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swaintech coated pistons
- Thread starter Arther3
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Slow Poopra 7MGTE
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its not loading i'll look tomorrow, if anything early 6 bolt 4g63s def dont have them because my 90 doesnt and neither does a couple of my friends, maybe the 93 and up 7 bolt 4g63 junk motor does
Actually, I have one of these in my garage right now, and it definitely HAS oil squirters.Slow Poopra 7MGTE said:
It's a 6 bolt, too. It's my understanding that the 6 bolt Turbo 4g63 has them, and the N/T does not - as soon as you move to the junk 7 bolt engine, none of them have 'em.Oh, and on another note... Arthur3, figgie, back off, both of you. Take a deep breath, calm down, and agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion (and theories on oil flow).
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
Me four, and I never would have known Arther was working on one.
You should have mentioned 'fluid mechanics' when relating pressure to flow rate in a system, not 'thermodynamics'. Sounds like you are spouting off tid bits of knowledge to look smart.
You should have mentioned 'fluid mechanics' when relating pressure to flow rate in a system, not 'thermodynamics'. Sounds like you are spouting off tid bits of knowledge to look smart.
By the way... not to ressurect the arguement, but the JDM turbo engines did not all have squirters. IIRC, Suze's doesn't, for example.
A couple other things... it's my personal opinion that virtually all cases of rod knock come from oil starvation from two things - low oil or plugged oil passages. Furthermore, based on the fact that your oil pressure increases with RPM increase, I'd say it's rather obvious that our engines cannot outflow our pumps. The stock, unshimmed pump has been used in virtually every high horsepower 7M to date, with no failures that I am aware of.
And Arthur3, I don't understand the bit about squirters that 'open' under pressure... can you explain? There were no moving parts in mine, I was under the impression that they were open all the time.
A couple other things... it's my personal opinion that virtually all cases of rod knock come from oil starvation from two things - low oil or plugged oil passages. Furthermore, based on the fact that your oil pressure increases with RPM increase, I'd say it's rather obvious that our engines cannot outflow our pumps. The stock, unshimmed pump has been used in virtually every high horsepower 7M to date, with no failures that I am aware of.
And Arthur3, I don't understand the bit about squirters that 'open' under pressure... can you explain? There were no moving parts in mine, I was under the impression that they were open all the time.
Grim, Our squirters are a sring loaded check valve banjo bolt. The banjo bolt's check valve should open at roughly 20 psi to squirt oil. at idle, when pressure is around 10 psi in most 7ms, the squirters are closed. When the banjos get crud in them, they stick open. I highly recomend replacing or refurbishing your squirters when you do a rebuild. At least 2 have been stuck open in EVERY one of 6 rebuilds I have done on a 7m.
6 bolt dsm blocks have an orifice oil squirter. Flow through the oricice is proportional to flow, so they squirt a little at idle, and they squirt a lot when pressure and flow rises. Yes, pressure and flow rise until the motor is acually "using up" all the oil, then the pressure would drop. Never seen a motor outflow its oil pump. both the 6-bolt and the 7m feed the squirters off the main galley.
7 bolt "crap" blocks have spring loaded squirters much like the 7m. They are fed off of each of the main bearing bores, and should be closed at idle. The reason that the 7-bolt sucks so, is that these oil squirters rob oil from the main bearing, and thus remove oil pressureinside of the crankshaft. With little pressure or flow in the crank, the thrust washers don't get oiled properly, and the rod bearings also suffer. When you upgrade to a 3,600 lb pressure plate and sit on the clutch pedal at idle, especially with leaky squirters, the crank "walks" into an unlubed thrust washer, and then the motor self destructs. That's why people hate 7 bolts. Many shops plug the 7-bolt oil squirter holes and install 6-bolt squirters to rid the motor of crank walk.
I am NOT spouting Schyte. Do a search and read for yourself.
Arther, I agree that thermodynamics has little to do with fluid flow, but heat transfer. I just went over the first law yesterday, and it is a little out of place in this context. Fluid dynamics, which folow similar principals would have been the better choice to throw around.
Good luck on your degree. Replace the squirters, run a good filter, get the best from both worlds. I was going to remove them, but as long as they are closed at idle, you will be fine.
Just my 6.782 psi.
-Jake
6 bolt dsm blocks have an orifice oil squirter. Flow through the oricice is proportional to flow, so they squirt a little at idle, and they squirt a lot when pressure and flow rises. Yes, pressure and flow rise until the motor is acually "using up" all the oil, then the pressure would drop. Never seen a motor outflow its oil pump. both the 6-bolt and the 7m feed the squirters off the main galley.
7 bolt "crap" blocks have spring loaded squirters much like the 7m. They are fed off of each of the main bearing bores, and should be closed at idle. The reason that the 7-bolt sucks so, is that these oil squirters rob oil from the main bearing, and thus remove oil pressureinside of the crankshaft. With little pressure or flow in the crank, the thrust washers don't get oiled properly, and the rod bearings also suffer. When you upgrade to a 3,600 lb pressure plate and sit on the clutch pedal at idle, especially with leaky squirters, the crank "walks" into an unlubed thrust washer, and then the motor self destructs. That's why people hate 7 bolts. Many shops plug the 7-bolt oil squirter holes and install 6-bolt squirters to rid the motor of crank walk.
I am NOT spouting Schyte. Do a search and read for yourself.
Arther, I agree that thermodynamics has little to do with fluid flow, but heat transfer. I just went over the first law yesterday, and it is a little out of place in this context. Fluid dynamics, which folow similar principals would have been the better choice to throw around.
Good luck on your degree. Replace the squirters, run a good filter, get the best from both worlds. I was going to remove them, but as long as they are closed at idle, you will be fine.
Just my 6.782 psi.
-Jake
Here come the big guns!
IHI-RHC7 - I'll be damned, you learn something new every day! Thanks for the information.
IHI-RHC7 - I'll be damned, you learn something new every day! Thanks for the information.
The rebuild is pretty awesome - still running off the wastegate spring so far, no boost controller yet. I'm pretty sure that the turbo is a 60-1, it looks like the photos posted over on SM, same number of blades on the compressor side, and the walls on the housing are awfully thin.
In any case, it pulls hard, the oil has stayed a nice clear golden color since the last oil change I did, and the coolant level hasn't changed at all. I've been running it very rich for the break in period, but shortly I'll hookup with a buddy with a wideband and do some tuning, then put the boost controller back in.
In any case, it pulls hard, the oil has stayed a nice clear golden color since the last oil change I did, and the coolant level hasn't changed at all. I've been running it very rich for the break in period, but shortly I'll hookup with a buddy with a wideband and do some tuning, then put the boost controller back in.
The 7M takes a Belt and Braces approach as the Rods have squirters as well for Cylinder Thrust side lubrication!
Once you add it all in multiple squirters the Turbo and the badly designed stock Cooler circuit you can run into volume issues and lower than ideal pressures!
I use the NA Filter Stud and a Temp based Cooler circuit don't have the Rod squirters in the new Rods so the GTE block was an important addition for it's squirters.(I also use a 3qt accumulator just in case)
I've been following a thread over on SF and there seems to be some confusion about NA v's GTE pumps, The original pumps were different with the GTE pump having longer gears for more volume but now Toyota have discontinued the NA Pump and are supplying the GTE one for all 7M's.
Once you add it all in multiple squirters the Turbo and the badly designed stock Cooler circuit you can run into volume issues and lower than ideal pressures!
I use the NA Filter Stud and a Temp based Cooler circuit don't have the Rod squirters in the new Rods so the GTE block was an important addition for it's squirters.(I also use a 3qt accumulator just in case)
I've been following a thread over on SF and there seems to be some confusion about NA v's GTE pumps, The original pumps were different with the GTE pump having longer gears for more volume but now Toyota have discontinued the NA Pump and are supplying the GTE one for all 7M's.
Jake: I'm using a Crank Scraper in the new Motor so without the squirters I'd end up killing the thrust side of the pistons with no Rod holes so the Block squirters are really important for me ! (3.5K important)......
! (3.5K important)......mullenc525 said:
i have not taken fluids yet so i only have what i got from thermo to base my knowledge off of.
And if i came across as being a know it all, im sorry. I only wanted to express what my thoughts were. I was looking for other peoples opinions but i did not appreciate the way that guy attacked me like that. i assure you though, he would not do that in public. so he has to have someplace to treat other people the way he gets treated in the real world.
i make it my policy to be open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
IHI-RHC7 said:
yeah, i NEVER said that thermo had COMPLETELY to do with anything. i brought up the first law only to show that mass flow rates are a PART of thermodynamics.
figgie said that i said it was about flows but i never did. somehow he misinterpreted what i wrote, but i think what i said was that from thermo i can tell you that p=f/area . did they not teach that at all in your thermo class? and sure it falls under fluids. but thats not the point i was making.
my point is that increasing the pressure increases the mass of oil which flows through the oil passages and therefore increases the volume of oil that flows through them. that is until you reach a point where no more volume of oil can enter because of the area of the openings.
so with a high pressure one can be certain that the most oil possible is going through those openings.
am i the only one this makes sense to? or am i wrong about something?
feel free to tell me, without calling me stupid or numbnuts, or any other library of immature derogatory statements that i havent heard since elementary school.