I'm just comparing the 7M / 2J to the 1J. The 7M / 2J uses more fuel, the 1J uses less. The biggest single factor being the extra half liter of displacement.wiseco7mgt;1709279 said:
The Fiery Debate: Stick with 7M Power?... or swap for 1JZ/2JZ
- Thread starter VegaSupra
- Start date
7M is a nice engine once you fix the head gasket issue. Internal engine parts are reasonably priced, but you have to do the head gasket right. Gas mileage isn't horrible for what it is. The upside is, you already have one. Thats a great start. Even if you wanted to buikd one on the stand for use in yours, you can buy a rebuildable engine for next to nothing, then used the reasonably priced parts (see above) and put together a nice running engine that will withstand whatever you can throw at it for daily use. You won't build a 1200hp monster out of a 7M, i'll tell you that right now.
1JZ is JDM Tyte Yo. Thats all I have to say about that. If you are dedicated to your car and want to do something unheard of...oh wait, this is 2011. There are probably hundreds of these cars on the road now. It's not rare anymore. Parts are getting scarse, and having to extend the harness and all that crazy stuff that has to be done, well, to be honest, its worth going to the 2J.
2JZ is where you would go if you want stupid amounts of power (and have the wallet to support that). I would honestly skip the GTE and go for the GE. You can get GE's from the Lexus guys for pennies on the dollar. Once you have that, you can strap a big single to her ass and go (with appropriate mods).
If you want to be cute...
1UZFE is the 4 liter V8 from the LS/SC/GS400. Early engine start with 250hp/260tq from 92-95 (I am using the SC400 for this comparison), 260hp/270tq for 96-97, and the 98-00 VVTI motor makes 290hp/300tq, but the VVTI motors are stupid expensive. You can find the 92-95 motors for next to nothing (I have one sitting in my garage). You could use an LS or GS motor, but you will be spending a couple hundred dollars on the oil pan/pickup setup for the Supra. The SC has this already. Needless to say, this is probably the rarest swap, but its gaining more followers every month. The best thing is, the 1UZ will run 400-600K or more miles if properly maintained. Its a workhorse of an engine, and will treat you right. If you do forced induction, use a 92-95 motor. They have thicker rods and pistons. There is now a ton of info on this swap. It also helps that the 1UZ makes right at 200tq at 2000rpm as well. See the attached movie for some badassness
[video]http://youtu.be/GILCRATcxJ4[/video]
1JZ is JDM Tyte Yo. Thats all I have to say about that. If you are dedicated to your car and want to do something unheard of...oh wait, this is 2011. There are probably hundreds of these cars on the road now. It's not rare anymore. Parts are getting scarse, and having to extend the harness and all that crazy stuff that has to be done, well, to be honest, its worth going to the 2J.
2JZ is where you would go if you want stupid amounts of power (and have the wallet to support that). I would honestly skip the GTE and go for the GE. You can get GE's from the Lexus guys for pennies on the dollar. Once you have that, you can strap a big single to her ass and go (with appropriate mods).
If you want to be cute...
1UZFE is the 4 liter V8 from the LS/SC/GS400. Early engine start with 250hp/260tq from 92-95 (I am using the SC400 for this comparison), 260hp/270tq for 96-97, and the 98-00 VVTI motor makes 290hp/300tq, but the VVTI motors are stupid expensive. You can find the 92-95 motors for next to nothing (I have one sitting in my garage). You could use an LS or GS motor, but you will be spending a couple hundred dollars on the oil pan/pickup setup for the Supra. The SC has this already. Needless to say, this is probably the rarest swap, but its gaining more followers every month. The best thing is, the 1UZ will run 400-600K or more miles if properly maintained. Its a workhorse of an engine, and will treat you right. If you do forced induction, use a 92-95 motor. They have thicker rods and pistons. There is now a ton of info on this swap. It also helps that the 1UZ makes right at 200tq at 2000rpm as well. See the attached movie for some badassness
[video]http://youtu.be/GILCRATcxJ4[/video]
if you want to be unique, drop a 5.7L tundra motor in, add a factory TRD supercharger, and have 504hp and 550ft-lbs of torque on tap.
pogoism9;1709400 said:
Have you ever wondered how a car company gets 10 more horsepower without any changes?
Enraged;1709504 said:
Have you seen one of those engines out of a Tundra's bay? They're freaking enormous!
Nick M;1709505 said:
In the case of the 96 1UZ, it was lighter rotating assembly (rods are thinner and pistons have alot less metal), they changed the rings to reduce friction, increased CR (via pistons), and some slight ecu tuning.
Some really great points made here. Several people have asked how much horsepower I'm looking for. Well, it depends. That's not really what I was after here with this thread, although knowing the possibilities of each setup is valuable. With my previous Supra, I only had 5 "power performance" upgrades, and only 4 of which actually add more horsepower. Akimoto Intake, HKS BOV, HKS DP, Test pipe, HKS cat back. To me, it seemed like almost 300 to the wheels but I never dyno'd it. I know it probably wasn't that much but having completely unrestricted pipes all the way back combined with the intake made a world of difference. Was running stock boost, but the needle would slam all the way at the top of the gauge (well above the 8psi "limit" of stock). In fact, since it was all the way at the top, I never really knew how much boost I was on when fully opened. But I beat a 2001 Mustang Cobra from 0-120mph. I also hung neck and neck and only lost by about half car length to a C5 Vette (not a Z06) but those have 350 stock so it shows that just unrestricting what Toyota put out from the factory by letting it breathe correctly can make big power gains.
Anyway... sorry about the side skew there. So honestly I'd probably copy my last setup for a time, and then choose 7M,1J, or 2J when I'm ready to really build. And I think I'd look for at least 450-500 at the wheels. I see on the members HP ranking that several members have achieved that with the 1J. And I will say that the gas mileage in the 1J makes for a better daily driver. If I am able to make 450 wheel HP and 400 lbs torque, then I don't see where the 1J falls short there. Of course, the 2J can make unreal power, but since I plan on owning a MKIV at the same time as a MKIII, I'd like some variety. Seems kinda boring if I built them both on 2Js.
At any rate, thanks for so much awesome input from all sides of the coin here. If anyone has any other points, please feel free to share more!
Anyway... sorry about the side skew there. So honestly I'd probably copy my last setup for a time, and then choose 7M,1J, or 2J when I'm ready to really build. And I think I'd look for at least 450-500 at the wheels. I see on the members HP ranking that several members have achieved that with the 1J. And I will say that the gas mileage in the 1J makes for a better daily driver. If I am able to make 450 wheel HP and 400 lbs torque, then I don't see where the 1J falls short there. Of course, the 2J can make unreal power, but since I plan on owning a MKIV at the same time as a MKIII, I'd like some variety. Seems kinda boring if I built them both on 2Js.
At any rate, thanks for so much awesome input from all sides of the coin here. If anyone has any other points, please feel free to share more!
I know I'll make some people mad, but IMHO there is no reason to go 1J anymore when you can go 2JZGE-T for cheaper and make more power. 1J's have gotten more rare and prices have gone up for ratty engines. I can go to a local junkyard and pull a 2J for far cheaper.
You can run the 2J on 7M-GTE electronics as well if you're so inclined, meaning the huge wiring hurdle is gone.
I went 7M only because I had a lot of new parts specificly for the motor. Bit me in the ass to be honest...
Oh, and personal preferance, the 7M sounds meaner
You can run the 2J on 7M-GTE electronics as well if you're so inclined, meaning the huge wiring hurdle is gone.
I went 7M only because I had a lot of new parts specificly for the motor. Bit me in the ass to be honest...
Oh, and personal preferance, the 7M sounds meaner
One more thing... a 500hp 7M is not the same as a 500hp 1J. Well, unless you're building a dyno queen, and all you care about is the peak, anyway.
When you look at a dynograph, what really matters isn't the peak number, it's how much area there is under the line. A car with a wider, flatter curve will be much better to actually drive.
When you look at a dynograph, what really matters isn't the peak number, it's how much area there is under the line. A car with a wider, flatter curve will be much better to actually drive.
GrimJack;1709646 said:
Now see this is a great point. I know this, of course, but I forget sometimes to remember that. While 1J is pulling to reach peak, the 7M or 2J is already pulling away because of the immediate power available. What about the fact that many 1J Supras have cleared the 1/4 mile in 11 secs easy?
See this is why I asked this question... because honestly, I am very surprised by the answers here.
@Poodles - it "bit you..." You had problems with the 7M even after building it right? Care to expand? And by the way, I agree about the sound. Even at only 300hp, my Supra sounded throaty and mean as hell with the full 3 inch piping.
pogoism9;1709549 said:
Yep. That was the point. On a street car, you should use a heavier performance rod. That is strong. They will live a lot longer.
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Many? Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times thread in the racing section? http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?41973-***SM-member-1-4-mi.-times-list***VegaSupra;1709762 said:
I count *one*.
Furthermore, drag racing isn't the best indicator anyway - unless you're building a drag car, of course. Real driving has things like getting on and off the throttle mid lap... and turning.
Turning at full throttle in a 500+ hp car is asking for a smoky lack of control.GrimJack;1709883 said:Many? Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times thread in the racing section? http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?41973-***SM-member-1-4-mi.-times-list***
I count *one*.
Furthermore, drag racing isn't the best indicator anyway - unless you're building a drag car, of course. Real driving has things like getting on and off the throttle mid lap... and turning.
Yah I suppose the 1J might not make for a very good dragstrip Supra but it could do well in real life street races on the highway. Looks the the trap speed figures are pretty high for the associated times, further indicating that the 1J is mostly top end.
Very interesting. Since I would be fairly reluctant to go 2J, I may just stick with the good ol' 7M and do it right. I just like the idea of staying fully MKIII. A personal thing I guess.
Poodles;1709644 said:I know I'll make some people mad, but IMHO there is no reason to go 1J anymore when you can go 2JZGE-T for cheaper and make more power. 1J's have gotten more rare and prices have gone up for ratty engines. I can go to a local junkyard and pull a 2J for far cheaper.
You can run the 2J on 7M-GTE electronics as well if you're so inclined, meaning the huge wiring hurdle is gone.
I went 7M only because I had a lot of new parts specificly for the motor. Bit me in the ass to be honest...
Oh, and personal preferance, the 7M sounds meaner
Please dont do the 2j na-t they are nothing but headaches...why would you get a next generation motor and then run it on prior generation electronics like the 7m...plus you have to worry about the higher compression and the head doesnt flow as well as the gte head. The 2jz gte swap cost just as much as a 1jz swap and then you buy all the same parts. But you have more availability of parts and support with the 2j. Ive have seen it multiple times locally that the 2j swap is equal in cost with the 1j. I did my whole swap for under 5k with a 5 speed swap added on and I dont understand why people say it is the most expensive? What part is so expensive? After the swap the modding costs are equal for 7m, 1j, and 2j.
1jz motors cost 1700-2100
2jz aristo cost 1700-2100
+ add all the swap parts and they are equal.
One con that I see with the 1j vs the 2j with same bolt ons is that it seems that the 1j has more aggressive timing maps than the 2j to make the same power so detention is quicker if running no standalone but increased boost.
The price thing comes from the days of buying a JDM half cut to get your parts from. It was significantly cheaper to go this route because you ended up with virtually all the parts required, and already fit to the Mk3 chassis. You can't do the same with a 2J, because it doesn't come in a Mk3 chassis. So you had the extra costs of the bell housing, clutch, clutch slave, engine mounts, etc, etc, and added together, this more than outweighed the extra cost of buying a half cut over buying an engine alone.gurley0916;1709893 said:
Oh ok I understand that but it seems recently that front clips are almost non existent anymore. So if you buy the 1j out of a soarer and not out of a jza70 then you end up having to spend the same amount.
I agree if you can find a jza70 with tranny and your car is 89+ yes you are cheaper, but most people seem to go for the soarer engines cause of availability and in that case it will be the same as doing a 2j after all the swap parts. Guess it just depends on the car year and the type of 1j they want to get.
I agree if you can find a jza70 with tranny and your car is 89+ yes you are cheaper, but most people seem to go for the soarer engines cause of availability and in that case it will be the same as doing a 2j after all the swap parts. Guess it just depends on the car year and the type of 1j they want to get.
Agreed... finding a Supra front clip these days isn't as easy as it was 10 years ago. The community opinion of the cost just hasn't adapted yet.
PS: Where the heck is that shower gif of yours from?
PS: Where the heck is that shower gif of yours from?
GrimJack;1709883 said:Many? Have you looked at the 1/4 mile times thread in the racing section? http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?41973-***SM-member-1-4-mi.-times-list***
I count *one*.
Furthermore, drag racing isn't the best indicator anyway - unless you're building a drag car, of course. Real driving has things like getting on and off the throttle mid lap... and turning.
The last one I saw (1JZ) at my track tore it up with a 15.1 @ 110 with a GT40. No, seriously. Way to represent. :nono: And he had a 5 speed. It bogged really bad. Maybe he just needed Jay to show him how its done.
As much as that makes me giggle, that's probably just due to the usual 'Supra owners, as a rule, can't drag for shit' problem.Nick M;1709938 said: