The (old) Official Gun Thread.

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MDCmotorsports

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I don't think 9mm vs 40 vs 45 is a question of going through clothing. Years back I saw an expansion test of heavy denim (such as a jacket or jeans) of hollow points.

Most of the rounds fired in the test did NOT expand when the cavity of the hollow point was filled with material.
 

Supracentral

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MDCmotorsports;1609209 said:
I don't think 9mm vs 40 vs 45 is a question of going through clothing. Years back I saw an expansion test of heavy denim (such as a jacket or jeans) of hollow points.

Rounds have advanced a bit since then. Also some vendors have directly addressed it.

Hornady has an answer to it:

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-ACP-185-gr-Critical-Defense/

ammo-critical-defense-cutaway.jpg


Silver ball CorBon Glaser and PowerBall are designed with that in mind as well.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaserreg-Safety-Slug/45-Auto--Plus-P-145gr-Glaser/04600-04800/500/Product

04600-LG.jpg


http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaserreg-PowRBallreg/45-Auto-165gr-PowRBall/PB45165-20/600/Product

PB45165-LG.jpg


MDCmotorsports;1609209 said:
Most of the rounds fired in the test did NOT expand when the cavity of the hollow point was filled with material.

Even so, I'll take the mass of a .45 over a 9mm any day, all things being equal, especially if expansion doesn't happen, the .45 is going to do a lot more damage. However, as I mentioned earlier, either of them will kill you dead 9 times out of 10.
 

MDCmotorsports

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Supracentral;1609246 said:
Even so, I'll take the mass of a .45 over a 9mm any day, all things being equal, especially if expansion doesn't happen, the .45 is going to do a lot more damage. However, as I mentioned earlier, either of them will kill you dead 9 times out of 10.

If you can hit what you're aiming at. I know a young gal that carries a .22 because she can't handle a larger caliber due to her wrists (injury.)
 

Supracentral

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MDCmotorsports;1609377 said:
If you can hit what you're aiming at. I know a young gal that carries a .22 because she can't handle a larger caliber due to her wrists (injury.)

Agreed. As you know I'm well practiced with the .45 and I'm a pretty large (6' @ 225lbs) guy so it works for me. If you can't hit your target, it doesn't matter how big the gun is.
 

gaboonviper85

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Just ordered two stripped ar-15 lower recievers 10 min ago.....they will be shipped to my work by Tuesday (owner of the shop has FFL)....can't wait to start building my SHTF guns:)!!!

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------

Btw...for any of you "black rifle" nuts....don't pass up this epic deal!!!!

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&groupid=53
 

iwannadie

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MDCmotorsports;1609377 said:
If you can hit what you're aiming at. I know a young gal that carries a .22 because she can't handle a larger caliber due to her wrists (injury.)

On another forum there was a story about an old guy who shot and killed someone with a single shot from a .22lr pistol(may have been rifle). It was the classic "what-if" scenario that people always bring up when arguing bigger=better. It was a large male wearing a denim jacket high on meth or crack or something. He got shot one time and went down and died later at the hospital I think. It seemed to quiet a lot of the bigger=better crowd for a little while.

I have nothing against any caliper I just don't like the attitude of bigger is better end of story, the people that act as if anything besides a .45 is just going to make the bad guy angry need to grow up. That's not directed to anyone hear as there's information to back up the choices here, there's no cheerleading going on like other places.
 

Poodles

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Too many variables in the ownership of a gun.
- Size for concealed carry
- What size round you can actually handle shooting
- Cost of ammo (since if you don't have practice, that gun isn't going to do you any good)

Someone that's a great shot with a .22 will be better off than the person with the big .45 and can't handle it. Also, the penetration issue is a pretty mute point until you get to special weapons and their special rounds (FN Five-seveN comes to mind), or rifles.
 

iwannadie

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Poodles;1609593 said:
Too many variables in the ownership of a gun.
- Size for concealed carry
- What size round you can actually handle shooting
- Cost of ammo (since if you don't have practice, that gun isn't going to do you any good)

Someone that's a great shot with a .22 will be better off than the person with the big .45 and can't handle it. Also, the penetration issue is a pretty mute point until you get to special weapons and their special rounds (FN Five-seveN comes to mind), or rifles.

Years ago when I got my first pistol I went with 9mm and a friend went with .45. Our first few times shooting(indoor range) he was having a hard time hitting the Paper at like 10-15 feet. I was nailing the target pretty well for my first time. He was a big fan of it having to have the largest caliper to be worth while. His response to accuracy was always "I don't need to be accurate I have stopping power." He didn't like when I brought up having to actually Hit the target for the "stopping power" to matter aspect.
 

gaboonviper85

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iwannadie;1609602 said:
Years ago when I got my first pistol I went with 9mm and a friend went with .45. Our first few times shooting(indoor range) he was having a hard time hitting the Paper at like 10-15 feet. I was nailing the target pretty well for my first time. He was a big fan of it having to have the largest caliper to be worth while. His response to accuracy was always "I don't need to be accurate I have stopping power." He didn't like when I brought up having to actually Hit the target for the "stopping power" to matter aspect.


Your friend simply just doesn't know how to shoot obviously lol....my mother has no problem nailing targets with a subcompact 45acp and my mom is a small small woman! Though she doesn't like the recoil of the 45 so she has her little glock 9mm subcompact that she keeps in a hallowed out book lol.

Personally I could care less about caliber if I was to get shot...a 9mm will hurt just as much as a 45...dead is dead and both will kill you dead easily!

Back when I used to hunt my rifle of choice was a ruger mkII m77 338win mag....such a big round which wasn't needed for deer! I chose this round because the bullet was so heavy that a deer's tissue and bone didn't have enough mass to cause the bullet to grenade on impact...this left ALOT of undamaged meat as the bullet would just pass threw in and out with an exit wound the size of a golf ball!!! Now my moms husbands dad used a 243 and his exit wounds where about the size of a tennis ball as the bullet exploded on impact! This caused massive tissue damage which is generally what you want but my goal in hunting is a well placed shot with minimal damage!

Guess what I'm saying is sometimes bigger isn't going to give you the massive stopping power one may think! The bigger the bullet the heavier it is which also means it needs a bigger heavier target to cause the bullet to expand! The only way to cure that problem is to make the bullet go faster, much faster! I'd much rather get shot with a 45acp then with a 223 rifle as a 223 is much smaller and about 5 times faster causeing total bullet obliteration on impact which intern cause massive tissue distruction on an epic level!

This is why the .50cal rifles (military) are not meant to be used on soft targets....they are meant to take out cars and other stuff...though they are great for shooting threw brick walls and then soft targets lol. Every caliber has it's pros and cons and one needs to choose the weapon to do the specific job!

My personal fav handgun round is the .40s&w as it's middle ground between the 9mm and .45
 

iwannadie

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gaboonviper85;1609633 said:
Your friend simply just doesn't know how to shoot obviously lol....my mother has no problem nailing targets with a subcompact 45acp and my mom is a small small woman! Though she doesn't like the recoil of the 45 so she has her little glock 9mm subcompact that she keeps in a hallowed out book lol.

My point was, in his mind he didn't care about actually taking the time to learn to shoot. He was banking on his "stopping power" to be the deciding factor, not his aim.
 

Poodles

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iwannadie;1609640 said:
My point was, in his mind he didn't care about actually taking the time to learn to shoot. He was banking on his "stopping power" to be the deciding factor, not his aim.

Only time that works is with a shotgun lol
 

foreverpsycotic

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I managed to get down to a 2.5" grouping with the glock 19 and the 23 at ~30'. I am quite pleased with the results, although I want it to be ~1.5" at 45'. Might be unrealistic, but I don't feel comfortable daily carrying until I get close.
 

gaboonviper85

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Poodles;1609647 said:
Only time that works is with a shotgun lol

Not exactly true...I've shot and missed many squirrls with my mossberg 835...sometimes I'd just be like "WTF!" as said squirrls just run off!!! But I've also shot many that I couldn't even see, just aimed at bouncing tree limbs and low n behold a squirrel falls down lol.

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

foreverpsycotic;1609648 said:
I managed to get down to a 2.5" grouping with the glock 19 and the 23 at ~30'. I am quite pleased with the results, although I want it to be ~1.5" at 45'. Might be unrealistic, but I don't feel comfortable daily carrying until I get close.

That will be difficult with factory glock sights as they are so blocky and cover such a large target area....invest in a better sight and you'd be amazed at what you can do;-)
 

foreverpsycotic

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Might have to think about that. I also need to work on a few more things that I see myself doing, and the grouping should go down.
 

Cz.

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When you're that far away from a person you're starting to move out of the area where you can claim self defense. Most CC "self defense" issues starts at less than 15 feet so it's not that important to be pinpoint accurate at that range. In a real situation your most likely not going to even have time to ADS.
That being said, there's nothing wrong with improving your skills to that point.
 

87mk111

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My mom found my Walther 380 today when she was going thru my stuff. She picked it up and pointed at the ceiling and pulled the trigger about 3 times. :2ar15: Good thing it wasnt loaded and the safety was on. I sat her down and gave her a short talk on what not to do with guns the instant u pick them up. On another, somewhat unrelated note, my girlfreind broke up with me :: wah :: so i wont be teaching her how to shoot anytime soon lol.
 

gaboonviper85

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87mk111;1610019 said:
My mom found my Walther 380 today when she was going thru my stuff. She picked it up and pointed at the ceiling and pulled the trigger about 3 times. :2ar15: Good thing it wasnt loaded and the safety was on. I sat her down and gave her a short talk on what not to do with guns the instant u pick them up. On another, somewhat unrelated note, my girlfreind broke up with me :: wah :: so i wont be teaching her how to shoot anytime soon lol.

That seriously could have been bad...thankful nothing happened!!!
 
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