swaintech coated pistons

[Arther3]

look at these...

they look dirty but are actually clean (the pistons too)

had low oil pressure...then bolts holding the clutch fork snapped(trd pressure plate i think) and i couldnt drive until removing the engine to fix that so i just decided to do full rebuild. I will be removing the oil squirters, shimming the oil pump really thick (10mm) and leaving the oil cooler alone. i want the oil pressure too high if anything and then ill bleed any extra off with the oil cooler line.
also will be grinding the bottom of the saddles in an attempt to decrease my oil clearance in the cam journals.

any comments on any of this?

 

[spoolint78]

how much did it cost to coat the pistons?

 

[Disco Stu]

uh, please do not remove your oil squirters... that will completely negate the positive cooling effects of the ceramic coating you just spent alot of money on. BTW, high pressure does not mean that will will have good volume. Otherwise, good luck.

 

[Arther3]

actually, from thermodynamics, i can tell you that the mass flow rate of oil (which is the "volume" of oil) will only reach a certain point due to the small area of the oil clearances. this is how pressure is created, no more oil can flow through the the oil gap. its like blowing through a small coffee straw and then blowing through a large drinking straw. the small straw has a small amount of air blowing through it but you will blow with a large amount of pressure, while the large straw will have a lot of air blowing with little pressure on your part.

by maximizing the pressure, amongst other things, one can ensure that the maximum mass flow rate(volume) of oil possible will pass through the oil passages at all temps and conditions of teh oil.

as far as the oil squirters, many have removed with no problem. also, the rods have holes on them that allow oil to reach the piston bottom and cylinder walls. at a high enough pressure, the stream of oil from these holes will be at a maximum and shoot or spray further(like a water hose when you put your finger on the end to increase the pressure in the line)

also, P = f/a (lb/in'2) so with oil squirters, as the volume of oil the pump pushes out increases, the force increases, as the force increases, the squirters begin to open and the area in turn increases. the more force, the larger the area. while this is occuring, what is happenning to this ratio f/a ? while it may be increasing, it is not increasing as fast as if the area where constant. so your pressure does not increase at a constant rate as the load on the engine.

besides that, the springs wear out and they open early or get stuck open.

if you have any ACTUAL EXAMPLES of this being a problem PLEASE lmk.


the charge was 215 shipped back to me for the basic top thermal coating and the friction coating on the side skirts. this coating is not just a paint. it is actually pretty tough, meaning resealliant to scratching. the thermal barrier coating at top is the same.

 

[figgie]

actually, from thermodynamics, i can tell you that the mass flow rate of oil (which is the "volume" of oil) will only reach a certain point due to the small area of the oil clearances. this is how pressure is created, no more oil can flow through the the oil gap. its like blowing through a small coffee straw and then blowing through a large drinking straw. the small straw has a small amount of air blowing through it but you will blow with a large amount of pressure, while the large straw will have a lot of air blowing with little pressure on your part.

by maximizing the pressure, amongst other things, one can ensure that the maximum mass flow rate(volume) of oil possible will pass through the oil passages at all temps and conditions of teh oil.

as far as the oil squirters, many have removed with no problem. also, the rods have holes on them that allow oil to reach the piston bottom and cylinder walls. at a high enough pressure, the stream of oil from these holes will be at a maximum and shoot or spray further(like a water hose when you put your finger on the end to increase the pressure in the line)

also, P = f/a (lb/in'2) so with oil squirters, as the volume of oil the pump pushes out increases, the force increases, as the force increases, the squirters begin to open and the area in turn increases. the more force, the larger the area. while this is occuring, what is happenning to this ratio f/a ? while it may be increasing, it is not increasing as fast as if the area where constant. so your pressure does not increase at a constant rate as the load on the engine.

besides that, the springs wear out and they open early or get stuck open.

if you have any ACTUAL EXAMPLES of this being a problem PLEASE lmk.


the charge was 215 shipped back to me for the basic top thermal coating and the friction coating on the side skirts. this coating is not just a paint. it is actually pretty tough, meaning resealliant to scratching. the thermal barrier coating at top is the same.

Thermodynamics??

dude this shit falls under basic physics and under two specific theorems.. Boyle's law and Bernulli's priniciple. Thermodynamics, only when meauring energy transfer.

as for your example... actually oil will flow more at higher pressure as long as the carrier (the straw) can handle the added pressure. Oil WILL still flow and more of it. But increase in flow is not proportional to the pressure. it becomes and exponential curve at a point that pressure increase while flow decreases (see Bernulli's principle as to why).

 

[Arther3]

you really dont know what you are talking about:


1. dont curse at me
2. thermodynamics ( thermo= heat dynamics = changes) not energy transfer
3. bernoulli's principle applies to flow correct but flow is the VELOCITY in bernoulli's principle. the principle states that the velocity increases as it passes through a small area and that the pressure decreases. this decrease in pressure is after passing through the small area.(why the oil drains to the pan instead of gushing)

4.i stated that the mass flow rate of oil(volume of oil) reaches a certain point where it cannot increase any more. this is due to the density of oil and the smaller area of the oil clearances.

5.the first is an exponential curve not the second. if the pressure is the left axis and the volume(or in your case velocity) is the bottom axis, then as the pressure increases how can the volume of oil decrease as in the second graph. if it does it is only a small amount of decrease at extreme pressure due to swirling of the oil or some molecular behavior such as this.

 

[Disco Stu]

I do not know of any problems that people have had with removing their oil squirters because I know noone that has done so. I believe that they are an integral part of any good turbocharged engine and are neccessary to proper cooling, but you may do whatever you want. I know that people ragged on me for choosing to run 9.2:1 compression on a turbo car but I like it. However, I still think you are making a mistake in an effort to try to make bearing failure less probable - it can be done as effectively with less extreme measures. As stated earlier: good luck, and let me know when you get to the dyno to base line it.

 

[figgie]

you really dont know what you are talking about:


1. dont curse at me
2. thermodynamics ( thermo= heat dynamics = changes) not energy transfer
3. bernoulli's principle applies to flow correct but flow is the VELOCITY in bernoulli's principle. the principle states that the velocity increases as it passes through a small area and that the pressure decreases. this decrease in pressure is after passing through the small area.(why the oil drains to the pan instead of gushing)

4.i stated that the mass flow rate of oil(volume of oil) reaches a certain point where it cannot increase any more. this is due to the density of oil and the smaller area of the oil clearances.

5.the first is an exponential curve not the second. if the pressure is the left axis and the volume(or in your case velocity) is the bottom axis, then as the pressure increases how can the volume of oil decrease as in the second graph. if it does it is only a small amount of decrease at extreme pressure due to swirling of the oil or some molecular behavior such as this. http://www.memphisracingscene.com/pp/data/692/pic.jpg

son talk about not knowing shit.... you are defenitly an A+ student in the "not knowing shit" assignment

[class in session]


thermodynamics deals with energy transfers AND tempratures you numnuts... or should i slap the living hell out of you with entropy?
Oh wait no I already transferred to much of my energy to this keyboard to explain thermodynmics to your uneducated mind. Seriously.. wtf.

drains and not gushes... geezes christ. so let me guess the oil above the hole is not causing pressure to be exherted on the oil as it comes out.. no it just MAGICALLY comesout (damn more entropy).

as pressure increase and the area that it (being the oil) stays contant, then volume has NO CHOICE BUT TO DECREASE!. Otherwise there would be no pressure.

see ALL FUEL PUMPS for said EXAMPLE.

here seeing as you like graphs.

http://www.weldonracing.com/16000a_chart.html

well holy fucking dog shit

wow... look at that.. pressure rises VOLUME decreases.. NO WAY!!!

and btw.. do a search on logarithmic graphs and get back to me on your cool 2nd picture....

[/class dismissed]

p.s: my suggestion go back to physical science and learn the difference between Physics branches before spouting off non-sense. I have absolutley zero tolerance for stupid people like yourself trying to give "information" they are pulling out of thier ass.

 

[Arther3]

thanks for both of your positive posts...

I searched the forum and found a few people who have done it. i also talked to a guy who owns a race shop for dsm's and he says he never uses oil squirters on his drag cars with 4g63 engines. nor does anyone he knows. i think that 9.2:1 is not a bad c/r if properly tuned and properly boosted. and thanks again.

 

[figgie]

you are quite welcomed.. but my suggestion for next time. There are alot of folks (to include myself) that are extremely well versed in alot of science branches.

what this means to you is that if you don't spew out facts you WILL get called on it.. So i suggest you come in here with facts and not some of the wall theory.

 

[figgie]

thanks for both of your positive posts...

I searched the forum and found a few people who have done it. i also talked to a guy who owns a race shop for dsm's and he says he never uses oil squirters on his drag cars with 4g63 engines. nor does anyone he knows. i think that 9.2:1 is not a bad c/r if properly tuned and properly boosted. and thanks again.

last i checked 4g63 never had oil squirters.

neither did the 2jz

or a chevy 350

ford 302.

but last i checked niether of the engines mentioned are a 7m-GTE engine either.

 

[Arther3]

i dont know what those are graphs of, but the blue one proofs my point except for the fact that it is linear and not exponential. the two lines are two seperate graphs. the blue one, the pressure increases as the volume flow rate of oil increases(as i said) the red one is the opposite.

neither one really supports either of us because they are both linear.

if a flame war you want, you will not find it here. I have gained no signs of intelligence in you from our conversation and will end it from my end from this point on. nor will i read any posts you make, but you can make one if you insist on having the last word in your immaturity, GOODBYE.

 

[figgie]

i dont know what those are graphs of, but the blue one proofs my point except for the fact that it is linear and not exponential. the two lines are two seperate graphs. the blue one, the pressure increases as the volume flow rate of oil increases(as i said) the red one is the opposite.

neither one really supports either of us because they are both linear.

if a flame war you want, you will not find it here. I have gained no signs of intelligence in you from our conversation and will end it from my end from this point on. nor will i read any posts you make, but you can make one if you insist on having the last word in your immaturity, GOODBYE.

taking what you said as it's face value

the blue curve..reads 2 GPM at 0 psi... and climbs all the way up to 8 gpM at 120 psi..... excuse me.. HAAAAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHAA

BWAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. omg.. ok ok i give up!

You win!! aahaahahahahahah

http://www.weldonracing.com/d2345_chart.html

wow look at the GPH go up as pressure increases!!!!

ROFLMAO

i am done here. :bigthumb:

 

[Arther3]

the turbo eclipse has oil squirters. i have seen with "me own eyes"!! i dont know if 4g63 is just used for the na block or if there is a t in it somewhere or something for the turbo block. but the turbo block has got oil squirters.

 

[IJ.]

On a more practical note you might find a 10mm shim in the pump will go close to coil binding it or reduce it's travel enough to give you uncontrolled pressure spikes.

 

[Arther3]

you are quite welcomed..

i was talking to discostu...

friggie,
at first you said....

actually oil will flow more at higher pressure as long as the carrier (the straw) can handle the added pressure. Oil WILL still flow and more of it. But increase in flow is not proportional to the pressure.


and i agree totally to that, that is exactly what i was trying to say.

but then you say...

wow... look at that.. pressure rises VOLUME decreases.. NO WAY!!!


so which is it you lying sack of shit!

 

[Arther3]

and about this...

"thermodynamics deals with energy transfers AND tempratures you numnuts... or should i slap the living hell out of you with entropy?
Oh wait no I already transferred to much of my energy to this keyboard to explain thermodynmics to your uneducated mind. Seriously.. wtf."

i did not say it does not deal with energy transfers...i am only saying that the basis in thermodynamics is the effect of temp changes in substances...theyre are also pressure changes and volume changes involved. and as i said, theyre are mass flow rates involved. the first law of thermodynamics has mass flows in it...

http://www.engineersedge.com/thermodynamics/first_law.htm

so all i was saying is that mass flows are INVOLVED in thermo, not the entire basis of thermo. get a grip.

 

[Arther3]

i have been a supra owner since 1998, my dad is an mkii 1st owner. i did not just start messin with this crap. moderator or not, you need to cool it with me dude.

even if you do feel beyond a shadow of a doubt that i am completely wrong, it gives you no right to reply with the attitude that you did... and i greatly dont appreciate it.

 

[figgie]

ahh poor widdle baby......

silly me.. i forgot always write to a lowest common denominator.. sorry about writing so 10th grader Arther3.. for you I will lower it to kindergarden level so you can understand.

funny that all you have done is cry but yet i showed you the relation of pressure to volume.. but yet you don't get it. I picture is worth a 1000 words but for an idiot to understand.. not enough words in the english language to help the idiot understand...

btw... :bigthumb: you go and flex the inet muscle elsewhere boy.

psst: first law of thermo. energy can niether be created nor destoyed Flow is kinetic energy durrr :weak:?

so again we go back to the you are full of shit part.. so please as they say...kid ya botha me!! seeing as you actually came back here that means i mean something to you.. how special!!! me on the other hand.. i am actaully out of this thread... the steaming pile of shit that you are spewing.. i myself don't want to drown in it.. have fun

 

[Arther3]

friggie,
at first you said....

actually oil will flow more at higher pressure as long as the carrier (the straw) can handle the added pressure. Oil WILL still flow and more of it. But increase in flow is not proportional to the pressure.


and i agree totally to that, that is exactly what i was trying to say.

but then you say...

wow... look at that.. pressure rises VOLUME decreases.. NO WAY!!!


so which is it you lying sack of shit!

i dont see anything that says im crying. you're rebuttle did NOTHING to disprove the fact that YOUR full of shit and a disgrace as a moderator.

and by the way, "flow is kinetic energy",


"The forms of energy that may cross the control volume boundary include those associated with the mass (m) crossing the boundary. Mass in motion has potential (PE), kinetic (KE), and internal energy (U). In addition, since the flow is normally supplied with some driving power (a pump for example), there is another form of energy associated with the fluid caused by its pressure. This form of energy is referred to as flow energy (Pv-work). The thermodynamic terms thus representing the various forms of energy crossing the control boundary with the mass are given as m (u + Pv + ke + pe)."

the only reason i am replying back is so that anyone who reads this thread will be able to tell for themselves how uninformed you are.