of a shot, but it caught me... Same goes for the Glock, it's a low point for me, but not as low.) I really like the SIG, but they are dang precious, and SIG knows it. (Price one, and you will see what I mean..) SIG has some recoil I did not like either. USP had a nice feel, but again was too much for just a plastic pistol. (It was one of the first dual recoil spring pistols I've shot, and it was interesting, but not worth the money IMHO. Now, give me one with the threaded barrel, and the suppressor to go with it, and I'd change my tune! (Oh, and some night sights too..) :) )

I've had my Taurus for so long I'm ingrained in it. I have rubber Pachmayr grips and a fun 30 round magazine, and it's just been a great pistol. Bought it new back in 1985. :)
 

Shytheed Dumas

For Sale
Mar 6, 2006
967
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54
Louisville, KY
I've carried my KelTec P3AT .380 religiously in my pocket for as long as I've had it - maybe 9 months now. I am a serious fan of small autos because of the ease of concealment, and I think I've decided the perfect carry piece to graduate to is this...

Behold the Kahr PM9!

img_PA_pm9094.jpg


I am SERIOUSLY considering a Kahr fund to cover the $600 price tag, but since it's both pocketable and good for IWB carry, reportedly reliable and matches the caliber of my bedroom gun, it's looking pretty attractive. Anybody with an opinion on this one?

If I had the money I'd move to the Rohrbaugh R9 since I like the dimensions of the P3AT, but maybe after my next promotion...
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Shytheed Dumas;876802 said:
I've carried my KelTec P3AT .380 religiously in my pocket for as long as I've had it - maybe 9 months now. I am a serious fan of small autos because of the ease of concealment, and I think I've decided the perfect carry piece to graduate to is this...

Behold the Kahr PM9!

img_PA_pm9094.jpg


Love the Kahr. It's small, very well made and a quality gun.
Have to love the price on the Taurus
Check out the specs. I've had these guns side by side, and they are so close size wise it's not even funny. The Taurus is slightly larger, but not so much that you would notice if you did not have them laying there next to each other. (Wait till you see the price.. the winner is..!) And the trigger on this gun is as good as any I've seen at this price, or 3x as much.
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=24&category=Pistol

Oh, and they make this gun with a Ti slide...
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=20&category=Pistol

If I really, really could justify the money, I would already have one in Ti 9mm. :)
And the best part? It's about the same money as the Kahr. ;)

This is the gun I've owned since 85'. Added different grips.. Needed nothing else.. ;)
http://www.taurustactical.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=397&category=Pistol
 

Shytheed Dumas

For Sale
Mar 6, 2006
967
0
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54
Louisville, KY
I looked at the Mil Pro a while ago, but it was sie by side against the KT - BIG difference when you're used to dropping a pistol into a pair of jeans you're outgrowing. :)

I compared specs between the Kahr and MP the other day, and they are definitely very similar. The main dimension that I found to be important after carrying a full sized 1911 for a short while is thickness - especially for IWB carry.

I think I need to do what you did, though, and head to the gun shop and lay the Kahr and Taurus side by side. It's really hard to justify $250 just for a 1/4" of thickness and it probably doesn't matter much - especially if I can get my hands on one in half the time. :D
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Cool. If you buy one, it's too bad I don't live closer, we'd have to head to the range! (I'd like to shoot one before I plunk down the money for the Ti version... :) )

Suppose I should go over to Impact Guns, and rent one on the range, and shoot it back to back with the PT99.. But I'd most likely end up buying it, and my wife would then shoot me with both the old, and the new gun.. :)

For me it was a pointing issue too. The MP that I was looking at with the Kahr both felt nice, and were well made quality guns. But the Kahr pointed lower than the MP, and the MP felt nice and comfortable in my hand right off the bat. (Slightly beter ergo's if you have larger hands on the MP, but like you mentioned, it's only slightly wider than the PM9.) And the 16 ounce empty weight of the MP Ti... Less than half my current pistola! (And I have carried that in a shoulder holster with a jacket and SOB and loose shirt more than a few times... So can only think the smaller, ligher pistol would be the last I'd ever buy, or need for that matter.)
 

Dunckel

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Jan 16, 2007
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I think I am going to go with the M+P40. Pointing the weapon, like you mentioned Adjuster, just feels better than any of the other guns I tried out. And that is very important. Plus, the break I get by being a law enforcement member is pretty good too. The gun, three 15 round clips, and night sights for $478. Retail is $728 with night sights. I would love to use the gun I've had since I was 21, (S&W model 4013) but it is considered a compact because of the single stack clip.
 
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