Tail Lamp Failure Module Information

[3p141592654]

Note that the 0012 in the part number TC17G005AP-0012 specs the particular mask used to define the "programming" in the chip. Since that programming represent the customer's (Toyota) intellectual property, it is usually impossible to order the part directly. In any case, the technology used to make these chips (3um) is long dead. Nice trip down memory lane though.

 

[Kai]

If they're not at fault why would you swap them? As for buying new ones I think you're missing an obvious point: true gate arrays are not a form of field programmable logic. That's what makes them ASIC

Well, think about it this way, some OTHER component on the board has failed, or the PCB has had it, but the ASIC is fine....how about desoldering the ASIC and then putting it on a new PCB?

How does the circuit work as a whole, is there a schematic for it? Is there no way to replicate the function with 74 series logic chip?

I'm thinking out loud here

 

[Finnon]

Can anyone tell me why the cicuit board in the picture on page one is completely different to the 2 modules i have? Is the one pictured from a later car with the all in 1 rear lights? i can provide a picture if you guys want to compare

 

[Doward]

Please do!

 

[Finnon]

Please do!

ill post it up tomorrow as its gone midnight here. (ill have to learn how to use my new camera. 8.2 mega pixel for £50 asda (walmart) special)

bear in mind though. uk cars always had what you guys refer to as early rear lights. (ie 86-88 iirc)

im wondering if there is some differences in the setup of the lights.

 

[Kai]

Still waiting on the pictures Finfon

 

[CRE]

I've got a couple different ones from various Toyota makes and the common failure points do vary.

 

[Kai]

Steve over on the UK Mk3 site dug up another part number thats apparrently available in bulk, the Fujitsu MB4210 - he's dug up the datasheet which explains what logic gates are contained within - so potentially a replacement for the original ASIC?

See this datasheet here:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/DataBooks/Document262284.pdf

And here's where you get them from, apparrently:

http://www.sierraic.com/pnresults.asp?navpart=MB4210

 

[Kai]

Bump so it doesn't get lost pages back

 

[suprra_girl]

Well, you guys wanted pics of the "completely different" ones. So here's hoping it's the same as the previous poster, orrrrrr there's different ones again.

These are from japanese supras, what year they are from are unknown but I believe ours are all the same.

Two side by side

Left hand, note the water corrosion around the bottom, guessin that's why it's fubar

Right hand, I've noticed taking the pics that a blue resistor is fubar

Right hand on an angle showing fubar resistor

 

[Kai]

Excellent suze, thankies

Can you make out any of the markings on the two IC's?

 

[suprra_girl]

RH one in pic
Both IC chips have this number on them
#MB4210
8912 M26

LH one in pic
Right IC
#MB4210
8905 M22

Left IC
#MB4210
8903 M21

I can read most of it, anything else you need?

 

[Kai]

That should be it actually - looks like i'll bulk order a few MB4210's, and if thats not possible, then at least i have the datasheet as to how it works and what logic gates it has in it

 

[Kai]

I found the english language datasheet, it seems that it's a common part, made by numerous companies, all with identical functionality - the block diagram in this is far more understandable - CRE, get cracking - you figure out what's what and i'll build them!

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-16/DSA-311835.pdf

MB4210 = Made by Fujitsu
KIA4210SV = Made by Samsung/Korea Electronics
TC17G005AP-0012 = Made by Toshiba

I also sent off a request to digichip for 50 units of these, they show 600 or so in stock still.

 

[csr ma71]

http://www.supracentral.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=42

Page is no more. Does anyone have a saved copy of this page?

 

[csr ma71]

No wait, I found it through google cache by searching for "wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box":


Home arrow Technical Tips arrow 1986.5-1992 Supra arrow
Wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box
Wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box PDF Print
Written by Paul Schmutzler Jr.
Dec 15, 2004 at 04:00 AM

This will allow you re-wire your 1987 MKIII Supra so that you can throw away your lamp failure box which causes your brake lights to not work if it goes bad.

If the light on your dash that looks like your car is farting comes on, it means there is a problem with one or more of your lights in the rear assembly. First of all, check all of your lights to see if anything is not lighting up correctly. If they all check out, then double-check the bulbs to make sure they are intact. If you still see no problem, then you probably have a faulty lamp failure box.

I’ve been told by reliable sources that the soldering done by Toyota was pretty lousy. Over time, these boxes tend to fail - rendering your brake lights or other rear lights inoperable. The first option to fix this is as follows:

#1 – Remove the lamp failure box. It can be accessed through the driver’s side rear light assemble in your hatch. Pop off the access panel, and you’ll see a little, yellow, square, plastic box underneath the light assembly. It is attached to the body by a small bolt. Remove the bolt, and you can pull the box up for inspection. Unplug the pin connecter, and take it apart. I used a flat-head screwdriver to pry one side out. After that, it just came right apart. Inside, there is a small circuit board. You may see a solder that has become weak and broken over time. If so, resolder it carefully and try plugging the box back in. If it does not fix the problem, save yourself a headache and move to method number two.

#2 – Remove the lamp failure box (LFB). Throw it as far into nearby woods as possible. Retrieve your wiring tools (strippers, crimpers, and connectors). The most important thing to remember about this process is that you will not be cutting any wires that go directly into the light assembly (off-white connector). You will only be cutting wires that go to the LFB (blue connector). Cut the green w/white wire and the red w/blue wire. Splice them together. Now cut the solid green wire and splice it to the green w/red wire. Once again, none of these should be going to the light assembly. Only the ones that went to the LFB connector are spliced. There may be wires of the same colors going to the light assembly (off-white connector), but they are NOT the right wires!!

At this point, you should have fully functioning rear lights and no light on the dashboard. The only downside is that your vehicle will no longer notify you when you have a rear light out. Hey, we survived for how long on the roads without those boxes? I’m sure we can do it again now. Attached are some visual examples to aid you in identifying the correct wires to splice.




Ok, I figured it out except for how to make my spoiler light also come on along with the brakes. Does anyone know how to fix that?

 

[csr ma71]

Correction, I did the supracentral mod and with the post from I believe CRE from another thread, I spliced the red with white wire into one of the bundles to have all my tail lights work.

I also busted open my old TFB and an ant crawled out. Other than that, nothing was burned out.

 

[jetjock]

Too many antperes...

 

[Kai]

Thats just a horrible, horrible joke, JJ

Someone on XS Forums just designed a circuit that'll do the same job as the MB4210's on the board, using a PIC microcontroller and a few discrete's. Can someone take a closeup photo of the top and bottom of the PCB's so i can get a complete circuit diagram worked up?

And who's got a pinout of the unit?

 

[87supr@]

hey BIG thanks to you i have tried the bypass and works for me have completely unplug the LFB spliced the wiring to your specs and all is working including the center third brake light THANK YOU again im soooooo glad i joind these forums:love::love::biglaugh::drink1:::salute::

No wait, I found it through google cache by searching for "wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box":


Home arrow Technical Tips arrow 1986.5-1992 Supra arrow
Wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box
Wiring your MKIII Supra around the Lamp Failure Box PDF Print
Written by Paul Schmutzler Jr.
Dec 15, 2004 at 04:00 AM

This will allow you re-wire your 1987 MKIII Supra so that you can throw away your lamp failure box which causes your brake lights to not work if it goes bad.

If the light on your dash that looks like your car is farting comes on, it means there is a problem with one or more of your lights in the rear assembly. First of all, check all of your lights to see if anything is not lighting up correctly. If they all check out, then double-check the bulbs to make sure they are intact. If you still see no problem, then you probably have a faulty lamp failure box.

I’ve been told by reliable sources that the soldering done by Toyota was pretty lousy. Over time, these boxes tend to fail - rendering your brake lights or other rear lights inoperable. The first option to fix this is as follows:

#1 – Remove the lamp failure box. It can be accessed through the driver’s side rear light assemble in your hatch. Pop off the access panel, and you’ll see a little, yellow, square, plastic box underneath the light assembly. It is attached to the body by a small bolt. Remove the bolt, and you can pull the box up for inspection. Unplug the pin connecter, and take it apart. I used a flat-head screwdriver to pry one side out. After that, it just came right apart. Inside, there is a small circuit board. You may see a solder that has become weak and broken over time. If so, resolder it carefully and try plugging the box back in. If it does not fix the problem, save yourself a headache and move to method number two.

#2 – Remove the lamp failure box (LFB). Throw it as far into nearby woods as possible. Retrieve your wiring tools (strippers, crimpers, and connectors). The most important thing to remember about this process is that you will not be cutting any wires that go directly into the light assembly (off-white connector). You will only be cutting wires that go to the LFB (blue connector). Cut the green w/white wire and the red w/blue wire. Splice them together. Now cut the solid green wire and splice it to the green w/red wire. Once again, none of these should be going to the light assembly. Only the ones that went to the LFB connector are spliced. There may be wires of the same colors going to the light assembly (off-white connector), but they are NOT the right wires!!

At this point, you should have fully functioning rear lights and no light on the dashboard. The only downside is that your vehicle will no longer notify you when you have a rear light out. Hey, we survived for how long on the roads without those boxes? I’m sure we can do it again now. Attached are some visual examples to aid you in identifying the correct wires to splice.




Ok, I figured it out except for how to make my spoiler light also come on along with the brakes. Does anyone know how to fix that?