The Fiery Debate: Stick with 7M Power?... or swap for 1JZ/2JZ

[VegaSupra]

Back in the late 90s, it seemed to be that anyone that had done a 1JZ swap was the talk of the MKIII world. Mike Urbano comes to mind with his slick blue Supra. I remember looking into the engine bay in Vegas. People were envious. But now I'm re-entering the Supra world again and it seems that 7M has gained some serious momentum in the last decade, almost like people finally figured out how to extract MKIV level power from the 7M in the last few years.

Here's what I would like to discuss with you all here...

What are the pros/cons of choosing which one to go with?

Do 7M loyalists stick with it because of an ideal? or is it because it's already there so "work with what you've got" type of thing? Or maybe it's that it really is an awesome powerplant that can hang with the best of the best.

What's the benefits of swapping for a 1JZ, and is it better to run with twins or go big single?

And do people who swapped for a MKIV fire breathing 2JZ feel like they have cheated on their MKIIIs? Or since it's still "Supra", it's all good.

My thoughts: I would likely build up the 7M, but the idea of running twins on a 1JZ seems pretty enticing and I'm trying to nail down why that is.

 

[Nick M]

Or the people that liked the Supra can now pay for it to be modded...

 

[S.A. supra]

What kind of HP do you want? I have owned both 7mgte and 1jzgte. Now I'm going 2jzgte.

The 7m is a good engine but cost a lot to build one properly. Plus the engine bay is cluttered. If built properly it can hang with the stock 2jz.

Skip the 1j and just go 2j if you are gonna go with a jz engine. It cost 4 or 5 hundred more. But you get way more engine.

I guess what I'm saying is build a 7m or go 2jz don't bother going with the 1jz. Scrap the twins and go big single.

 

[Enraged]

Plus the engine bay is cluttered.

clutter? not if you build it right. example, nashmans car:

Also depends on your budget. You can also compare a rebuilt 7m with all appropriate parts, such as forged pistons, etc to a stock 2jz swap. Mods are the same price essentially, so ignore things that get upgraded like injectors and turbos. Compare the shortblock of each motor, dollar for dollar.

 

[S.A. supra]

Lol you couldn't find a better angle? One where we couldn't see the new greedy lemon bottle over flow. It takes a lot of work and money to clean it up like that. I'm guessing over $1000.

And still the jz looks cleaner.

 

[Reiketsukan]

This issue has been beaten to DEATH. I've only been here a couple years and I'm already sick of these threads. All that's going to happen is people who run (engine X) will justify why they chose it, which will directly or indirectly bash people who use (engine Y), then it just turns into a big pissing match. Do yourself a huge favor and just run whatever you like. There's no need to justify it to anyone but yourself.

 

[suprarx7nut]

7m or if you have the know how and funds for a proper 2j swap do that.

1j is the little brother who's newer, may be smarter, but just can't match the muscle of the 7m or 2j.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[VegaSupra]

This issue has been beaten to DEATH. I've only been here a couple years and I'm already sick of these threads. All that's going to happen is people who run (engine X) will justify why they chose it, which will directly or indirectly bash people who use (engine Y), then it just turns into a big pissing match. Do yourself a huge favor and just run whatever you like. There's no need to justify it to anyone but yourself.

I'm not bringing up an "issue". I am solicting both pros/cons and personal preferences based on facts and experience with the differences between the engines. I worded my question in such a way that directly asks people 'why' they believe one is better than the other. Because most people who are trying to decide which engine to spend coin on want to know the real differences. Maybe somebody will comment on here that it's easier to find all the best surrounding parts for the 7M and that it's super hard for the 1JZ. Maybe somebody will explain how they took a stock 7M-GTE and put $3,745.87 into it made it into a 500rwhp monster and how you basically get a stock 1JZ for that. I dunno. That's the kind of info I'm fishing for here. I know the basic differences between the engines, but I have no real experience with fully upgrading any of them.

How people respond is another matter... I'm certainly not trying to pit members against each other. Just wanting to have a look at the pros/cons in a civilized manner from all the most knowledgeable group of people that could provide such a discussion.

Personally, I like how one person responded saying "go with 2J for reasons x,y,z" which elicited a "no way.. stick with 7M because of a,b,c". What people choose to do with that info is on them.

 

[S.A. supra]

Don't worry about him just ask your questions. This is your thread. Like I have said I have owned theses engines and I gave you my opinion. Not bashing any one engine, just if you go jz skip the 1j. You will need all the same parts for a 1j that you would need for a 2j. So the difference in the cost for the 2j to the 1j would be the only difference. Most of the you would need for the 1j are gonna be 2j parts. I never had a hard time finding parts for the 1j. So if you go that route parts won't be a problem.

 

[Nick M]

All that's going to happen is people who run (engine X) will justify why they chose it, which will directly or indirectly bash people who use (engine Y), then it just turns into a big pissing match.

Case in point...

The 7m is a good engine but cost a lot to build one properly... If built properly it can hang with the stock 2jz.

And the original poster joins in his own thread of demise.

Maybe somebody will explain how they took a stock 7M-GTE and put $3,745.87 into it made it into a 500rwhp monster and how you basically get a stock 1JZ for that.

I want to see this stock 1JZGTE that can lay down 500 on a dynojet. I will give you my house and pay the mortgage if you do. And since your point was that for 3800 you can buy a 1JZ that lays down less than half of that on a dynojet, why interject the point?

 

[carter]

Either 3 of the motors are good, but with the good comes the back

7m = Head Gasket (easy fix, if done right but if your gonna build it, build it right)
1j = Sucky twins (ceramic turbos good to 14psi, before they eat themself from what I've read)
2j = Cost... how much do you wanna spead?

Personally I would stick with a 7m or swap to a 2j, as I look at the motors as what I could do with what I got. Either of the motors, you usually start the same, 7m and 2j both have fuel cut at 12psi, 1jz i know little about as I don't really see it as an upgrade per say because of the price involved in swapping. If you can find one cheap, hell why not but this is my opinion and I'm not bashing either motors, its just how i see it.

 

[wiseco7mgt]

Just go a 2jz, you'll find most people that have built a 7m properly and had success with it would next time just buy a 2j if they had the choice again just due to newer design and improved overall engine.

 

[VegaSupra]

wow so lots of love for the 2J swap, some love for building the 7M, and no love for the 1J yet!

any 1j-ers out there that stand behind their decision to go 2.5 and willing to lay down some reasons why?

 

[wiseco7mgt]

wow so lots of love for the 2J swap, some love for building the 7M, and no love for the 1J yet!

any 1j-ers out there that stand behind their decision to go 2.5 and willing to lay down some reasons why?

That's a reason that's been explained many times over, it's just a cost effective way to get more displacement while keeping the 1jz manifolds or intakes they may have already spent big dollars on.

 

[VegaSupra]

Case in point...



And the original poster joins in his own thread of demise.



I want to see this stock 1JZGTE that can lay down 500 on a dynojet. I will give you my house and pay the mortgage if you do. And since your point was that for 3800 you can buy a 1JZ that lays down less than half of that on a dynojet, why interject the point?

I think you misunderstood me Nick. I was throwing out a completely random possible story (I suppose estimated guess) of what someone building a 7M might spend to achieve 500HP. And then saying that they would argue that if it costs just as much to get a stock 1JZ for that price that only makes 280 wheel HP, then it would be their argument to go 7M and not 1JZ. I know for sure that a 1JZ does not put down that kind of power in stock form.

 

[GrimJack]

Off the top of my head...

7M pros:
- You've already got one.
- Parts are easy to get.
- Long stroke makes for lots of torque - especially off boost.

7M cons:
- Weak head gasket. Even when 'fixed' using the MHG route, lots of extra care must be taken, and the material thickness between cylinders is still really tight.
- Fuel ... this is a thirsty engine.

1J pros:
- High revving engine.
- Much better fuel economy than the 7M or 2J.

1J cons:
- Less power off boost.
- Some parts are only available from overseas.
- Less power 'under the curve'.
- ECU capacitor flaws.
- Price for a medium system - the guys that are still using stock electronics, maybe stock internals, etc.

2J pros:
- More torque / off boost performance.
- Better head design.
- Head gasket issues eliminated.
- *Lots* of aftermarket support.

2J cons:
- Price for a medium system - the guys that are still using stock electronics, maybe stock internals, etc.

With those said, ( and there's likely more, of course ) the cost issue really only hits the guys trying to build a decent performer on a budget. Anyone who only keeps the block, crank, bare head, and uses a standalone ECU isn't going to notice the difference in cost between any of the above. $1500 one way or another means diddly when you're looking at a $15-20K build.

Anyone on a really tight budget, of course, should stick with what they have. If you can avoid buying a new ECU, engine, bell housing and clutch, you'll come out ahead.

 

[S.A. supra]

What HP range are you looking to get?

 

[IJ.]

2J hands down as I know what it takes to build a 7M correctly and not many will have the resources/skills/determination to do so, having said that you can't halfass a 2J and expect it to live just because it's a 2J...

1J just doesn't make sense these days as not in a Mk3 it's just too heavy to drop 500cc, in a light car they're a brilliant engine.

 

[Nick M]

wow so lots of love for the 2J swap,

It is a great engine. If you have the means, go for it. I myself woudln't.

 

[wiseco7mgt]

-7M cons: Fuel ... this is a thirsty engine.

Just curious as to why you feel the 7m is a thirsty engine. For every 20 litres of fuel my turbo-a would do 175-180 klms. With the same engine in a Toyota cressida mx83 with auto it would average nearly identical figures. That's pretty good mileage to me.
That's mostly highway driving for me as i live out of town and the 100kph speed limit with the occasional squirt of the throttle.
My old 3y Toyota 4 runner would use 20 litres every 100klm lol, it was rooted.